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Old
07-02-2010, 03:04 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Please stop saying this. It is simply a false statement.

This year, mostly playing on Carter's wing, Briere scored 18-18-36 at even strength. Two years ago, mostly playing center, Briere scored 17-18-35 at even strength. Briere worked absolutely fine with Carter. If you want to argue you like Briere at center, fine, go for it, but do not use the "he didn't work with Carter" mantra because it's a factually incorrect statement. Briere and Carter were our most consistent even strength tandem this past year. Roughly 70% of Briere's even strength minutes this year were played with Carter centering him, and he had his best even strength year as a Flyer.

In fact, it was only 4 goals shy of his career high for even strength goals. Briere on Carter's wing worked just fine.
And btw, I know drinking the Carter Haterade is pretty popular right now, but he does deserve a significant amount of credit for this.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:04 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You know what's sad?

Shelley is our best candidate for a salary dump if we want Marty Turco, as in he's the perfect candidate if we hadn't just signed him yesterday.

Is it just me, or do other people recognize that as well?
...seems like most people realized it was a terrible idea the moment the news came across. There's simply no justification for handing out that contract on July 1st. Figure out your 4th line later... especially if you're talking about guys that have zero chance to get anywhere near 10 minutes a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
For like 1.5-2M a year, no more then that. Honestly, I would not pay over 1.3M.
I don't think he gets even that when it's all said and done. He'll be in the "happy to have a job" situation.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:10 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You know what's sad?

Shelley is our best candidate for a salary dump if we want Marty Turco, as in he's the perfect candidate if we hadn't just signed him yesterday.

Is it just me, or do other people recognize that as well?
Can we stick him in the minors and use the 1.1M towards Turco...please?

As dumb and impatient as Holmgren is he can turn this into a decent enough offseason by getting Turco.

That said, he could get Turco right now with no problem if he wasn't dumb and impatient.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:11 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Can we stick him in the minors and use the 1.1M towards Turco...please?

As dumb and impatient as Holmgren is he can turn this into a decent enough offseason by getting Turco.

That said, he could get Turco right now with no problem if he wasn't dumb and impatient.
1.1 + 1.55 = 2.65M

Yeah, that would definitely get Turco done at this point.

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07-02-2010, 03:13 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would wager Theodore gets picked up as a backup somewhere once the dust settles. Technically, Chicago doesn't have a goalie signed as of now.
Nabokov 6M
Turco 5.4M
Theodore 4.5M
Toskala 4M

All priced themselves out.

Turco I "hope" signs with the Flyers, I can see Theodore eventually giving in to sign as the backup to Ryan Miller.

As for Nabokov and Toskala, they clearly want too much money, and will probably both be playing in the K.

Turco would be stupid to turn down a chance at a cup, I'm sure he will come to realize this eventually.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:15 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warf1234 View Post
Nabokov 6M
Turco 5.4M
Theodore 4.5M
Toskala 4M

All priced themselves out.

Turco I "hope" signs with the Flyers, I can see Theodore eventually giving in to sign as the backup to Ryan Miller.

As for Nabokov and Toskala, they clearly want too much money, and will probably both be playing in the K.

Turco would be stupid to turn down a chance at a cup, I'm sure he will come to realize this eventually.
Eh, I don't think Toskala priced himself out... I just don't think anyone wanted him after how bad he was the last couple of years.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:21 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Eh, I don't think Toskala priced himself out... I just don't think anyone wanted him after how bad he was the last couple of years.



If Toskala's agent was pricing him at 4 mill, both guys deserve to be on the unemployment line swiftly.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Eh, I don't think Toskala priced himself out... I just don't think anyone wanted him after how bad he was the last couple of years.
I'm more surprised Theodore didn't get a sniff with a record 30-7-7.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:23 PM
  #84
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i would rather have leighton than turco at 5.4 million.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:24 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by warf1234 View Post
I'm more surprised Theodore didn't get a sniff with a record 30-7-7.
Theodore was always going to be a 2nd wave guy... no one was going to sign him to be a starter, but will come back to him as they look to fill out their roster, I think.

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07-02-2010, 03:28 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You know what's sad?

Shelley is our best candidate for a salary dump if we want Marty Turco, as in he's the perfect candidate if we hadn't just signed him yesterday.

Is it just me, or do other people recognize that as well?

I think that's the move that has really pushed people over the edge. The Meszaros trade was questionable but you can't really argue that it strengthened the blueline, same with O'Donnell. Even though they weren't really necessary they could have ended up being positives. But signing Shelley is just so incredibly stupid, since first off Homer overpaid him and second we don't even need him. The thought that the $1.1 million could be what keeps us from upgrading the spot that was most needed is beyond frustrating.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:37 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
I think that's the move that has really pushed people over the edge. The Meszaros trade was questionable but you can't really argue that it strengthened the blueline, same with O'Donnell. Even though they weren't really necessary they could have ended up being positives. But signing Shelley is just so incredibly stupid, since first off Homer overpaid him and second we don't even need him. The thought that the $1.1 million could be what keeps us from upgrading the spot that was most needed is beyond frustrating.
The Meszaros trade and O'Donnell signing were perfect. They were pretty much in line with what I wanted to do with the third pairing. I expected Holmgren to just sign an O'Donnell-type, fill in the top nine, and sign a goalie. That's all he had to do, and we would've had room for the trade deadline.

Instead he made our defense absolutely sickeningly good. I'm okay with that since in the end, we still had enough money to sign a goalie and fill out our roster.

I was okay with Leighton before, because I didn't want to panic. It was alright, but in retrospect, the combination of Leighton and Shelley have destroyed this offseason so far.

I normally say that you can't blame Holmgren in retrospect because it's unfair, but this was less than 24 hours in advance of his best opportunity to build what I consider the ultimate team.

The Shelley move was just stupid.

In the end, it is Shelley's $1.10m and Leighton's $1.55m that is holding us back.

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Old
07-02-2010, 03:52 PM
  #88
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turco is definitely not what he used to be, and he was one of the guys i wanted no part of, bc i was afraid that hed be around the 5 mil mark

now it seems like gms are just flat out not overpaying like they used to, and he could be had for around 3?

i would do this: trade carter for a winger and a pick or two and sign turco for 3 mil.

waive or trade boosh....theres no way he dumps shelley now, but that would be nice too

that should still give us enough cap room to sign powe and or carcillo, depending on who we trade carter for

at this point, id rather keep our top 6 D, bc that is three pairs tha can play 20 mins...thats huge for pronger and kimmo...parent/bartulis/krajicek could only play 7 mins, and they would still be -1

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Old
07-02-2010, 04:00 PM
  #89
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There's @ $500M in cap space now.

Move (trade/waive) Boucher ($900M) + Carcillo ($1MM) + Cote ($500M)

Isn't this @ $3MM enough to get Turco?

Turco 2 years @ $2.9MM?

Hold off on trading a main piece and operate with no cap space. As the season moves on there will be teams looking for a dman (Carle/Coburn/O'Donnell), grit (Powe/Lappy), or an enforcer (Shelley - wasn't he traded to the Rags?).

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Old
07-02-2010, 04:09 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
There's @ $500M in cap space now.

Move (trade/waive) Boucher ($900M) + Carcillo ($1MM) + Cote ($500M)

Isn't this @ $3MM enough to get Turco?

Turco 2 years @ $2.9MM?

Hold off on trading a main piece and operate with no cap space. As the season moves on there will be teams looking for a dman (Carle/Coburn/O'Donnell), grit (Powe/Lappy), or an enforcer (Shelley - wasn't he traded to the Rags?).
Boucher is getting $900,000,000?! Man we overpaid him for sure.


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Old
07-02-2010, 04:33 PM
  #91
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turco isnt much better then what we have, maybe he has something left in the tank but thats yet to be seen. im not sure where we get the money unless someone is unloaded

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Old
07-02-2010, 05:46 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would wager Theodore gets picked up as a backup somewhere once the dust settles. Technically, Chicago doesn't have a goalie signed as of now.
Actually we have 2 signed

Huet
Crawford

And we have 2 guys qualified

Niemi
Toivonen (Sounds like he will be resigned and compete with Crawford for #2 job)

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07-02-2010, 05:47 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Actually we have 2 signed

Huet
Crawford

And we have 2 guys qualified

Niemi
Toivonen (Sounds like he will be resigned and compete with Crawford for #2 job)
We have guys signed, they just aren't goalies.

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Old
07-02-2010, 07:01 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Actually we have 2 signed

Huet
Crawford

And we have 2 guys qualified

Niemi
Toivonen (Sounds like he will be resigned and compete with Crawford for #2 job)
I'm sure if the Hawks can rid themselves of Huet, they would explore a UFA option before bringing Crawford as the backup to Niemi.

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07-02-2010, 07:29 PM
  #95
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Am I correct in saying that the Hawks actually have essentially a $55million cap because of last years bonuses? I can't see them being a huge player for Turco if that's the case.

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07-02-2010, 07:31 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by warf1234 View Post
I'm sure if the Hawks can rid themselves of Huet, they would explore a UFA option before bringing Crawford as the backup to Niemi.
I'm under the impression they went on record as saying they were going to waive him at the start of the season if he doesn't work out a europe option.

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Old
07-02-2010, 10:30 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Actually we have 2 signed

Huet
Crawford

And we have 2 guys qualified

Niemi
Toivonen (Sounds like he will be resigned and compete with Crawford for #2 job)
Well, Huet is an empty shirt at this point. Is Crawford going to be the backup?

I'm assuming they get Niemi on whatever contract at whatever point, and sign a veteran backup to a cheap deal. I'm sure they can get a guy like Theodore for 1-year on something very cheap when the smoke clears (whether you want Theodore is another matter entirely).

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07-02-2010, 10:34 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Am I correct in saying that the Hawks actually have essentially a $55million cap because of last years bonuses? I can't see them being a huge player for Turco if that's the case.
Hawks are still unbelievably screwed. They have 14 guys under contract (including Huet) and 3.6M in space. Take Huet off and they have 13 guys and roughly 9.2M in cap space... which seems good, but both Niemi and Hjalmarsson are going to get decent raises, so that'll get 'em to 15 guys and probably 3-2M in cap space. In any event, they're looking at having a lot of really cheap contracts filling out that roster.

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07-02-2010, 10:39 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Hawks are still unbelievably screwed. They have 14 guys under contract (including Huet) and 3.6M in space. Take Huet off and they have 13 guys and roughly 9.2M in cap space... which seems good, but both Niemi and Hjalmarsson are going to get decent raises, so that'll get 'em to 15 guys and probably 3-2M in cap space. In any event, they're looking at having a lot of really cheap contracts filling out that roster.
Yeah. Hell, Boucher would probably be too expensive for them.

Also, they can plug Huet down in the AHL and be rid of that cap hit, right? But when playoff time rolls around, they could just have him on their expanded roster if they desire? How does that work out exactly?

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07-02-2010, 10:40 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Please stop saying this. It is simply a false statement.

This year, mostly playing on Carter's wing, Briere scored 18-18-36 at even strength. Two years ago, mostly playing center, Briere scored 17-18-35 at even strength. Briere worked absolutely fine with Carter. If you want to argue you like Briere at center, fine, go for it, but do not use the "he didn't work with Carter" mantra because it's a factually incorrect statement. Briere and Carter were our most consistent even strength tandem this past year. Roughly 70% of Briere's even strength minutes this year were played with Carter centering him, and he had his best even strength year as a Flyer.

In fact, it was only 4 goals shy of his career high for even strength goals. Briere on Carter's wing worked just fine.
I think Briere had his best even strength year as a Flyer for many other reason than playing with Jeff Carter. 1) The team was completely dreadful at even strength the entire time he has been here...2) he actually played with consistent linemates for the first time and 3) he was healthy. He would have put up much more offense with Giroux as his center and he also showed how much better he is when playing with a truly skilled player in Leino, and while at center.

Carter is better complemented by north/south players like Hartnell and Lupul, hence why that line worked so well together. Not guys that like to move the puck around and play a give and go type game like Briere.

Plus, Carter's numbers were down from the prior year so how much did Briere have to do with that?

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