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Old
07-02-2010, 12:04 PM
  #51
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
When we don't draft a game changing forward, the fanbase erupts. When we do draft one and plan on playing him as a top line center, the fanbase erupts. If we put a talented player in Milwaukee we're stifling his development. If we put him in a top six role, we're rushing him. Bipolar doesn't even begin to describe this team's fans.

Wilson was drafted to be the top center. It's a trial by fire, but, if the kid is the player we expected when he was selection it's a good move.
And the carebear attitude some of you have is just as annoying...

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07-02-2010, 12:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Yes, and I have the x-rays to prove it. Don't make me post them.



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07-02-2010, 12:20 PM
  #53
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
And the carebear attitude some of you have is just as annoying...
Let's see ... Wilson v Arnott.

Arnott is 35, concussion prone, missed 1/4 of each of the past two seasons with much of that time down the stretch. When healthy can score, spotty at the faceoff dot, not known for hustle, defense, or use of size.

Wilson turns 21 this season. Played much better after getting over his groin injury. More willing to use his body and fight along the boards. 50% at the dot last season in limited time. Biggest drawback ... lack of experience and it is unknown if he is ready to step in yet.

There's your "carebear" attitude .... Poile is taking a calculated risk that Wilson can handle top six responsibilities and center a scoring line. Where the opening up front is created by these deals is on the wing where Wilson played most of his time last season. To fill that gap we have another calculated set of risks .... Halischuk, Andersson, or SK ... unless Poile makes a pickup later this summer. If the team goes with Dumont, Sully, Hornqvist, and Erat as the top line wingers we have known commodities up front with the question becoming if Dumont can recover from his off season or not.

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07-02-2010, 12:22 PM
  #54
Roman Yoshi
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Holy ****.

Ok, here is the deal. Some of us aren't comfortable with the roster and hope Poile does something to adjust the team in the coming days. I think that is a valid concern.

Some of us say stay the course and see what happens.

Some of us feel like we have stockpiled so many talented blueline prospects that it is time to flip a couple for scoring.

Some of us think we have enough scoring.

My point is EVERY NHL FANBASE goes through this. That is what it means to be a fan.

But **** it, this feels like the old NP.com boards all over again.

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07-02-2010, 12:24 PM
  #55
David Singleton
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
Holy ****.

Ok, here is the deal. Some of us aren't comfortable with the roster and hope Poile does something to adjust the team in the coming days. I think that is a valid concern.

Some of us say stay the course and see what happens.

Some of us feel like we have stockpiled so many talented blueline prospects that it is time to flip a couple for scoring.

Some of us think we have enough scoring.

My point is EVERY NHL FANBASE goes through this. That is what it means to be a fan.

But **** it, this feels like the old NP.com boards all over again.
Nah, we're more lighthearted.


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Old
07-02-2010, 12:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
this feels like the old NP.com boards all over again.
Yes it does.

Fact is the arguments have been cyclical. Most aren't happy with the roster but we don't have the cash to improve the roster. We don't have the cash to improve the roster because we don't have a high enough paid attendance.

The next comment is 'That's because we don't have the sexy names to get a higher attendance.' Here's the problem with the argument. Even when the Preds got Forsberg the attendance didn't see a boost. The south is a college culture. When the first guy from University of Florida or Alabama joins the Preds then this formula changes.

Geoffrion could be a game changer. Geoffrion, not some random name will do that. Time is the other factor. Also would be nice to have a true rival, not some meh rival like Detroit or Columbus. There needs to be something that drives the passions.

Funny thing is, if Hamilton were to get a team with Balls. I think that could do it.

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07-02-2010, 12:33 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
Holy ****.

Ok, here is the deal. Some of us aren't comfortable with the roster and hope Poile does something to adjust the team in the coming days. I think that is a valid concern.

Some of us say stay the course and see what happens.

Some of us feel like we have stockpiled so many talented blueline prospects that it is time to flip a couple for scoring.

Some of us think we have enough scoring.

My point is EVERY NHL FANBASE goes through this. That is what it means to be a fan.

But **** it, this feels like the old NP.com boards all over again.
JT, here's the thing, people were freaking out yesterday because we didn't do anything. It's the first day of free agency for crying out loud. I want moves made, don't get me wrong. At the same time, I'm gonna wait a few days before a lay out a decree that we haven't done anything and our team is not going to make the playoffs. Every move that's been made so far this offseason I've been happy with. I still want and expect more out of Poile. I want to add more scoring if possible.

I think it's funny that not one person has commented on my Kovalchuk post from earlier. Dump Dumont, bring in Kovie, everyone is happy. I think maybe Singleton made a comment about it but that's it. We'd have one huge salary, about 5 or 6 guys in the 4 million range. That's doable.

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07-02-2010, 12:34 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
In the instance of Wilson, I completely agree with you. If he's surrounded with the right players, I'll think he'll be fine.

Now, just to have some fun with your post....

Management expects Legwand to score 60+ points, so let's pair him with Smithson! Klein and Hamhuis seem to have major communication issues all season, so let's keep putting them together! The team's PP has been average (to be generous) since inception, so let's keep running the same personnel and strategies every time. The GM is going to do everything possible to improve the PP, so he signs a player from Europe that hasn't played in the League in 8-ish years.

In fairness, some of that bipolar personality must have been absorbed by the fan base from the management/staff/players.



Just having some fun.
Faulting Legwand for not scoring during the regular season is like complaining that a plane didn't fly with faulty wings attached. It doesn't matter if it's a Cessna or Fighter ... the fuselage doesn't get airborne without wings. I was frustrated at how many games he went without a goal, but, had no expectations for him to put up good numbers with Smithson and Ward.

The PP was a top ten performer coming out of the lockout ... 11th in 03-04 .... and was hovering around the top ten in 06-07 until Sully went down. This season the PP was a head scratcher. They were 11th or better in scoring for EVERY even strength or man advantage situation except 5on4 where they were 29th. Eliminating Arnott from that equation can't hurt.

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07-02-2010, 12:39 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
JT, here's the thing, people were freaking out yesterday because we didn't do anything. It's the first day of free agency for crying out loud. I want moves made, don't get me wrong. At the same time, I'm gonna wait a few days before a lay out a decree that we haven't done anything and our team is not going to make the playoffs. Every move that's been made so far this offseason I've been happy with. I still want and expect more out of Poile. I want to add more scoring if possible.

I think it's funny that not one person has commented on my Kovalchuk post from earlier. Dump Dumont, bring in Kovie, everyone is happy. I think maybe Singleton made a comment about it but that's it. We'd have one huge salary, about 5 or 6 guys in the 4 million range. That's doable.
I totally agree with you from that aspect. I think Dumping Dumont, adding Kovalchuk is the BEST option. Not like it will happen, but it is a good idea.

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07-02-2010, 12:39 PM
  #60
David Singleton
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Faulting Legwand for not scoring during the regular season is like complaining that a plane didn't fly with faulty wings attached. It doesn't matter if it's a Cessna or Fighter ... the fuselage doesn't get airborne without wings. I was frustrated at how many games he went without a goal, but, had no expectations for him to put up good numbers with Smithson and Ward. Right, but my point was that management did have those expectations. See? Bipolar- expect offense and position him as a shutdown center. It wouldn't have been so bad had they not castigated him after putting him in the defensive role for most of the season and immediately following that inspired playoff performance.

The PP was a top ten performer coming out of the lockout ... 11th in 03-04 .... and was hovering around the top ten in 06-07 until Sully went down. This season the PP was a head scratcher. They were 11th or better in scoring for EVERY even strength or man advantage situation except 5on4 where they were 29th. Eliminating Arnott from that equation can't hurt. They should have easily been in the top five in 06-07. The feeling by many (certainly myself included) is that the PP has never been as good as it should have been with the talent on-hand. This season was especially bad obviously.
My responses are in bold.

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07-02-2010, 12:43 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
JT, here's the thing, people were freaking out yesterday because we didn't do anything. It's the first day of free agency for crying out loud. I want moves made, don't get me wrong. At the same time, I'm gonna wait a few days before a lay out a decree that we haven't done anything and our team is not going to make the playoffs. Every move that's been made so far this offseason I've been happy with. I still want and expect more out of Poile. I want to add more scoring if possible.

I think it's funny that not one person has commented on my Kovalchuk post from earlier. Dump Dumont, bring in Kovie, everyone is happy. I think maybe Singleton made a comment about it but that's it. We'd have one huge salary, about 5 or 6 guys in the 4 million range. That's doable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
I totally agree with you from that aspect. I think Dumping Dumont, adding Kovalchuk is the BEST option. Not like it will happen, but it is a good idea.
I actually like trading for Semin better as it gives us some flexibility to go in another direction next season if necessary.

If you could pry Ryan out of Anaheim without giving up Wilson, Hornqvist, Weber or Suter, that may be the best option (via trade, offer sheet, whatever).

Kovy isn't a bad option however.

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07-02-2010, 12:46 PM
  #62
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
My responses are in bold.
Legwand is the designated whipping boy for both the club and fans. I'm actually amazed at how well he takes it. I've yet to hear him lash out about the team putting him in one situation and expecting unrealistic numbers for it.

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07-02-2010, 12:53 PM
  #63
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I have yet to see a logical arguement on why we are a worse team this year.

Ellis - He went about .500 last year and got nearly 30 games, we lose someone who is a known quantity but we have loads of prospects and Poile is banking on one to step above the competition. This is not a sure thing but Mitch Korn rarely fails especially with 5 prospects that are projected to all be at least an NHL backup.

Arnott - Yes we lose 46 points, but we also lose a center that could not play defense or stay healthy. I will admit there are A LOT of ifs, but there are so many something is bound to work. I actually believe that Wilson is better than Arnott and his line would not get constantly cycled on. There are other possibilities, Legwand and Erat could do better. Andersson was signed for a reason and he may produce. SK may be able to produce. Heck even Geoffrion could come in and completely wow Trotz and play an offensive role. Again there are so many options that I feel like we won't just replace Arnott but produce even more.

Hamhuis - This is something that may hurt us, but with everything else there are plenty of options. As much as some people hate him Klein has the same talent as Hamhuis and if he puts it together then we essentially lose nothing. I believe Klein is on the verge of that as well, the 2nd half of the year Klein played very well for the most part and with the exception of a few games was equal to Hamhuis. If he doesnt work then Parent and Franson can take some more minutes. Again lots of options.

This year seems a bit better than normal "OMG WE DIDNT DO NOTHING!" but still I feel like this team did not get worse, it lost some name power but that is it right now.

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Old
07-02-2010, 12:54 PM
  #64
David Singleton
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Most aren't happy with the roster but we don't have the cash to improve the roster. We don't have the cash to improve the roster because we don't have a high enough paid attendance.
That is the crux of the argument for sure. The kicker is that I believe that it's based on a false premise.

Can you not move Dumont to free cash? Can you improve the roster by moving Dumont and still be within your budget?

Many people have brought those questions to the table. Glenn even mentioned Kovy in this very thread. I've mentioned Semin before. Poile even looked at Kessel with a salary just below what he received. Nobody wants to go there.

Sure there are some obstacles to overcome- Dumont's NMC for one. But those can be achieved as the Arnott trade proved.

It's one thing to be happy with the roster or would prefer to not trade a Dumont-for-Kovy (for example) on the Predators roster.

It's another thing to claim that this team can't improve its roster due to its budget. Unless the budget has gone down significantly, that's hogwash.

If it has gone down, then they certainly can't keep Weber or Suter as time goes on (nor the franchise in Nashville).

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07-02-2010, 12:55 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Legwand is the designated whipping boy for both the club and fans. I'm actually amazed at how well he takes it. I've yet to hear him lash out about the team putting him in one situation and expecting unrealistic numbers for it.
I agree. His attitude in handling that is pretty impressive.

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07-02-2010, 01:05 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Let's see ... Wilson v Arnott.

Arnott is 35, concussion prone, missed 1/4 of each of the past two seasons with much of that time down the stretch. When healthy can score, spotty at the faceoff dot, not known for hustle, defense, or use of size.

Wilson turns 21 this season. Played much better after getting over his groin injury. More willing to use his body and fight along the boards. 50% at the dot last season in limited time. Biggest drawback ... lack of experience and it is unknown if he is ready to step in yet.

There's your "carebear" attitude .... Poile is taking a calculated risk that Wilson can handle top six responsibilities and center a scoring line. Where the opening up front is created by these deals is on the wing where Wilson played most of his time last season. To fill that gap we have another calculated set of risks .... Halischuk, Andersson, or SK ... unless Poile makes a pickup later this summer. If the team goes with Dumont, Sully, Hornqvist, and Erat as the top line wingers we have known commodities up front with the question becoming if Dumont can recover from his off season or not.
Again the risk isn't in the goal scoring as much to me as it is defensively.

We're counting on a guy that has a huge heart but little talent to play 2nd pairing minutes for the first time in his career at the age of 35, this same guy has mostly been a 6th7th defenseman and was a healthy scratch throughout his career the same defenseman we picked up at age 30 and released later. This is our number 3 guy on defense right now.

We lost Hamhuis - 2M - Arnott - 4.5m and Ellis 2M - That's 9.5M savings - Are we asking too much to say spend some of that money to make us a better team, right now, we are not....

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07-02-2010, 01:06 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
That is the crux of the argument for sure. The kicker is that I believe that it's based on a false premise.

Can you not move Dumont to free cash? Can you improve the roster by moving Dumont and still be within your budget?

Many people have brought those questions to the table. Glenn even mentioned Kovy in this very thread. I've mentioned Semin before. Poile even looked at Kessel with a salary just below what he received. Nobody wants to go there.

Sure there are some obstacles to overcome- Dumont's NMC for one. But those can be achieved as the Arnott trade proved.

It's one thing to be happy with the roster or would prefer to not trade a Dumont-for-Kovy (for example) on the Predators roster.

It's another thing to claim that this team can't improve its roster due to its budget. Unless the budget has gone down significantly, that's hogwash.

If it has gone down, then they certainly can't keep Weber or Suter as time goes on (nor the franchise in Nashville).
Sully's salary goes primarily to funding the Weber extension. Dumont's goes to funding Suter. If we trade Dumont to bring in Kovy and the additional $3mil in salary we then spend the money that is most likely allocated to keeping our top blueline pairing.

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07-02-2010, 01:08 PM
  #68
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The two factors of life are time and money. This is another argument which can be solved with a perspective for both. RIGHT NOW, the team is par in my mind if the gambles pay off. But that's right now. I want to see who drops and what guys you can pick up for cheap.

Kovy is interesting. So's Lombardi. Both are still on the market and a lot of teams shot their wad on the first day. There are 6 20 goal scorers still on the UFA charts and a bunch of 19 and 18 goal scorers

Kovy, Stempniak, Selanne, Afinogenov, Guerin, Poni, Frolov, Lombardi, Torres, and yes, Kariya.

We shall see.

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07-02-2010, 01:21 PM
  #69
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Again the risk isn't in the goal scoring as much to me as it is defensively.

We're counting on a guy that has a huge heart but little talent to play 2nd pairing minutes for the first time in his career at the age of 35, this same guy has mostly been a 6th7th defenseman and was a healthy scratch throughout his career the same defenseman we picked up at age 30 and released later. This is our number 3 guy on defense right now.

We lost Hamhuis - 2M - Arnott - 4.5m and Ellis 2M - That's 9.5M savings - Are we asking too much to say spend some of that money to make us a better team, right now, we are not....
9.5mil
- 3.5mil from extensions prior to FA
=6mil
- Parent ($1mil or so)
=5mil
-Hornqvist raise ($2mil addional)
=3mil
- backup goalie (750k)
=2.25mil
-Andersson (675k)
=1.575mil
-#6 dman callup/RFA signing (700)
=.875mil remaining .... before SK

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07-02-2010, 01:23 PM
  #70
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I think every team has question marks going into a season. Last year, Chicago and Philly probably thought they stood a good chance, if their goaltending held up. Unfortunately, for other teams the question marks landed them outside of the playoffs. I don't think Wilson's effectiveness as a #1 center is a big question mark because, as was pointed out earlier the Preds roll their lines and they roll their lines because they have balance. I am not any more worried about losing Arnott's production than I would have been about his ability to consistently contribute every night had he not been traded. I might have also looked at Hamhuis as a question mark given his dependancy on having the right partner. I don't think there are more questions about this team, I just think the names have changed.

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07-02-2010, 01:23 PM
  #71
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Oy Kovy is looking for 10m for 10 years.

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07-02-2010, 01:25 PM
  #72
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Oy Kovy is looking for 10m for 10 years.
shocking ... rumor has it he has a 17 million dollar/year in his back pocket from a KHL team

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07-02-2010, 01:27 PM
  #73
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Our RFA got 3.5M not including Hornqvist or SK?

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07-02-2010, 01:28 PM
  #74
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shocking ... rumor has it he has a 17 million dollar/year in his back pocket from a KHL team
I wish him well in Siberia then. I heard the Republic of Georgia is fantastic in the Winter.

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07-02-2010, 01:33 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
9.5mil
- 3.5mil from extensions prior to FA
=6mil
- Parent ($1mil or so)
=5mil
-Hornqvist raise ($2mil addional)
=3mil
- backup goalie (750k)
=2.25mil
-Andersson (675k)
=1.575mil
-#6 dman callup/RFA signing (700)
=.875mil remaining .... before SK
Wait, you're saying we spent 3.5M in extending FAs but then also add in Parent, Hornqvist and #6 defenseman into some extra column. If that's the case Franson got one hell of a raise.

Am I not wrong that Hornqvist, Franson, Parent, Santorelli and SK are the only current roster players that were RFA?

Laakso I think was the other.

Also, Sulzer was on a one way contract so he was still technically on the roster.


Last edited by triggrman: 07-02-2010 at 01:39 PM.
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