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Dreger: Isles offer 10 years, 10million per to Kovalchuck

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Old
07-03-2010, 08:10 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
yes, Goals = visibility

Not that pesky, "defensive crap" players are doing these days. Killing penalties? Blocking shots? Come on. Carrying the puck into the zone instead of the unbeatable dump and chase style play?

I mean, what good is a 2 time stanley cup winning, defensive playmaker when he's not scoring goals!?
Yawn. I wasn't bashing him. I was just
pointing out that paying someone 2.5 million more
to score 30-35 goals more isn't nearly as bad
as baseballcoach seems to think.

To your point though, you don'tPay someone
7+ million to do all those things. You pay
them to produce and that's exactly What Kovy does every year.

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07-03-2010, 08:17 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Hey it beats paying 7+ for a 12g scorer though, don't it?
Tell you what. I want you to imagine a 2-on-2 shinny game, Gomez/Gionta versus Kovalchuk/Afinogenov.

Which pair do you think would win the game? Assume golatenders of equal calibre.

My MONEY would be on Gomez and Gionta. They're more complete players, more determined, smarter, better positionally and care more about backchecking and breaking up the other side's plays.

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07-03-2010, 08:25 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Tell you what. I want you to imagine a 2-on-2 shinny game, Gomez/Gionta versus Kovalchuk/Afinogenov.

Which pair do you think would win the game? Assume golatenders of equal calibre.

My MONEY would be on Gomez and Gionta. They're more complete players, more determined, smarter, better positionally and care more about backchecking and breaking up the other side's plays.
I'd have to disagree. Kovalchuk is the 2nd best sniper in the league. He's great at protecting the puck and he can beat yoU pretty much anyway you can imagine. As much as I like Gomez and Gionta, more space on the ice ALWAYS favours a talented side (same for just about any sport). Having said that in a real 5 on 5 playoff game, id take the Gionta-Gomez package.

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07-03-2010, 08:32 AM
  #54
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10 years, $10 millions, boy, hockey is not baseball. 5 years max and then the actual rookies are gonna take the lead.

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07-03-2010, 08:50 AM
  #55
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[QUOTE=BaseballCoach;26722001]Tell you what. I want you to imagine a 2-on-2 shinny game, Gomez/Gionta versus Kovalchuk/Afinogenov.

Which pair do you think would win the game? Assume golatenders of equal calibre.

My MONEY would be on Gomez and Gionta. They're more complete players, more determined, smarter, better positionally and care more about backchecking and breaking up the other side's plays.[/QUOTE

You would lose all your money then, but since neither of us can prove this. Why don't we stick with the facts.

Let's drop it I didn't want to completely derail the thread, but I found it comical that you would bash a team for paying one of the games most prolific scorers elite money, but you're in love with gomez who is 2.5 million less.

Posting from an Iphone sucks.

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07-03-2010, 08:56 AM
  #56
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[QUOTE=BaseballCoach;26722001]Tell you what. I want you to imagine a 2-on-2 shinny game, Gomez/Gionta versus Kovalchuk/Afinogenov.

Which pair do you think would win the game? Assume golatenders of equal calibre.

My MONEY would be on Gomez and Gionta. They're more complete players, more determined, smarter, better positionally and care more about backchecking and breaking up the other side's plays.[/QUOTE

You would lose all your money then, but since neither of us can prove this. Why don't we stick with the facts.

Let's drop it I didn't want to completely derail the thread, but I found it comical that you would bash a team for paying one the games most prolific scoters elite money, but you're in love with gomez who is 2.5 million less.

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07-03-2010, 08:57 AM
  #57
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If Kovy sign with the Isles he defenitely have zero ambition and see only $$$$$$

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07-03-2010, 09:31 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I found it comical that you would bash a team for paying one the games most prolific scoters elite money, but you're in love with gomez who is 2.5 million less.
Gomez is overpaid by $1.4M IMO, and has four years left. In two years, he will be tradeable to teams with cap space, since his salary will average only $5M the final two years of his contract.

Given his defensive weaknesses and lack of team play, Kovalchuk would be overpaid by perhaps $7M per year times 10 years.

And you wonder why I think it's a problem.

Gomez is a team player. Kovalchuk can be a DRAG on a team. Atlanta traded him away mid-season last year and their place in the standings didn't suffer one bit. That should tell us something. When Ryan Smyth was traded by Edmonton at the deadline 3 years ago, a heart-sand-soul TEAM player, the team sunk like a rock after that.

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07-03-2010, 09:32 AM
  #59
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People who compare Kovalchuk's demands with Crosby and Ovechkin have to understand that both these guys weren't UFA when they signed their contracts.

Kovalchuk is right behind Ovechkin for goals in the last 5 years.
He never got any real support in Atlanta and can't be blamed for New Jersey's loss int he playoffs.

He is the real deal and if I was a Gm, I'd find a way to make him fit on my team and deal with the rest later.

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07-03-2010, 09:34 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I'd have to disagree. Kovalchuk is the 2nd best sniper in the league. He's great at protecting the puck and he can beat yoU pretty much anyway you can imagine. As much as I like Gomez and Gionta, more space on the ice ALWAYS favours a talented side (same for just about any sport). Having said that in a real 5 on 5 playoff game, id take the Gionta-Gomez package.
Well, you agree with my point 5-on-5 ion the real NHL. Good!

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07-03-2010, 09:49 AM
  #61
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Atleast he won't end up in Toronto...

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07-03-2010, 10:10 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
The $64 thousand question. He is perhaps yet another product of the post-Communist rebound era in Russia. The prevailing Russian ideology today is not based on a merit-based free market system where hard work and providing value to others is rewarded. Even though the supposedly Communist regime (which was nothing more than a fascist regime in practice) was overthrown, the PEOPLE had been subjected to more than 75 years of propaganda bashing classical free enterprise and equating success in business with evil. Kovalchuk grew up in a modern Russia where business success is too often obtained by force, through monopolies, extortion, gangsterism, private goon squads, political connections, etc. It's not that these things can't happen in other countries, too, but in the West we see these phenomena as FLAWS and not as the NORM. The sense of entitlement is a problem for the whole Russian business class and society, and its effects trickle down to the "middle class" and average person, too. Getting rich is secretly admired, the HOW of it completely downplayed.
What the **** are you on about? Maybe he feels he is entitled to such money, erm, because people actually offer him that much money? Basic capitalism fellas.

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07-03-2010, 10:27 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
10 years in New York at a $100 million and I guarantee the Islanders still never come close to winning the Cup.
I agree with this. He will bring that franchise even lower than it is right now if thats possible. One poster referred to the Isles cupboard being full of great prospects. If that is so then why do you need Kovalchuk? With his salary he will gobble up 25 minutes per game which will kill 3rd and 4th line prospect guys from getting any minutes. You watch Atlanta become a much better team with the young core of players plus the 2 guys from New Jersey with no Kovalchuk around. I do not like players like Kovalchuk and Ovechkin, all flash but no substance, and if you don't agree with that statement, then just watch either of them shine in any game that matters. Hockey is a team sport and when it matters teams will devote 1-2 guys against Kovy and Ovy and it's game over. It is not a hate for Russian players either, I just dont like it when other players have to do the dirty work and get 1 million per year (The guys teams say you have to have in order to win) and watch a non penalty killing non shot blocking guy get 8-10 million it makes no sense.

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07-03-2010, 10:27 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
Well done

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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
If kovy flops, this franchise is in gigantic trouble. I dont think this has anything to do with finding the missing piece on your hockey club.

IMO, this is more of marketing move where the isles are going after a marquee talent in order to get some buzz going around the city and ultimately, I think they hope kovalchuk is the guy who builds the new arena that the isles desperately need.

The stakes are much higher than the size of this contract.
Good point.

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07-03-2010, 10:33 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Gomez is overpaid by $1.4M IMO, and has four years left. In two years, he will be tradeable to teams with cap space, since his salary will average only $5M the final two years of his contract.

Given his defensive weaknesses and lack of team play, Kovalchuk would be overpaid by perhaps $7M per year times 10 years.

And you wonder why I think it's a problem.

Gomez is a team player. Kovalchuk can be a DRAG on a team. Atlanta traded him away mid-season last year and their place in the standings didn't suffer one bit. That should tell us something. When Ryan Smyth was traded by Edmonton at the deadline 3 years ago, a heart-sand-soul TEAM player, the team sunk like a rock after that.
First, Gomez cap hit stays the same regardless what point in the contract he is traded so no team is picking him up with 2 years left and a 7+ million cap hit.

Second you think Gomez is worth more then Kovalchuk? Coach, I think you should stick to baseball. Arbitrarily assigning a value to either of these players is foolish and then you think Kovalchuk is only worth 3-5 million. Kovy is an elite player, plain and simple and will be paid accordingly.

Gomez is not an elite player getting paid elite money and the Habs are sufferng because of his contract. Put any spin you want on it because if you compare 7 million contracts, Gomez gets paid more then Iginla, Thornton, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Backstrom and only gets paid $400k less then Nash. Tell me again which contract would be worse?

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07-03-2010, 10:39 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
The $64 thousand question. He is perhaps yet another product of the post-Communist rebound era in Russia. The prevailing Russian ideology today is not based on a merit-based free market system where hard work and providing value to others is rewarded. Even though the supposedly Communist regime (which was nothing more than a fascist regime in practice) was overthrown, the PEOPLE had been subjected to more than 75 years of propaganda bashing classical free enterprise and equating success in business with evil. Kovalchuk grew up in a modern Russia where business success is too often obtained by force, through monopolies, extortion, gangsterism, private goon squads, political connections, etc. It's not that these things can't happen in other countries, too, but in the West we see these phenomena as FLAWS and not as the NORM. The sense of entitlement is a problem for the whole Russian business class and society, and its effects trickle down to the "middle class" and average person, too. Getting rich is secretly admired, the HOW of it completely downplayed.
Why are you spewing your garbage pseudo intellectual psycho babble here. Did you just fall off the pseudo-university-turnip-truck ?

Russians are human beings just like any other person on the planet. They have the same moral standards and ethics as any other normal person that you would find anywhere in the world. Why don't you try getting out a little and meet people from different cultures instead of blowing crap out your rearend safely seated at your computer terminal brainwashing yourself with your political propaganda. Kovalchuk earned his future nhl contract with talent and a hard work ethic.


Last edited by Smoke Monster: 07-03-2010 at 11:32 AM.
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Old
07-03-2010, 11:09 AM
  #67
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NHL hockey fans wonder why in amazement when Russian players leave for their own country, it's because of the constant subtle racist attitude they get from a large minority of North Americans. You even find it on these forums on a regular basis not to mention that it's been part of the mainstream hockey tv commentary for years; that's enough evidence that it is a widespread occurence throughout the nhl hockey league.

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07-03-2010, 11:20 AM
  #68
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Euh no, Isles still have over $2M on cap to Yashin until 2014-15.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...YI&season=1011
Damn! Yashin's lottery winnings will run out in five years and his cap hit for this season is 4.755 mil.

Signing Kovy to that deal will be awful. He is worth, at most 8 mil, and nothing more. In this day and age, I do not think it is feasible having all that money tied up in one player, unless you feel your players with entry level contracts will be able to compete for the Cup before their contracts expire.

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07-03-2010, 11:44 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Kovy wasn't the missing piece to get the Devils over the top, and the Devils have a good solid team. He certainly won't be the missing piece to put the Islanders over the top. He could well be the anchor that sinks the franchise however.
Or the player who makes them competitive again.

Point is, he is a hot commodity for a reason. Every NHL GM knows how good he is and how much better he will make their team. Over his career, despite the shortcomings of the team around him, he has earned the right to demand such a salary. In comparison, last years big UFA, Marian Gaborik, has done a lot less than Kovalchuk but walked away with 7.5 M$ per year. And many will tell you, that signing paid off right away.

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07-03-2010, 01:46 PM
  #70
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Or the player who makes them competitive again.

Point is, he is a hot commodity for a reason. Every NHL GM knows how good he is and how much better he will make their team. Over his career, despite the shortcomings of the team around him, he has earned the right to demand such a salary. In comparison, last years big UFA, Marian Gaborik, has done a lot less than Kovalchuk but walked away with 7.5 M$ per year. And many will tell you, that signing paid off right away.
The problem is paying someone almost 20% of your cap space. You may not have the money needed to fill out a competitive roster. If he were a center than I might consider it.

Despite what I have said, I would absolutely love him on the Habs. Think about him playing with Gomez and/or Plekanec or getting set up for a shot on the half boards on the PP from Markov and Subban. The only way that could happen is if we trade Kosty and Hamrlik and get no salaries back. Afterwards, we would sign a cheap replacement for Hamr. Doable but very difficult to realize.

I think Kovy is taking his time to make the right decision for himself. If it is all about the money, he will take the Isles offer or one in the KHL. He may also be mulling over a few teams and/or is waiting for the team of his choice to clear some cap space.

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07-03-2010, 01:51 PM
  #71
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This can't be possible, when will this madness stop ????

First the isles are stuck with Yashin (who still has a 2.2M$ caphit), then they sign Rick DiPietro 16 years at 4.5M$ a year (can you believe his contract will end in 2021!!!), now they want to pay 100M$ for 10 years for Kovy.

What will they do when Tavares and all the talented prospect they have will be asking for a new contract?

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07-03-2010, 02:53 PM
  #72
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This can't be possible, when will this madness stop ????

First the isles are stuck with Yashin (who still has a 2.2M$ caphit), then they sign Rick DiPietro 16 years at 4.5M$ a year (can you believe his contract will end in 2021!!!), now they want to pay 100M$ for 10 years for Kovy.

What will they do when Tavares and all the talented prospect they have will be asking for a new contract?
Tavares new contract:27 years 200 million. Wang strikes again! LOL


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07-03-2010, 03:12 PM
  #73
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Tavares new contract:27 years 200 million. Wang strikes again! LOL

Backloaded to supplement Tavares' Social Security.

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07-03-2010, 03:17 PM
  #74
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another dumb move by the Isles.....

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07-03-2010, 03:38 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
NHL hockey fans wonder why in amazement when Russian players leave for their own country, it's because of the constant subtle racist attitude they get from a large minority of North Americans. You even find it on these forums on a regular basis not to mention that it's been part of the mainstream hockey tv commentary for years; that's enough evidence that it is a widespread occurence throughout the nhl hockey league.
I don't know if it actually has influence on these players going back to Russia, but it's really annoying indeed

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