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Possibility of Moving Suter

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Old
07-05-2010, 12:56 PM
  #26
roseyc
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So if we give Ryan $6 million and move Suter, how are we going to re-sign Weber? According to your logic, if it's going to cost us $5.5 to keep Suter and Weber each, at the minimum, how could we keep Ryan and Weber? It does not compute in my head. If we trade Dumont and Tootoo, it saves us the money for the next two years, and while that we help us retain Weber, it won't help us retain Ryan or Suter. We will find a way to keep both of them. There is no way that Poile is going to let either of them go.
I doubt the Preds would ever do this deal. But either if we keep Suter or trade for Ryan I think that we will be able to sign them. This franchise can't keep the route of depending revenue sharing to bail them out. They need to do like most owners do is put a product so that they can sellout the season tickets. It's so embarassing that we get in the playoffs and all the local media talks about is we are 2,000 short of a sellout. From the interview with the new chairman I think that they knew that Suter and Weber are coming up for their big payday. If we can't keep them then this franchise won't last.

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07-05-2010, 01:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
I doubt the Preds would ever do this deal. But either if we keep Suter or trade for Ryan I think that we will be able to sign them. This franchise can't keep the route of depending revenue sharing to bail them out. They need to do like most owners do is put a product so that they can sellout the season tickets. It's so embarassing that we get in the playoffs and all the local media talks about is we are 2,000 short of a sellout. From the interview with the new chairman I think that they knew that Suter and Weber are coming up for their big payday. If we can't keep them then this franchise won't last.
The plan since Leipold's day has been to draft, develop, and then re-sign our own star players. We hadn't struck gold yet...so we signed Legwand and Erat to long-term deals hoping they would be core players and also vets like Kariya, Arnott, Sullivan, and Dumont to keep the team competitive in the meanwhile.

No one has or will have a cap hit of greater than $4.5 mil until Weber and Suter are signed. They are the homegrown (super)stars that we've been waiting for since 1998 and the team will do everything in their power to re-sign them.

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07-05-2010, 02:00 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
If Sutes and Webs can both be signed long term deals 10 years 5.5 million per. That would be more than doable from a Preda perspective. I'm hoping that's the type of deal we see
Agreed. Ten years of these two would be terrific.

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07-05-2010, 06:50 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
Agreed. Ten years of these two would be terrific.

For a team that sells out nightly and has fans scrounging for tickets yes this would be one heck of a deal. Nashville is not the place. Fans in Tennessee are fickle, sure there are 7500 or so of us diehards but if the team does not WIN especially in the playoffs now this is not Detroit, Toronto, , Calgary or a couple other places that sell out just because. Look at the Titians last year and the number of people that showed up after there start, look at the Vol's who for the first time in years have not sold out over the past two seasons.

11 mil for Suter and Weber would equal 22% of the teams imposed salary at this point and a disaster in keeping the team here. The front office must make moves to better the team sooner rather than later or the days of 5500 people at the game will return and the team will go away.

A big payday is coming for Suter and Weber. A plan had better be in place to keep one of them, Weber would be my choice and move Suter to improve the team offensivley.

Will it happen now I doubt it, what I think will happen both Suter and Weber play out there contracts and make a HUGE payday somewhere else and the Preds lose both.

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07-05-2010, 07:03 PM
  #30
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
For a team that sells out nightly and has fans scrounging for tickets yes this would be one heck of a deal. Nashville is not the place. Fans in Tennessee are fickle, sure there are 7500 or so of us diehards but if the team does not WIN especially in the playoffs now this is not Detroit, Toronto, , Calgary or a couple other places that sell out just because. Look at the Titians last year and the number of people that showed up after there start, look at the Vol's who for the first time in years have not sold out over the past two seasons.

11 mil for Suter and Weber would equal 22% of the teams imposed salary at this point and a disaster in keeping the team here. The front office must make moves to better the team sooner rather than later or the days of 5500 people at the game will return and the team will go away.

A big payday is coming for Suter and Weber. A plan had better be in place to keep one of them, Weber would be my choice and move Suter to improve the team offensivley.

Will it happen now I doubt it, what I think will happen both Suter and Weber play out there contracts and make a HUGE payday somewhere else and the Preds lose both.
First off, if Weber wants to leave so badly and get a big pay day, why did he sign a 3 year deal that left him as a restricted free agent? He's going to get a big pay day and he's going to get it from the Preds.

If we move Suter for offense, who's going to take his place on the blue line? At best, Blum will have 2 years of experience on the blue line when Suter is a free agent. Josi may have a year under his belt. Franson will have three years under his belt and Klein under his belt. There may be a few others in Ellis and Roussel that may break thru or be entering the NHL at that point as well. We won't need offense to replace Suter, we're going to need another veteran defender to team with Weber, if, and that's a big if we trade Suter or lose him to free agency. Poile builds his teams from the goal out and he's not going to let his two marquee draft picks walk away or trade them away. So what if they comprise 22% of our payroll, they're worth it. Elite defensemen don't come along very often and to trade one or lose them via free agency is not something to take lightly and I don't think Poile does. He's structured Sullivan's and Dumont's contracts around the times that Weber and Suter's will both be up.

Do we want to be Anaheim? Have to trade one of Pronger or Niedermayer and then watch the other one retire a year later? Granted, that's not going to happen with their ages but my point is, two years ago, Anaheim had two of the premier defensemen in the league and don't have either of them now. Chicago isn't going to let Keith and Seabrook leave. Detroit will keep Lidstrom and Rafalski as long as they are willing and able to play for them. We will follow suit.

And to be honest, if we do trade one of them or let them walk via free agency, I will have a hard time singing on to be a season ticket holder much longer and that points to your earlier comments about losing fans because of salary issues and you know me, I'm a pretty staunch supporter of the team so when I say something like that, I truly mean it. I don't make a statement like that as a threat but as a reality on how I'll spend my money.

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07-05-2010, 07:28 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
First off, if Weber wants to leave so badly and get a big pay day, why did he sign a 3 year deal that left him as a restricted free agent? He's going to get a big pay day and he's going to get it from the Preds.

If we move Suter for offense, who's going to take his place on the blue line? At best, Blum will have 2 years of experience on the blue line when Suter is a free agent. Josi may have a year under his belt. Franson will have three years under his belt and Klein under his belt. There may be a few others in Ellis and Roussel that may break thru or be entering the NHL at that point as well. We won't need offense to replace Suter, we're going to need another veteran defender to team with Weber, if, and that's a big if we trade Suter or lose him to free agency. Poile builds his teams from the goal out and he's not going to let his two marquee draft picks walk away or trade them away. So what if they comprise 22% of our payroll, they're worth it. Elite defensemen don't come along very often and to trade one or lose them via free agency is not something to take lightly and I don't think Poile does. He's structured Sullivan's and Dumont's contracts around the times that Weber and Suter's will both be up.

Do we want to be Anaheim? Have to trade one of Pronger or Niedermayer and then watch the other one retire a year later? Granted, that's not going to happen with their ages but my point is, two years ago, Anaheim had two of the premier defensemen in the league and don't have either of them now. Chicago isn't going to let Keith and Seabrook leave. Detroit will keep Lidstrom and Rafalski as long as they are willing and able to play for them. We will follow suit.

And to be honest, if we do trade one of them or let them walk via free agency, I will have a hard time singing on to be a season ticket holder much longer and that points to your earlier comments about losing fans because of salary issues and you know me, I'm a pretty staunch supporter of the team so when I say something like that, I truly mean it. I don't make a statement like that as a threat but as a reality on how I'll spend my money.
Not much I disagree with there with the exception of Weber and Suter being worth the 22%. That severly hampers a balanced team that can score and defend. I think we need to keep one but not both long term. Additionally the salaries to Erat, Leggy and Arnott have hurt and continue to hurt, heck for that matter Toots contract and the one Ellis had hurt too. When the front office matches contracts to ability instead of fan popularity(Tootoo) things could get better on the ice and for the team surviving long term. Defense is deep here and even with the additions this team can't make it past round 1 in the playoffs. As much as both of us would like it 2nd lines will not get it done. Currently this team may be capable of 2.25 to 2.6 goals a game for the regular season. With a PP that is really not improved. With the D they should make round 1 again and DONE again, this is not enough. I will support this team as long as they are here but without success in the playoffs and the money that comes with it team movement will rear its head again and I can't imagine that there are any here that would want to endure that again.

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07-05-2010, 07:41 PM
  #32
roseyc
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
First off, if Weber wants to leave so badly and get a big pay day, why did he sign a 3 year deal that left him as a restricted free agent? He's going to get a big pay day and he's going to get it from the Preds.

If we move Suter for offense, who's going to take his place on the blue line? At best, Blum will have 2 years of experience on the blue line when Suter is a free agent. Josi may have a year under his belt. Franson will have three years under his belt and Klein under his belt. There may be a few others in Ellis and Roussel that may break thru or be entering the NHL at that point as well. We won't need offense to replace Suter, we're going to need another veteran defender to team with Weber, if, and that's a big if we trade Suter or lose him to free agency. Poile builds his teams from the goal out and he's not going to let his two marquee draft picks walk away or trade them away. So what if they comprise 22% of our payroll, they're worth it. Elite defensemen don't come along very often and to trade one or lose them via free agency is not something to take lightly and I don't think Poile does. He's structured Sullivan's and Dumont's contracts around the times that Weber and Suter's will both be up.

Do we want to be Anaheim? Have to trade one of Pronger or Niedermayer and then watch the other one retire a year later? Granted, that's not going to happen with their ages but my point is, two years ago, Anaheim had two of the premier defensemen in the league and don't have either of them now. Chicago isn't going to let Keith and Seabrook leave. Detroit will keep Lidstrom and Rafalski as long as they are willing and able to play for them. We will follow suit.

And to be honest, if we do trade one of them or let them walk via free agency, I will have a hard time singing on to be a season ticket holder much longer and that points to your earlier comments about losing fans because of salary issues and you know me, I'm a pretty staunch supporter of the team so when I say something like that, I truly mean it. I don't make a statement like that as a threat but as a reality on how I'll spend my money.
I think Suter is on the verge of being the next Lidstrom. That may be saying alot but I think he is. Weber reminds me of Pronger type. Weber I think can be better.Weber and Suter are different type of defenseman ..like you said Pronger and Neidemeyer were. The good news is that Weber and Suter haven't reach their potential. I would hate to see one or both reach their potential with another team. The only way I would trade one of them if Crosby or Ovechin come back. I agree you with you there aren't that many great defenseman in the league. We have two

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07-05-2010, 08:33 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Not much I disagree with there with the exception of Weber and Suter being worth the 22%. That severly hampers a balanced team that can score and defend. I think we need to keep one but not both long term. Additionally the salaries to Erat, Leggy and Arnott have hurt and continue to hurt, heck for that matter Toots contract and the one Ellis had hurt too. When the front office matches contracts to ability instead of fan popularity(Tootoo) things could get better on the ice and for the team surviving long term. Defense is deep here and even with the additions this team can't make it past round 1 in the playoffs. As much as both of us would like it 2nd lines will not get it done. Currently this team may be capable of 2.25 to 2.6 goals a game for the regular season. With a PP that is really not improved. With the D they should make round 1 again and DONE again, this is not enough. I will support this team as long as they are here but without success in the playoffs and the money that comes with it team movement will rear its head again and I can't imagine that there are any here that would want to endure that again.
I agree with you up to point. I think what you said for the most part is true. The future predicting by the contracts we have as you mentioned Erat, Leggy and Arnott have hurts us. Arnott not so much. We got all that we could out of Arnott. Since the fire sale. Legwand and Erat were given long term contracts to more or less signify that the Preds were still in business and that they weren't going anywhere. But since then Legwand has scored 15-20-11. Erat has scored 23-17-21. The Preds with a limited budget that is not anywhere close to what was projected for their salary. Both should be 25 -30 goal scorers according to their salaries. Toots was signed for his popularity. Which I think is a waste. I agree that we need to spend more on offense. I think we should do both. We need to win a round or two to solidify this franchise. I think management has to realize this. If it means lifting the self imposed cap for a year or two.

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07-05-2010, 09:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Not much I disagree with there with the exception of Weber and Suter being worth the 22%. That severly hampers a balanced team that can score and defend. I think we need to keep one but not both long term. Additionally the salaries to Erat, Leggy and Arnott have hurt and continue to hurt, heck for that matter Toots contract and the one Ellis had hurt too. When the front office matches contracts to ability instead of fan popularity(Tootoo) things could get better on the ice and for the team surviving long term. Defense is deep here and even with the additions this team can't make it past round 1 in the playoffs. As much as both of us would like it 2nd lines will not get it done. Currently this team may be capable of 2.25 to 2.6 goals a game for the regular season. With a PP that is really not improved. With the D they should make round 1 again and DONE again, this is not enough. I will support this team as long as they are here but without success in the playoffs and the money that comes with it team movement will rear its head again and I can't imagine that there are any here that would want to endure that again.
although at first blush you'd assume signing both weber and suter to big deals would hamper our ability to have scorers, it really wont. we can pull it off mainly by having the other 4 defensemen make no more than 4 to at most 5 million in aggregate. 16 to 17 million on the entire defense isnt unreasonable. add 5 mil for goaltending and we still have around 26 million for forwards. a top line making 13 million, a second line making 7 million and 6 million spread amongst the bottom two lines sounds doable...


it will likely mean we wont have a 6+ milllion dollar forward, but we can still have several 3-4.5 million dollar forwards

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07-05-2010, 11:51 PM
  #35
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What do you guys want from SJ for Suter? I had a deal like this on my boards.


Logan Couture (1st/2nd line 70 PT prospect, similar to Kadri)
1st Round Pick (1st Round Pick 20th-30th Overall)
Nick Petrecki (#3-4 Prospect D-Man)
Douglas Murray (#4-6 D-Man)



Ryan Suter (Franchise Defenseman)

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07-06-2010, 12:01 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
What do you guys want from SJ for Suter? I had a deal like this on my boards.


Logan Couture (1st/2nd line 70 PT prospect, similar to Kadri)
1st Round Pick (1st Round Pick 20th-30th Overall)
Nick Petrecki (#3-4 Prospect D-Man)
Douglas Murray (#4-6 D-Man)



Ryan Suter (Franchise Defenseman)


Are you serious? A franchise defenseman for spare parts? Couture would be a nice start but a late first round pick plus two guys that are lower end defensemen aren't even close to enough. Couture, Pavelski and at least another high end prospect and maybe we could talk.

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07-06-2010, 12:24 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post


Are you serious? A franchise defenseman for spare parts? Couture would be a nice start but a late first round pick plus two guys that are lower end defensemen aren't even close to enough. Couture, Pavelski and at least another high end prospect and maybe we could talk.
I forgot to add Setoguchi. The deal was like this

Setoguchi (Fleet 1st line scoring wing)
Couture
1st Round Pick
Petrecki
Murray

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07-06-2010, 12:33 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
I forgot to add Setoguchi. The deal was like this

Setoguchi (Fleet 1st line scoring wing)
Couture
1st Round Pick
Petrecki
Murray
The fact is...when you offer five assets in exchange for one to a team that is not rebuilding...it's not likely a good value to the other team involved. Nashville says thanks, but no thanks.

Additionally, if the theory is that we're gonna trade Suter due to financial reasons...where do we come up with the money for 4 other roster players and a pick down the line?

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07-06-2010, 12:04 PM
  #39
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plus, Trotz would turn Ryan into a penalty killing defenseman, so thepure goal scoring ability would be lost and we would be without Suter. A double wammy.

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07-07-2010, 11:38 PM
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The fact is...when you offer five assets in exchange for one to a team that is not rebuilding...it's not likely a good value to the other team involved. Nashville says thanks, but no thanks.

Additionally, if the theory is that we're gonna trade Suter due to financial reasons...where do we come up with the money for 4 other roster players and a pick down the line?
What would you want for Suter or Weber from te Sharks?

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07-08-2010, 12:34 AM
  #41
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What would you want for Suter or Weber from te Sharks?
More then you would want to pay.

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07-08-2010, 05:16 PM
  #42
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They are more valuable I think to the franchise itself then their value to other clubs.

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07-08-2010, 05:52 PM
  #43
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They are more valuable I think to the franchise itself then their value to other clubs.
Bingo

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