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Old
07-02-2010, 10:18 AM
  #26
triggrman
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How many of you guys actually think we're a better team right now then we were last season?

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07-02-2010, 10:20 AM
  #27
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11th in 5on5 scoring
10th in 4on4 scoring
10th in overall ES scoring
t-5th in 5on3 scoring
t-4th in 4on3 scoring

29th in 5on4 scoring


Rather than examine why there is one situation we're not well within the top half of the league in scoring, let's just continue with the lie that the team couldn't score at all. Simplicity.

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07-02-2010, 10:23 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
How many of you guys actually think we're a better team right now then we were last season?
A push right now. Arnott missed another 1/4 of the season last year .. so we've seen that this team can survive without him.

The big questions are can Wilson step up his play, will Hornqvist and Rinne have a similar season, and can Parent stay healthy.

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07-02-2010, 10:26 AM
  #29
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How many of you guys actually think we're a better team right now then we were last season?
I do for numerous reasons, but the biggest is Rinne.

Last year, he couldn't get a groove going becuase he was rotating around with Ellis. This year, its all him. I have a very good feeling about that.

Colin Wilson will be a monster too. He'll be a year older and a year better, not to mention a full season with talented line mates.

Our D Prospects finally have a chance to prove themselves, and I think the competition will bring out the best in all of them. I expect numerous guys to step up and fight for those bottom 2 spots.

Just becuase we didn't sign anyone doesnt mean we arent better. I have faith that our guys will step up. Faith that SK will work out. Faith that Legwand wont suck. Faith that Rinne is a top 10 goalie in the league. I think we'll make the playoffs easily.

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07-02-2010, 10:26 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
A push right now. Arnott missed another 1/4 of the season last year .. so we've seen that this team can survive without him.

The big questions are can Wilson step up his play, will Hornqvist and Rinne have a similar season, and can Parent stay healthy.
Those are some pretty big if's.

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07-02-2010, 10:27 AM
  #31
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I do for numerous reasons, but the biggest is Rinne.

Last year, he couldn't get a groove going becuase he was rotating around with Ellis. This year, its all him. I have a very good feeling about that.

Colin Wilson will be a monster too. He'll be a year older and a year better, not to mention a full season with talented line mates.

Our D Prospects finally have a chance to prove themselves, and I think the competition will bring out the best in all of them. I expect numerous guys to step up and fight for those bottom 2 spots.

Just becuase we didn't sign anyone doesnt mean we arent better. I have faith that our guys will step up. Faith that SK will work out. Faith that Legwand wont suck. Faith that Rinne is a top 10 goalie in the league. I think we'll make the playoffs easily.
I will take that bet.

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07-02-2010, 10:30 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
11th in 5on5 scoring
10th in 4on4 scoring
10th in overall ES scoring
t-5th in 5on3 scoring
t-4th in 4on3 scoring

29th in 5on4 scoring


Rather than examine why there is one situation we're not well within the top half of the league in scoring, let's just continue with the lie that the team couldn't score at all. Simplicity.
How often does a team play at 5 on 3 and 4 on 3? 1% of the time at most?

Last year, we were 18th overall is Goals per game. That's mediocre-- just like finishing 14th in the league. We also had one of the highest scoring defenses, which is nice. But when you take away goals by defenseman, we had one of the lowest scoring forward corps. And we traded away our most consistent goal scorer. I'm felt it was time for Arnott to move on, but I'm not confident that Kosisyten is gonna bust out for 40 goals and solve our forward scoring woes.

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07-02-2010, 10:31 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
11th in 5on5 scoring
10th in 4on4 scoring
10th in overall ES scoring
t-5th in 5on3 scoring
t-4th in 4on3 scoring

29th in 5on4 scoring


Rather than examine why there is one situation we're not well within the top half of the league in scoring, let's just continue with the lie that the team couldn't score at all. Simplicity.
Maybe getting Arnott off the powerplay will help, I really have no idea. We've never had a good powerplay but last year was unreasonable bad. That's something Trotz needs to address.

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07-02-2010, 10:35 AM
  #34
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How often does a team play at 5 on 3 and 4 on 3? 1% of the time at most?

Last year, we were 18th overall is Goals per game. That's mediocre-- just like finishing 14th in the league. We also had one of the highest scoring defenses, which is nice. But when you take away goals by defenseman, we had one of the lowest scoring forward corps. And we traded away our most consistent goal scorer. I'm felt it was time for Arnott to move on, but I'm not confident that Kosisyten is gonna bust out for 40 goals and solve our forward scoring woes.
End of the day the scoreboard doesn't really care where the goals came from.

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07-02-2010, 10:42 AM
  #35
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Those are some pretty big if's.
Calculated risks.

There is one big if on the FA market ..... that is if a team with Kovi can succeed .... hasn't happened yet

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07-02-2010, 10:46 AM
  #36
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I will take that bet.
Ok Jonas Brother X

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07-02-2010, 10:49 AM
  #37
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Do you know when I will panic? When the Preds start spending stupid money to make the roster better. Stupid money tells me they are out the door. The signings and trades show a preservation of capital, which means the team is staying. That means a hell of a lot more to me than winning.

Deal with it, this team is the Florida Marlins of the NHL. If you don't have the stomach to deal with a lack of spending the Rangers are always looking for fans but they usually suck worse than the Preds. Poile and co. do it right, that's why teams are consistently poaching managerial talent from them.

The nature of this group is very cyclical and the definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting a different result.
BFC. You have a lot of great things you contribute to discussions at this site. That said, the above quote is full of ****.

The Nashville Predators can field a team with a $6+ million sniper next season on their budget. It requires trading Dumont (or another player at that salary range), but it can be done. Putting aside Kessel's desire to play in Toronto for a moment, David Poile got to within $500,000 or so of the asking price. You kidding me? Drop a Cal O'Reilly-like salary and sign him already! (Again, putting aside the player's desire to play in Toronto.)

Nashville has spent (and is spending) their fair share of "stupid money" too. Erat will be paid $6 million actual dollars next year, and will be paid just under that this year. How much is Semin being paid this year? $6 million.

It's not the budget that's the primary restraint for the Predators. It's David Poile's philosophy to this point- build a team that has good to great depth with no one capable of taking it to the next level. Try it year after year. What was that definition of insanity in your post? Right.

Poile came right out and said he'd rather have a 20 goal all-around player than a 40+ goal offensive savant. That's nuts. I'd get the savant and surround him with as many of those great "role" players (at more reasonable rates than the Predators have done to this point) as possible.

Poile and company do many things right, but an unwillingness to continually adapt their strategies to their restrictions is not doing it right. It goes back to that definition of insanity.

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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
This year, I'm not worried about locking up casual fan. I'm worried about locking up corporate fan. The flooding will hurt the casual fan and solidifying the corporate base will be the most important thing for this year to prepare for next year. The year that both the NFL and NBA are looking to lock-out strike. Tell me, what is casual fan going to do with zero NFL and Zero NBA games on the tv? What are they going to do when the only game in town is the NHL? (Pro. wise) Casual fan will come back in 2 years.
In Tennessee, they'll focus more energy on college sports.

Corporate support does not just magically appear, nor does it come just by continually knocking on their door. Corporations lend their support to sports entities due to the likely advertising they get, or ability to provide perks to clients, etc. All that either requires someone to actually see the advertising or the desire of a client to want to see the Predators.

A good way to kill both the casual fan and the corporate support is to gut the team (or appear to gut the team). For reference, see your Florida Marlins.

101st, you're correct that paid attendance has increased since the new ownership took over. Of course, that's just throwing out statistics while ignoring the context of the situation. Prior to the end of the post-season, the perception (and reality) was that the Predators were continually building their roster- mainly around a couple of young superstars on defense.

Since then, the perception is that the Predators are dumping salary to go cheaper (while no one has established whether the team actually lost money yet). The perception is that they are going to be in decline next season- driving down the buzz (likely true if the roster remains as-is). The Predators are also on the cusp of having to re-sign those two superstars. We've all been around enough to know that a professional athlete (in general) wants to compete and win. At current course, do you see a reason for Weber or Suter to stay in Nashville? I don't.

Now...

I'm not ready to throw Poile under a bus. There's still lots of time and players that can improve this roster and at least show an attempt at following through on his proclamations following the loss to Chicago. Frankly, I've generally liked what I've seen to this point. I just think there's still a lot of work to do.

I agree with most everyone that I really didn't want any of those players that signed contracts yesterday.

If, come training camp time, Poile has not significantly improved this roster, I'll join that chorus of dissent. It's not because I disagree with building a team on a budget, it's that I disagree with his philosophy on building a team on a budget- or more accurately his apparent lack of trying another philosophy when one proves stagnant. Keep in mind that I predicted the Predators to earn 96pts and the sixth seed going into last season (the blog is still there). This upcoming season (at this moment in time)? There are too many questions. Too much reliance on unproven forwards combined with too much change on the defense (and increased youth). Right now, I think they drop to about 10th- well out of the race by trade deadline time.

In the mean time, I certainly understand trigg's and other's consternation. They certainly have every right to be disgruntled as they've seen nothing in the past to make them feel that this team will improve.


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Old
07-02-2010, 10:56 AM
  #38
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How often does a team play at 5 on 3 and 4 on 3? 1% of the time at most?

Last year, we were 18th overall is Goals per game. That's mediocre-- just like finishing 14th in the league. We also had one of the highest scoring defenses, which is nice. But when you take away goals by defenseman, we had one of the lowest scoring forward corps. And we traded away our most consistent goal scorer. I'm felt it was time for Arnott to move on, but I'm not confident that Kosisyten is gonna bust out for 40 goals and solve our forward scoring woes.
Yet again .. the lack of scoring by forwards goes to poor play in one situation .... 5on4.

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Old
07-02-2010, 11:01 AM
  #39
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Yet again .. the lack of scoring by forwards goes to poor play in one situation .... 5on4.
In fairness, in this day and age, a significant amount of success for a team is how well they convert PP opportunities and kill penalties.

On the surface, do you feel Nashville will improve either of those areas with the moves made to this point?

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07-02-2010, 11:07 AM
  #40
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BFC. You have a lot of great things you contribute to discussions at this site. That said, the above quote is full of ****.

The Nashville Predators can field a team with a $6+ million sniper next season on their budget. It requires trading Dumont (or another player at that salary range), but it can be done. Putting aside Kessel's desire to play in Toronto for a moment, David Poile got to within $500,000 or so of the asking price. You kidding me? Drop a Cal O'Reilly-like salary and sign him already! (Again, putting aside the player's desire to play in Toronto.)

Nashville has spent (and is spending) their fair share of "stupid money" too. Erat will be paid $6 million actual dollars next year, and will be paid just under that this year. How much is Semin being paid this year? $6 million.

It's not the budget that's the primary restraint for the Predators. It's David Poile's philosophy to this point- build a team that has good to great depth with no one capable of taking it to the next level. Try it year after year. What was that definition of insanity in your post? Right.

Poile came right out and said he'd rather have a 20 goal all-around player than a 40+ goal offensive savant. That's nuts. I'd get the savant and surround him with as many of those great "role" players (at more reasonable rates than the Predators have done to this point) as possible.

Poile and company do many things right, but an unwillingness to continually adapt their strategies to their restrictions is not doing it right. It goes back to that definition of insanity.



In Tennessee, they'll focus more energy on college sports.

Corporate support does not just magically appear, nor does it come just by continually knocking on their door. Corporations lend their support to sports entities due to the likely advertising they get, or ability to provide perks to clients, etc. All that either requires someone to actually see the advertising or the desire of a client to want to see the Predators.

A good way to kill both the casual fan and the corporate support is to gut the team (or appear to gut the team). For reference, see your Florida Marlins.

101st, you're correct that paid attendance has increased since the new ownership took over. Of course, that's just throwing out statistics while ignoring the context of the situation. Prior to the end of the post-season, the perception (and reality) was that the Predators were continually building their roster- mainly around a couple of young superstars on defense.

Since then, the perception is that the Predators are dumping salary to go cheaper (while no one has established whether the team actually lost money yet). The perception is that they are going to be in decline next season- driving down the buzz (likely true if the roster remains as-is). The Predators are also on the cusp of having to re-sign those two superstars. We've all been around enough to know that a professional athlete (in general) wants to compete and win. At current course, do you see a reason for Weber or Suter to stay in Nashville? I don't.

Now...

I'm not ready to throw Poile under a bus. There's still lots of time and players that can improve this roster and at least show an attempt at following through on his proclamations following the loss to Chicago. Frankly, I've generally liked what I've seen to this point. I just think there's still a lot of work to do.

I agree with most everyone that I really didn't want any of those players that signed contracts yesterday.

If, come training camp time, Poile has not significantly improved this roster, I'll join that chorus of dissent. It's not because I disagree with building a team on a budget, it's that I disagree with his philosophy on building a team on a budget- or more accurately his apparent lack of trying another philosophy when one proves stagnant. Keep in mind that I predicted the Predators to earn 96pts and the sixth seed going into last season (the blog is still there). This upcoming season (at this moment in time)? There are too many questions. Too much reliance on unproven forwards combined with too much change on the defense (and increased youth). Right now, I think they drop to about 10th- well out of the race by trade deadline time.

In the mean time, I certainly understand trigg's and other's consternation. They certainly have every right to be disgruntled as they've seen nothing in the past to make them feel that this team will improve.
How well has building around a goal scoring savant worked for Atlanta (Kovi), Columbus (Nash), NYR (Gaborik), Tampa (Stamkos)?

I also could have sworn that a team with Ovie, Green, Backstrom, Knuble, and Semin got bounced in the first round last season ... the same as us ... four forwards with 29 goals or more ... one and done.

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07-02-2010, 11:13 AM
  #41
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In fairness, in this day and age, a significant amount of success for a team is how well they convert PP opportunities and kill penalties.

On the surface, do you feel Nashville will improve either of those areas with the moves made to this point?
Moving Hamhuis and Arnott forces the staff to address those situations. Last season we kept putting the ineffectual pairing of Klein and Hamhius on the PK .... and it dropped from a top ten % to a bottom three.

The PP has suffered since midway through 06-07. Arnott was our #1 PP TOI forward. Trotz failed to give Hornqvist significant time and while Jones was here he had some of the best goals / PP TOI numbers on the team ... when he sniffed the ice with the man advantage. Sully on the point didn't work.

All of the complaining that the coaches can't coach special teams overlooks the fact that these very same coaches have managed to get this team to top 5-10 special team rankings. Lately, they've seemed complacent and put players on on special teams based more on seniority and reputation than on performance.

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07-02-2010, 11:33 AM
  #42
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Im with Trigg on this one.

If you think this team is better than last years thenI dontknow what to say. Our top line center is scheduledto attend our Prospects campfor crying outloud.

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07-02-2010, 11:35 AM
  #43
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How well has building around a goal scoring savant worked for Atlanta (Kovi), Columbus (Nash), NYR (Gaborik), Tampa (Stamkos)?

I also could have sworn that a team with Ovie, Green, Backstrom, Knuble, and Semin got bounced in the first round last season ... the same as us ... four forwards with 29 goals or more ... one and done.
Fair points. However...

Let's replace Dumont with each person you mentioned in the first paragraph. I would consider the forward talent around that player to be much better in Nashville with the possible exception of Stamkos (and Tampa had a load of other issues).

There are a myriad of reasons for losing a series. Building a team isn't an easy job either, or everyone could do it. There has to be a right mix everywhere on the team.

Washington could not cope with Montreal's defense. I'd probably argue that they relied too much on those flashy scorers and needed more defensive play and something from their role players.

We can do this all day (go round and round).

Doesn't change the fact that the philosophy shown to this point in time has been consistent as has been the results.

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07-02-2010, 11:37 AM
  #44
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Moving Hamhuis and Arnott forces the staff to address those situations.
Quite frankly, if the results couldn't speak for themselves in terms of needing addressing, the Predators have a completely different issue.

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07-02-2010, 11:39 AM
  #45
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Im with Trigg on this one.

If you think this team is better than last years thenI dontknow what to say. Our top line center is scheduledto attend our Prospects campfor crying outloud.
When we don't draft a game changing forward, the fanbase erupts. When we do draft one and plan on playing him as a top line center, the fanbase erupts. If we put a talented player in Milwaukee we're stifling his development. If we put him in a top six role, we're rushing him. Bipolar doesn't even begin to describe this team's fans.

Wilson was drafted to be the top center. It's a trial by fire, but, if the kid is the player we expected when he was selection it's a good move.

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07-02-2010, 11:43 AM
  #46
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Fair points. However...

Let's replace Dumont with each person you mentioned in the first paragraph. I would consider the forward talent around that player to be much better in Nashville with the possible exception of Stamkos (and Tampa had a load of other issues).

There are a myriad of reasons for losing a series. Building a team isn't an easy job either, or everyone could do it. There has to be a right mix everywhere on the team.

Washington could not cope with Montreal's defense. I'd probably argue that they relied too much on those flashy scorers and needed more defensive play and something from their role players.

We can do this all day (go round and round).

Doesn't change the fact that the philosophy shown to this point in time has been consistent as has been the results.
Dumont is a setup guy with the ability to net around 20.

5 out of 6 seasons in the post season while on a shoestring budget. Of our one and dones .. how many have been self inflicted wounds? (i.e. the last minute of game 5 in Chi, Radulov concussing Arnott, Rads getting suspended) The team has beaten itself in the playoffs as much often as the opposition has.

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07-02-2010, 11:51 AM
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When we don't draft a game changing forward, the fanbase erupts. When we do draft one and plan on playing him as a top line center, the fanbase erupts. If we put a talented player in Milwaukee we're stifling his development. If we put him in a top six role, we're rushing him. Bipolar doesn't even begin to describe this team's fans.

Wilson was drafted to be the top center. It's a trial by fire, but, if the kid is the player we expected when he was selection it's a good move.
In the instance of Wilson, I completely agree with you. If he's surrounded with the right players, I'll think he'll be fine.

Now, just to have some fun with your post....

Management expects Legwand to score 60+ points, so let's pair him with Smithson! Klein and Hamhuis seem to have major communication issues all season, so let's keep putting them together! The team's PP has been average (to be generous) since inception, so let's keep running the same personnel and strategies every time. The GM is going to do everything possible to improve the PP, so he signs a player from Europe that hasn't played in the League in 8-ish years.

In fairness, some of that bipolar personality must have been absorbed by the fan base from the management/staff/players.



Just having some fun.

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07-02-2010, 11:52 AM
  #48
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http://capitals.nhl.com/club/page.htm?bcid=23156

Just a little reading for historical perspective.

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07-02-2010, 12:03 PM
  #49
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Im with Trigg on this one.

If you think this team is better than last years thenI dontknow what to say. Our top line center is scheduledto attend our Prospects campfor crying outloud.
Funny. Quick laugh.

Every player in this league that has started their pro career in the 15 years has attended prospect camp.

I think Wilson is getting a major opportunity here and probably a year sooner than would have been liked, but the only people foisting him into this "top line" center role are those that forget that we roll four lines pretty regularly and that Arnott and Legwand shared the role of "top" center on any given night last year (Arnott averaged 15:13 ES TOI vs. Legwand's 15:10 ES TOI).

We're going to go with a 1a/1b center role again this year as we have for the majority of our existence. Yes, Arnott did step up and fill the coveted No. 1 center role for two years, but his play slipped in the third and it was definitely a 1a/1b situation last season.

I'd LOVE to have a true No. 1 center next year, but if we are going to add to the offense I don't think that's our best use of assets when we have Colin Wilson right there waiting to step into the role. I'd much rather take a shot at Kovalchuk or Frolov before going out and spending money to try to fill the coveted No. 1 center role.

But alas, I think if anything we're looking for a No. 2/3 veteran center to either bump Legwand or O'Reilly down the depth chart, a veteran backup for Pekka that's not looking to steal his thunder, and we also need a veteran depth defenseman. Personally, I'd be shocked in a great way if we truly went after the forward and if we did, I think it has to come through trade...

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07-02-2010, 12:03 PM
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BFC. You have a lot of great things you contribute to discussions at this site. That said, the above quote is full of ****.
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