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Old
07-04-2010, 12:19 AM
  #51
Bort Sampson
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Originally Posted by defer View Post
Why is carle in every flyers proposal? if he was that good you would not want to trade him. and if he is awesome and you only want to trade him because of ur ****** cap situation in 3 years...guess what...thats not the ducks' problem.

Sbisa is held very high in most ducks fans minds including mine.

I went to the boston, flyers, rangers games at the start of the season last year. and while he was not a stud or anything, he was solid and has potential considering he is only 20 years old.

and played EXTREMELY well on the highest stage(Olympics) this year as well.
Excuse me? You saw him play for the Flyers two seasons ago and you thought he was "solid"?

Let's be honest. The only thing that made Sbisa stand out was his energy. He made dumb plays pinching in the offensive zone, didn't net one goal, and was a liability more times than not in his own zone. He was basically a young defenseman playing like a young defenseman. It was great to have that kind of energy on the roster, but to say that he was "solid" while he was in a Flyers' uniform means that you never saw him play live.

I did. I love the kid as a player and want him back. I watched him in the Olympics. He's going to be a top-4 in this league eventually. But don't try to sit there and tell Flyers fans he was more than he was, because we were the ones who had to watch him make cute rookie mistakes for half a season. He should have never played that many games that season, and only played out of necessity.

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Old
07-04-2010, 12:23 AM
  #52
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I guess I don't hear much about him because the Ducks aren't exactly the biggest market in the NHL, but when we traded him the Flyers organization thought he was going to be a top pairing defenseman within the next 2 years. I figured combined with the fact that he didn't crack the Ducks' top 4, and didn't exactly light up juniors as a 20 year old, I figured he wasn't progressing on the fast track many had expected. I guess I'm wrong then, but if you ask me, he doesn't have he value now he did when we traded him.

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Old
07-04-2010, 12:42 AM
  #53
defer*
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
Excuse me? You saw him play for the Flyers two seasons ago and you thought he was "solid"?

Let's be honest. The only thing that made Sbisa stand out was his energy. He made dumb plays pinching in the offensive zone, didn't net one goal, and was a liability more times than not in his own zone. He was basically a young defenseman playing like a young defenseman. It was great to have that kind of energy on the roster, but to say that he was "solid" while he was in a Flyers' uniform means that you never saw him play live.

I did. I love the kid as a player and want him back. I watched him in the Olympics. He's going to be a top-4 in this league eventually. But don't try to sit there and tell Flyers fans he was more than he was, because we were the ones who had to watch him make cute rookie mistakes for half a season. He should have never played that many games that season, and only played out of necessity.
no i flew from cali to boston and then to phili then to newyork THIS PAST YEAR while he was with the ducks

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Old
07-04-2010, 12:47 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I guess I don't hear much about him because the Ducks aren't exactly the biggest market in the NHL, but when we traded him the Flyers organization thought he was going to be a top pairing defenseman within the next 2 years. I figured combined with the fact that he didn't crack the Ducks' top 4, and didn't exactly light up juniors as a 20 year old, I figured he wasn't progressing on the fast track many had expected. I guess I'm wrong then, but if you ask me, he doesn't have he value now he did when we traded him.
He was not a top 4 on the ducks and the ducks did not want him to stay in the nhl if he was not going to get top 4 minutes. it was not that he could not play on the team it was that they have alot of faith in him and want him to develop rather then get 3 pairing minutes for 2 years till he is ready.

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07-04-2010, 12:52 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
Excuse me? You saw him play for the Flyers two seasons ago and you thought he was "solid"?

Let's be honest. The only thing that made Sbisa stand out was his energy. He made dumb plays pinching in the offensive zone, didn't net one goal, and was a liability more times than not in his own zone. He was basically a young defenseman playing like a young defenseman. It was great to have that kind of energy on the roster, but to say that he was "solid" while he was in a Flyers' uniform means that you never saw him play live.

I did. I love the kid as a player and want him back. I watched him in the Olympics. He's going to be a top-4 in this league eventually. But don't try to sit there and tell Flyers fans he was more than he was, because we were the ones who had to watch him make cute rookie mistakes for half a season. He should have never played that many games that season, and only played out of necessity.
I think you need to work on reading comprehension. Just saying.

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Old
07-04-2010, 01:01 AM
  #56
Bort Sampson
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Originally Posted by defer View Post
no i flew from cali to boston and then to phili then to newyork THIS PAST YEAR while he was with the ducks
You said you saw him "last year", but then refer to the Olympics as "this year". Most people usually interchange "season" and "year", so I'm used to the change.

Even still, I watched that game too. Sbisa wasn't solid. Made the same mistakes he did when he was with the Flyers. He's just no ready to be a top-4 in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duxfever View Post
I think you need to work on reading comprehension. Just saying.
Not to be a dick, but what are you actually adding to the thread?

Nice troll, bra.

Even if they were two different seasons, it's not as if he can now step into a good top-4 defense a year later. He makes a ton of mistakes and he's still young. He has to be paired with a better defensive partner to cover for him, which brings down a first or second pairing.

I've had an interest in this kid and have followed him since he was drafted by the Flyers. Like I said, he's going to be a top-4 defenseman eventually, but he is far from being "solid" in any sense of the word.


Last edited by Bort Sampson: 07-04-2010 at 01:13 AM.
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Old
07-04-2010, 01:50 AM
  #57
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those mistake are made by everyone at his age IMO. noone is saying that he is on the same level as doughty but to say that he is LESS valuable now then he was a year ago is crazy. he played great in the olympics and is only going to get better after he grows into his body and gets more size on him.

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Old
07-04-2010, 02:28 AM
  #58
Bort Sampson
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Originally Posted by defer View Post
those mistake are made by everyone at his age IMO. noone is saying that he is on the same level as doughty but to say that he is LESS valuable now then he was a year ago is crazy. he played great in the olympics and is only going to get better after he grows into his body and gets more size on him.
That wasn't what I was debating. Look at the post of yours I quoted.

I was saying your assessment of Sbisa as "solid" is way, way off. You can't just throw that out there. If Sbisa was expected to take a regular shift in the top-4 he'd be a liability. His whole selling point, especially immediately after he was drafted, was that he plays well for his age.

I'm not going to talk about trade value because none of have any idea about actual trade value. If I had to guess, he's either slightly higher or slightly lower than his trade value when he was traded for Pronger.

Luckily, Anaheim seemingly lets their developing players actually develop, so great for them. The Flyers really screwed up his development by bringing him up early and playing him with sub-par partners (Alberts, Vaananen, and Coburn).

Also, isn't this the last year of Sbisa's entry level contract?

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Old
07-04-2010, 02:59 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
That wasn't what I was debating. Look at the post of yours I quoted.

I was saying your assessment of Sbisa as "solid" is way, way off. You can't just throw that out there. If Sbisa was expected to take a regular shift in the top-4 he'd be a liability. His whole selling point, especially immediately after he was drafted, was that he plays well for his age.

I'm not going to talk about trade value because none of have any idea about actual trade value. If I had to guess, he's either slightly higher or slightly lower than his trade value when he was traded for Pronger.

Luckily, Anaheim seemingly lets their developing players actually develop, so great for them. The Flyers really screwed up his development by bringing him up early and playing him with sub-par partners (Alberts, Vaananen, and Coburn).

Also, isn't this the last year of Sbisa's entry level contract?
yes which is why i would love for him to spend another year in the AHL and finish his development before we use his in the broad scale of our season

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Old
07-04-2010, 07:25 AM
  #60
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Carle is a product of Pronger/Timmonen. He's a good player when paired with a world class defender. He's below average when paired with an average defenceman. A year ago Flyer fans would have dumped Carle for nothing just to get his caphit off the books. One year with Pronger his value increase - but its smoke and mirrors.

Ducks don't do this!

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Old
07-04-2010, 08:03 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
Edmonton is stupid to keep that uproven Taylor Hall, then. They should deal him to us for proven top-six forward Jason Blake! See how that sort of thing sounds?
There's nothing like using an absolute extreme to try and disprove someone.

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07-04-2010, 09:21 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
There's nothing like using an absolute extreme to try and disprove someone.
It's hockeyfuturesitis: Fans of a team overvalue their own players while at the same time undervalue the players of other teams.

Anaheim isn't a team looking to win a Cup in the next 2 or 3 years so it makes more sense for them to develop Sbisa into a top 4 player at a lower cost then get an established top 4 player in Carle at a higher cost. It doesn't mean Carle isn't a better player, it's just that Sbisa is more valuable to Anaheim in their current situation.

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07-04-2010, 10:17 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
You got to add Perry into that deal or the Fliers won't answer the phone.

Seriously Sbisa is worth more then Carle and the Ducks are looking for more of a defensive/tough dman are they not?
We'll give you Jeff Finger

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Old
07-04-2010, 11:09 AM
  #64
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Carle is grossly overrated by some people here.

Ducks would be stupid to trade Sbisa for Carle, the value is not there and Ducks dont need a d-man like Carle.

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Old
07-04-2010, 12:52 PM
  #65
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This thread is hilarious, Flyer's fans want Sbisa back and want to give up a player known for being a product of elite defenseman (trust me, we know what average d-men can do with elite partners).

Then when we shoot the trade down, they proceed to attack Sbisa and tell us he's not developing as planned. After we explain that he's developing just fine and he's even more highly regarded than a year ago, they blame it on our market not being big enough to inform them about our prospects .

Excuse us if we don't want to give up on our top prospect, because he hasn't cracked the lineup as a 20 year old. This is the same brilliant logic that would have had Bobby Ryan shipped out for scraps.

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Old
07-04-2010, 12:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
There's nothing like using an absolute extreme to try and disprove someone.
Maybe, but am I wrong? Not at all. I guess a better comparable is if the Flyers were to trade JVR to the Habs for AKost(just ignore the cap issues for a second). JVR has a ton of promise, but didn't do amazing in his rookie year and isn't established in the least, whereas AKost is. Now do you see how faulty the logic is?

Sbisa still projects as potentially a top-pairing guy, and nothing's really changed with that. Carle has probably levelled out as a solid #3-4. Even if the Ducks were in win-now mode, they could probably get a fair bit better value for Sbisa, if they wanted to trade him.

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Old
07-04-2010, 01:16 PM
  #67
defer*
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Carle is a product of Pronger/Timmonen. He's a good player when paired with a world class defender. He's below average when paired with an average defenceman. A year ago Flyer fans would have dumped Carle for nothing just to get his caphit off the books. One year with Pronger his value increase - but its smoke and mirrors.

Ducks don't do this!
as a ducks fan i have seen what average defenders playing HHoF defenders can do. just llook at the 07 ducks defense and tell me that the pressence of scotty and prongs did not make EVERYONE overachieve.

scotty-beauchemin
pronger-o'dennell
kent huskins-joe dipenta

.......and how look and all of them except the big 2. o'donnell was a below average defender for the kings who were happy to see him go.

beauchemin(who was my favorite player along with mcdonald at the time) is not an overpayed average defender for the leafs.

the ducks do not want trash defenders being carried by future HHoF defenders.

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Old
07-04-2010, 06:54 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Buck Naked View Post
This thread is hilarious, Flyer's fans want Sbisa back and want to give up a player known for being a product of elite defenseman (trust me, we know what average d-men can do with elite partners).

Then when we shoot the trade down, they proceed to attack Sbisa and tell us he's not developing as planned. After we explain that he's developing just fine and he's even more highly regarded than a year ago, they blame it on our market not being big enough to inform them about our prospects .

Excuse us if we don't want to give up on our top prospect, because he hasn't cracked the lineup as a 20 year old. This is the same brilliant logic that would have had Bobby Ryan shipped out for scraps.
That was the part that made me chuckle.

When Anaheim fans said "No way." some of the Philly fans jump in to say "But Sbisa sucks!" Well, if he sucks, why do these people want him back? Anaheim would be foolish to make this trade. Carle isn't going to suddenly stabilize an obviously questionable blue line. Sbisa's upside is greater than Carle, and his Olympic performance did nothing to lower his value.

The only reason Sbisa was sent down was because 1) Anaheim played poorly last season and 2) He couldn't be called up and down, so Anaheim took the safe route, which they felt would further his development. It had nothing to do with not being able to crack the line-up. I think most Anaheim fans would have preferred him over at least one or two of the other defensemen who did play.

Carle makes no sense for Anaheim, while Sbisa is the beginning of Anaheim's new young era of blue liners.

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Old
07-04-2010, 08:45 PM
  #69
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That was the part that made me chuckle.

When Anaheim fans said "No way." some of the Philly fans jump in to say "But Sbisa sucks!" Well, if he sucks, why do these people want him back? Anaheim would be foolish to make this trade. Carle isn't going to suddenly stabilize an obviously questionable blue line. Sbisa's upside is greater than Carle, and his Olympic performance did nothing to lower his value.

The only reason Sbisa was sent down was because 1) Anaheim played poorly last season and 2) He couldn't be called up and down, so Anaheim took the safe route, which they felt would further his development. It had nothing to do with not being able to crack the line-up. I think most Anaheim fans would have preferred him over at least one or two of the other defensemen who did play.

Carle makes no sense for Anaheim, while Sbisa is the beginning of Anaheim's new young era of blue liners.
This this this. Finally someone understands

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Old
07-04-2010, 09:10 PM
  #70
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We can't get Sbisa back? Oh, he sucks then.

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