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Old
07-02-2010, 01:54 PM
  #51
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matt carle + rights to Dan Carcillo for Wayne Simmonds


sigh. i wish.

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07-02-2010, 01:55 PM
  #52
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Randy Jones. And I wish I was joking.
Carle + Gagne for Brown + Handzus.



I wish.

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07-02-2010, 01:59 PM
  #53
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Matt Carle + Rights to Dan Carcillo + Patrick Maroon for Dustin Brown

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07-02-2010, 02:07 PM
  #54
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The point of dealing Carle is to dump salary.

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07-02-2010, 02:08 PM
  #55
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The point of dealing Carle is to dump salary.
dump it elsewhere, we need a right wing damn it!

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07-02-2010, 02:10 PM
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No we don't, Giroux, Briere, Leino.

Of course, then we won't have a 3rd line since Homer didn't sign a 3rd line C.

Lots of facepalm for us recently.

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07-02-2010, 02:15 PM
  #57
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No we don't, Giroux, Briere, Leino.

Of course, then we won't have a 3rd line since Homer didn't sign a 3rd line C.

Lots of facepalm for us recently.
Leino, yes. Briere? no he's better at center. ALOT better at center. Giroux? no, he's better at center too but can play RW better than Briere. After the playoffs, its beginning to look more and more like jeff carter will be gone soon.

Richards, Giroux and Briere will have to be our top 3 centers. I'd probably like it more if it were Richard, Giroux, Carter, but Briere's salary isn't going anywhere.
we need a legit top 6 right wing who can help solidify our top 2 or 3 lines

Gagne-Richards-Brown
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux- X
Powe-Betts-Laperriere

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07-02-2010, 02:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
No we don't, Giroux, Briere, Leino.

Of course, then we won't have a 3rd line since Homer didn't sign a 3rd line C.

Lots of facepalm for us recently.
Shut up, VP of Common Sense.

I think our "lack of depth" on the RW is one of my favorite developments of late. Have seen it here and there with regularity.

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07-02-2010, 02:17 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Leino, yes. Briere? no he's better at center. ALOT better at center. Giroux? no, he's better at center too but can play RW better than Briere. After the playoffs, its beginning to look more and more like jeff carter will be gone soon.

Richards, Giroux and Briere will be our top 3 center. I'd probably like it more if it were Richard, Giroux, Carter, but Briere's salary isn't going anywhere.
we need a legit top 6 right wing who can help solidify our top 2 or 3 lines

Gagne-Richards-Brown
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux- X
Powe-Betts-Laperriere
Briere's best offensive season as a Flyer (at even strength) came while playing RW. True story.

He's also an unmitigated disaster defensively, but that's another story.

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07-02-2010, 02:17 PM
  #60
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...not worth getting into this again, guess we'll see what they do, but it's funny how Holmgren has splashed down all this money and still hasn't solved our 2 biggest problems.

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07-02-2010, 02:18 PM
  #61
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3 teams signed there #1 netminders yesterday

TB - Ellis (Have Smith to platoon)
SJ - Nittymaki (Have Greiss to platoon)
Atl - Mason (Have Pavalec to platoon)

Turco doesn't have alot of options left

Outside of the Flyers no one else needs a #1 (Maybe the Hawks if Niemi is too costly)

Ana - Hiller
Atl - Mason
Bos - Rask (Thomas is still there as well)
Buf - Miller
Cal - Kipper
Car - Ward
Chi - working on Niemi extention
Clb - Mason
Col - Anderson
Dal - Lehtonen
Det - Howard
Edm - Khabibulin (Stuck with him for 3 more years )
Fla - Vokoun
LA - Quick (Bernier likely #2 next year)
Min- Niklas Backstrom
Mon - Price
Nas - Rinne
NJ - Brodeur
NYR - Lundqvist
NYI - Roloson (Possibly Dipietro if healthy)
Ott - Cant afford Turco with Leclaire's salary on books
Pit- MAF
SJ -
Pho - Byrzgalov
Stl - Halak
Van-Luongo
Was - Varlamov (And Nevurth as #2)
Tor - Jean-Sebastien Giguere

Outside of Philly and possible the Hawks no team has a #1 spot open (Senators cant afford Turco)
Thanks for break down. Good job! I added a few things in bold.

Nabby, Turco, Thomas, Howard (still unsigned), Osgood are all in play. I do not think anyone will go after Theodore but there is a chance.

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07-02-2010, 02:19 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Shut up, VP of Common Sense.

I think our "lack of depth" on the RW is one of my favorite developments of late. Have seen it here and there with regularity.
It's going to be interesting to see what Holmgren says in December when Giroux/Briere are getting slaughtered defensively at C (my opinion/prediction) and Leighton has a .890.

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07-02-2010, 02:19 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Thanks for break down. Good job! I added a few things in bold.

Nabby, Turco, Thomas, Howard (still unsigned), Osgood are all in play. I do not think anyone will go after Theodore but there is a chance.
It would be best to sign Turco before Nabby decides that 3M isn't worth his time and signs for twice that in the KHL. It won't raise Turco's price terribly but it will make him the best available goalie. Of course, Homer's nickname should be 500K because that's what he overpays for virtually every player he signs.

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07-02-2010, 02:20 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Thanks for break down. Good job! I added a few things in bold.

Nabby, Turco, Thomas, Howard (still unsigned), Osgood are all in play. I do not think anyone will go after Theodore but there is a chance.
I would wager Theodore gets picked up as a backup somewhere once the dust settles. Technically, Chicago doesn't have a goalie signed as of now.

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07-02-2010, 02:21 PM
  #65
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Can they not just trade Carle and Boucher for a cheap Dman and picks to say ohhhh Buffalo who could use as Dman and Backup

then sign Turco

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07-02-2010, 02:25 PM
  #66
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Briere's best offensive season as a Flyer (at even strength) came while playing RW. True story.

He's also an unmitigated disaster defensively, but that's another story.
Yes, but Briere also had the best season of his career playing center in buffalo... it's also a true story that he's not the strongest player, especially along the boards. in 07-08 when he played RW, he was basicallly just not taking faceoffs. You see it alot with players like briere. They'll be set up as a winger, and play a drifting game and will lurke more towards the slot and below the net like a center typically would. We saw in the playoffs this year that he's better suited to center. how could you question that?

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07-02-2010, 02:30 PM
  #67
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You know, this would seem to be the most logical thing to do...but its Homer.

Instead of signing Turco, we are going to go after another damn defender... or maybe another enforcer.

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07-02-2010, 02:35 PM
  #68
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The funny thing about the Turco idea is, 2 days ago, Turco was at the bottom of my list between his likely cost and being an older guy likely on the decline. Now, we're staring Leights/Boosh right in the face and I'm all aboard the Turco bandwagon.

If they could somehow unload Briere and use the cap savings on a veteran winger and Turco I'd be thrilled. I'd still hate the Shelley signing, but I'd still be thrilled overall.

2nd choice would be Carle out, 3rd-pairing vet and Turco in.

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07-02-2010, 02:37 PM
  #69
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Yes, but Briere also had the best season of his career playing center in buffalo... it's also a true story that he's not the strongest player, especially along the boards. in 07-08 when he played RW, he was basicallly just not taking faceoffs. You see it alot with players like briere. They'll be set up as a winger, and play a drifting game and will lurke more towards the slot and below the net like a center typically would. We saw in the playoffs this year that he's better suited to center. how could you question that?
... teams cycle the puck, and the forwards rotate. Wings end up behind the net and in the slot... just as much as centers.

Buffalo's magic ain't happening here, lets give up the ghost on that front. That Danny Briere is never walking into our locker room and out onto the ice. The way officials are calling the game has changed considerably since then (defenses are getting away with a lot more now, and have adjusted to playing under the harsher rules as well); and Briere is a few years older and further removed from his prime offensive years.

In '07-'08 he was a center pretty much the entire year, too.

How can I question him being a center? Because Danny Briere is not going to score 100 pts for us (yes, that was the pace he was on during the playoffs). He's a defensive disaster at center, which drags down everyone around him on that side of the puck. So, he's proven to be just as effective offensively on the wing... and that removes his defensive problems considerably.

This past year his point production fall was entirely because he got less from the PP than he has previously. That's it. You want to know why his production jumped during the playoffs? It was in part just cuz that line got smoking hot at even strength, but also: 4-6-10 on the PP in 23 games (extends out to 35.6 pts over 82 games -- twice his PP production of this past year).

Briere is an effective offensive player at center, but he's also an effective offensive player on the wing. However, the added benefit of Briere on the wing is that your team isn't hurt by his defensive letdowns.

First season as a center (72 pts): net +15
Last year as a RW (53 pts): net +15

If he'd matched his PP production of the first season he would have been a net +35.

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07-02-2010, 02:43 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Thanks for break down. Good job! I added a few things in bold.

Nabby, Turco, Thomas, Howard (still unsigned), Osgood are all in play. I do not think anyone will go after Theodore but there is a chance.
Huh? They're both under contract for this year.

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07-02-2010, 02:47 PM
  #71
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...not worth getting into this again, guess we'll see what they do, but it's funny how Holmgren has splashed down all this money and still hasn't solved our 2 biggest problems.
As much as I am concerned with goaltending and a third line, faceoff winning centreman, solidifying the third pairing would have been my secondary goal of the off-season behind goaltending.

Should the Flyers land Turco, Jody Shelley will be my only off-season complaint because between Carter, Richards, Giroux and Briere I think the Flyers believe they have their top 3 centremen.

Someone just needs to help Richards and Carter become consistent 55% faceoff winning centres...

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07-02-2010, 02:51 PM
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... teams cycle the puck, and the forwards rotate. Wings end up behind the net and in the slot... just as much as centers.

Buffalo's magic ain't happening here, lets give up the ghost on that front. That Danny Briere is never walking into our locker room and out onto the ice. The way officials are calling the game has changed considerably since then (defenses are getting away with a lot more now, and have adjusted to playing under the harsher rules as well); and Briere is a few years older and further removed from his prime offensive years.

In '07-'08 he was a center pretty much the entire year, too.

How can I question him being a center? Because Danny Briere is not going to score 100 pts for us (yes, that was the pace he was on during the playoffs). He's a defensive disaster at center, which drags down everyone around him on that side of the puck. So, he's proven to be just as effective offensively on the wing... and that removes his defensive problems considerably.

This past year his point production fall was entirely because he got less from the PP than he has previously. That's it. You want to know why his production jumped during the playoffs? It was in part just cuz that line got smoking hot at even strength, but also: 4-6-10 on the PP in 23 games (extends out to 35.6 pts over 82 games -- twice his PP production of this past year).

Briere is an effective offensive player at center, but he's also an effective offensive player on the wing. However, the added benefit of Briere on the wing is that your team isn't hurt by his defensive letdowns.

First season as a center (72 pts): net +15
Last year as a RW (53 pts): net +15

If he'd matched his PP production of the first season he would have been a net +35.
thanks, coach. there's a considerable difference in the fact that all teams cycle the puck and where players do the best in the offensive zone. i've played hockey for almost 20 years, i know how a cycle works. What i'm saying is that Briere's natural ability lies at center. period. this fact is why Briere has never really worked when put on Jeff Carters wing. Because Jeff Carter is a a lurking center, he circles the high slot and the top of the circles and waits for the pass from the corners because he's a shooting, scoring center. Briere's game works better when he has players crashing the net for him and feeding him the puck below the goal line. He's not strong on the puck at all, which is why he's not going to be able to win those battles in the corners and get the puck out to the high slot for carter to blast in.

i agree that Briere's defensive woes make him a liability in that aspect, and that he's better suited to the wing in the sense that his defensive responsibilities go way down, but who's line do you put him on as a RW? Do you really want to break up the chemistry the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line has?

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07-02-2010, 02:54 PM
  #73
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You know what's sad?

Shelley is our best candidate for a salary dump if we want Marty Turco, as in he's the perfect candidate if we hadn't just signed him yesterday.

Is it just me, or do other people recognize that as well?

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07-02-2010, 02:57 PM
  #74
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It would be best to sign Turco before Nabby decides that 3M isn't worth his time and signs for twice that in the KHL. It won't raise Turco's price terribly but it will make him the best available goalie.
Turco is my #1 since 02/09, I like Nabokov but I think Turco is a better option.
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Of course, Homer's nickname should be 500K because that's what he overpays for virtually every player he signs.
More like $800K.
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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
Huh? They're both under contract for this year.
My bad. You are 100% correct! Osgood and Howard are signed. Good catch! Sorry!
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I would wager Theodore gets picked up as a backup somewhere once the dust settles. Technically, Chicago doesn't have a goalie signed as of now.
For like 1.5-2M a year, no more then that. Honestly, I would not pay over 1.3M.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 07-02-2010 at 03:22 PM.
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07-02-2010, 03:02 PM
  #75
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thanks, coach. there's a considerable difference in the fact that all teams cycle the puck and where players do the best in the offensive zone. i've played hockey for almost 20 years, i know how a cycle works. What i'm saying is that Briere's natural ability lies at center. period. this fact is why Briere has never really worked when put on Jeff Carters wing. Because Jeff Carter is a a lurking center, he circles the high slot and the top of the circles and waits for the pass from the corners because he's a shooting, scoring center. Briere's game works better when he has players crashing the net for him and feeding him the puck below the goal line. He's not strong on the puck at all, which is why he's not going to be able to win those battles in the corners and get the puck out to the high slot for carter to blast in.

i agree that Briere's defensive woes make him a liability in that aspect, and that he's better suited to the wing in the sense that his defensive responsibilities go way down, but who's line do you put him on as a RW? Do you really want to break up the chemistry the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line has?
Please stop saying this. It is simply a false statement.

This year, mostly playing on Carter's wing, Briere scored 18-18-36 at even strength. Two years ago, mostly playing center, Briere scored 17-18-35 at even strength. Briere worked absolutely fine with Carter. If you want to argue you like Briere at center, fine, go for it, but do not use the "he didn't work with Carter" mantra because it's a factually incorrect statement. Briere and Carter were our most consistent even strength tandem this past year. Roughly 70% of Briere's even strength minutes this year were played with Carter centering him, and he had his best even strength year as a Flyer.

In fact, it was only 4 goals shy of his career high for even strength goals. Briere on Carter's wing worked just fine.

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