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Was the Pronger Trade Worth it?

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Old
07-06-2010, 12:40 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
That is probably the single best trade I've seen by the flyers.
Gilbert Dionne was the third guy..son of Marcel.


Clarke mainly went after Desjardins in that one and LeClair was a throw in ....Clarke got lucky on Leclair even he said so.

As far as Pronger....I go with Holmgren's take where he said "Was it too much..I don't know..ask me in 2-3 years." Don't know the exact quote but it was something along those lines. Let's face it Pronger was brought in here to win a cup...that was the goal in mortgaging some of our future. Hopefully, we sold Anaheim a bill of goods but they still did get a lot.

While I agree Lupul was overpaid..that was because Holmgren was the idiot that overrated him with that contract. As a result they had to sweeten the deal with Anaheim to take on that dumb contract. Probably cost us the third rounder. Lupul as player is not bad just had a bad contract..similar to Upshall who cost us a second rounder as well b/c of the bad contract. See a trend?

As far as Sbisa..ok maybe I'm pulling a Holmgren and overrating him as being a future impact D man....but the guy is like what 19 or 20? Although Carlson who was drafted behind him and we could have had instead of Eminger is further along in development Sbisa still has a lot of skill and time to develop so I wouldn't sell him short just yet.

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07-06-2010, 12:41 PM
  #27
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Pronger's value is not measured by the team's success or shortcoming unless he is a direct factor in the win or the loss. The fact that he WAS a direct contributor to the team's success is just a bonus. He did what was asked of him, and then he did more. We can't have expected more out of him.

We acquired Pronger with the goal of winning a Cup, not because it was his job to bring us a Cup.

The trade was worth it because if anyone went back in time, you would do the trade again. The only way the trade wouldnt be worth it is if you go back in time, knowing what we know now, and say that Pronger's contributions is not worthy of Lupul, Sbisa and the picks.

I take that trade every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Even without the Cup, although we certainly have more time to get that done with Pronger.

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07-06-2010, 12:42 PM
  #28
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Hadn't won a Stanley Cup final game since 1987?

Worth it.

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07-06-2010, 12:43 PM
  #29
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Easy. Yes. Next question.

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07-06-2010, 12:44 PM
  #30
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First Eastern Conference Championship in 13 years?

Worth it.

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07-06-2010, 12:44 PM
  #31
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Yes, he was worth it.

They rolled the dice and came up a little short, but without Pronger, we don't have that run, and likely even miss the playoffs. It's a pleasure to have him wearing orange and black.

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07-06-2010, 12:45 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Well IMO jury is obviously still out on this trade but the Flyers were 2 wins away from the trade accomplishing it's goal. Nevertheless, the costs are still being tabulated and becoming more clearer. I expect this thread to rise and fall in the upcoming years. With that here was the price thus far:

-Joffrey Lupul (serviceable winger that can net 20 goals per season on Avg)

-Former 1st rounder Luca Sbisa (Good young D man who should be an impact D man for years to come)

-2009 1st rounder (21st overall) John Moore (Projected as a solid D man)
*Pick was traded to Columbus by Anaheim in exhange for 2009 picks Kyle Palmieri (26th overall) and Matthew Clarke (37th overall-2nd round)

-2010 1st Rounder (29th overall) Emerson Etem

-2011 Conditional 3rd round pick to Anaheim (TBD)

Thoughts?
Yep it was worth it ,, Pronger was your best player last season

And your description of Lupul is off

-Injury prone , inconsistant and overpaid would be the words I would use to describe Lupul. There is a reason his name has come up in trade rumors involving Ducks all year

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07-06-2010, 12:46 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces View Post
Yes, he was worth it.

They rolled the dice and came up a little short, but without Pronger, we don't have that run, and likely even miss the playoffs. It's a pleasure to have him wearing orange and black.
I think a lot of people get caught up in how awesome it was to experience that run, from Round 0 to 4, because the Flyers lost the Cup. I understand the reasoning, but that was the best Flyers season I have ever experienced, and no loss of a Cup can take that away.

Of course, plenty of room for improvement

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07-06-2010, 12:47 PM
  #34
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Yes. Pronger had an enormously positive impact on the defensive pairings this year. He made Matt Carle look like a quality defenseman, and he allowed Kimmo and Coburn to avoid top line match-ups, plus the minutes he sucked up kept the 3rd pairing off the ice. Those players and picks we gave up will become some quality NHLers, but individually or combined I doubt they'll ever have the impact Pronger had, and will continue to have for several more seasons.

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07-06-2010, 12:49 PM
  #35
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I personally don't see it as clear cut as some. To say it's 100% worth it is very narrow in scope. Long term is where you assess this trade ultimately..especially if one or more of those picks turns out to be a stud. We'll see...

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07-06-2010, 12:50 PM
  #36
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I think the trade was definitely worth it... dunno about the 7 year contract tho...

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07-06-2010, 12:53 PM
  #37
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Absolutely 100% yes.

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07-06-2010, 01:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Yes. Pronger had an enormously positive impact on the defensive pairings this year. He made Matt Carle look like a quality defenseman, and he allowed Kimmo and Coburn to avoid top line match-ups, plus the minutes he sucked up kept the 3rd pairing off the ice. Those players and picks we gave up will become some quality NHLers, but individually or combined I doubt they'll ever have the impact Pronger had, and will continue to have for several more seasons.
For development reasons I have to say Pronger is important and hopefully it rubs off on the D men for years to come. There are a lot of intangibles he brings. I just wonder what people's thoughts would be if Giroux and Boucher didn't save the Flyers season as well as Holmgren and Snider's *****...

I'm sure the Pronger trade would also be judged differently since the Flyers didn't get him to miss the playoffs. Amazing what that last game did for this team. The stakes were so high. Hopefully, this year they won't have such an up and down season.

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07-06-2010, 01:01 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Long term is where you assess this trade ultimately..especially if one or more of those picks turns out to be a stud. We'll see...
They're trying to win a cup now; that's why they traded for Pronger in the first place. If we win a cup with Pronger are we really going to care if one of those picks turns out be a stud? Doubtful. Getting a player of Pronger's caliber is going to require giving up a lot, but at the end of the day I think his play justified what we gave up.

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07-06-2010, 01:01 PM
  #40
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Yup, totally worth it. Having said that, I do think he's a disruptive guy in the dressing room, something I suspected early in the season and the more I saw of his press conferences the more I believe it. His game is his upside and his mouth is his downside. I was getting a bit tired of his games with the media as the playoffs went on and even though he has said it's Richards' team many times, I'd like to see him take a step back (and Richards to take a step forward) in that department.

When the Chicago newspaper put the picture of him in a figure skater's outfit, I think it threw him. He pretended he hadn't seen it and from then on the swagger was gone. He can play the game as long as he controls it but when he's not in charge he gets his ego hurt.

I've also never heard him say he had a bad game, it's always "we" when it's bad or he makes insinuations that make the media guess what he's saying. The last interview with Richards when he said the difference in the Chi series was that his line didn't produce is what I really admire about him, he took the blame and he said it would haunt him all summer. Pronger had a couple of pretty average or worse games in the final but never made a comment anything like that.

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07-06-2010, 01:03 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And your description of Lupul is off

-Injury prone , inconsistant and overpaid would be the words I would use to describe Lupul. There is a reason his name has come up in trade rumors involving Ducks all year
This. Not a fan of Lupul's play; frustrating player to watch.

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07-06-2010, 01:09 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zone View Post
They're trying to win a cup now; that's why they traded for Pronger in the first place. If we win a cup with Pronger are we really going to care if one of those picks turns out be a stud? Doubtful. Getting a player of Pronger's caliber is going to require giving up a lot, but at the end of the day I think his play justified what we gave up.
Well that is sort of my point....we got him for the near term to HELP bring a cup. Some say that even if they fail in that goal it will be worth it. My contention is that it's not that clear cut....

We got Lindros for the same reasons...meanwhile Forsberg helped bring home the bacon ultimately for his team...

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07-06-2010, 01:10 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces View Post
Yes, he was worth it.

They rolled the dice and came up a little short, but without Pronger, we don't have that run, and likely even miss the playoffs. It's a pleasure to have him wearing orange and black.
We have no idea if this is true.

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07-06-2010, 01:13 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zone View Post
This. Not a fan of Lupul's play; frustrating player to watch.
Yes he was but only b/c of the 4M contact...if he was paid accordingly given his frustrating tendencies he wouldn't have seemed as bad. Anyway, Lupul is the strawman in the trade .....kind of hard to judge Sbisa just yet or Moore or Etem or for that matter Palmieri and Clarke.

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07-06-2010, 01:13 PM
  #45
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I will say this: If the Flyers use LTIR to skirt around his salary the last few years or if Snider gets some kind of out for his contract in the next CBA, then it will be worth it.

If Pronger retires at 40 and we take that cap hit for several years than it almost certainly wouldn't be worth it unless, of course, we won the Cup.

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07-06-2010, 01:16 PM
  #46
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Try a Poll

YES 100 X's
The move reaffirms my belief that Homer will always deal to win.

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07-06-2010, 01:20 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by flyersfan1221 View Post
YES 100 X's
The move reaffirms my belief that Homer will always deal to win.
Not a fan of polls...they always leave out the nuance of an argument for the most part but if the moderator wants to add a poll be my guess.

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07-06-2010, 01:22 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan1221 View Post
YES 100 X's
The move reaffirms my belief that Homer will always deal to win.
Not dealing to win has never been a criticism of Homer or, really, any GM of any financially sound team. Sure, some cash cows like, say, Toronto absolutely suck but that's because they have made some terrible moves, not because they aren't willing to spend to the Cap every year.

Homer just sucks in many other ways but of course he wants to win and will use every cent of Comcast's money to do it.

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07-06-2010, 01:25 PM
  #49
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If his name was Chris Prong, we still would call him Pronger

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07-06-2010, 01:29 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Not dealing to win has never been a criticism of Homer or, really, any GM of any financially sound team. Sure, some cash cows like, say, Toronto absolutely suck but that's because they have made some terrible moves, not because they aren't willing to spend to the Cap every year.

Homer just sucks in many other ways but of course he wants to win and will use every cent of Comcast's money to do it.
Homer and Snider definitely want to win but like you note...sometimes haste makes waste. Remember what the Rangers mortgaged to get that elusive cup and bury the 1940 chant. They basically traded away great players like Amonte and Weight for the whole Edmonton Oiler's dynasty team along with some Chicago players like Larmer. They got the cup and then a few year later they missed the playoffs 6 years in a row!

As far as Comcast and Lukko..think about it....when your franchise makes it all the way to the finals.....and to game 6 no less...do you think from a business standpoint (revenue) it was really a loss? Some teams we have to admit do operate purely in a Machiavellian business manner and why not..it's a business afterall. A team starts raking in the money once they advance into the second round for the most part. The rest as Snider would say...."Is all gravy."

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