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Old
07-05-2010, 06:22 PM
  #226
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Not replaced? Hey Jester, how many times NJ was #1 in our division?

All players were replaced and Luo's system still works. Hell, even Brodeur was replaced when he was injured.


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07-05-2010, 06:22 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I don't know. If the Devils lose Parise due to this deal, and they have 4 first round and 1 second round exits in the next 5 years, I think it's an awful contract even if Ilya puts up 450 pts in those seasons.
I don't think they'll lose him, Devs also added A-Train and Tallinder (who is solid), I think they'll have at least 1 deep run in the next 2-3 years assuming they don't keep running Brodeur into the ground.

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07-05-2010, 06:48 PM
  #228
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I don't think they'll lose him, Devs also added A-Train and Tallinder (who is solid), I think they'll have at least 1 deep run in the next 2-3 years assuming they don't keep running Brodeur into the ground.
This. I think people really downplay the importance of them signing Hedberg. He will help that team a hell of a lot next year.

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07-05-2010, 07:01 PM
  #229
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This. I think people really downplay the importance of them signing Hedberg. He will help that team a hell of a lot next year.
As if Brodeur's ego would let him play less than 65 games.

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07-05-2010, 10:26 PM
  #230
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I would be very surprised if any offer from the Flyers wasn't just a low-ball insult type of offer.

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07-05-2010, 10:45 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
He has better stats than Briere, sure. Last 5 years Kovalchuk has put up 135 GVT, while Briere is around 123 or so (again, RS+playoffs).

However, Briere has a special quality that he's a BETTER playoff player than he is a regular season player. That's a rare talent in the NHL, and it makes him worth a lot if you are playing in the NHL and not fantasy hockey.
Until that sneaky thing called reversion to mean sneaks up on you. As it tends to do.

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Not replaced? Hey Jester, how many times NJ was #1 in our division?

All players were replaced and Luo's system still works. Hell, even Brodeur was replaced when he was injured.
Kaktus, those players haven't been replaced. Stevens. Was not replaced. Nieds. Was not replaced. Rafalski. Was not replaced. Martin... was not replaced. Volchenkov was a nice acquisition, but they needed him with Martin, not on his own.

Lou's management leads to quality regular season clubs because they're steady and consistent in getting the most out of their squad. But they're not good teams.

You know how many playoff games the Devs have won since the lockout? 15. Lou has failed miserably at constructing rosters that can have success come playoff time since the lockout. They've had their depth on the blue line eroded without replacing it, and have lost offensive players without replacing them in the lineup with similar players.

I'm sure Lou is very happy with the division titles and playoff flame outs, though.

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07-05-2010, 10:49 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I don't think they'll lose him, Devs also added A-Train and Tallinder (who is solid), I think they'll have at least 1 deep run in the next 2-3 years assuming they don't keep running Brodeur into the ground.
I don't. They're low hanging fruit come playoff time. You're going to be able to trap their defense until they start getting some better puck handlers back there. They are also basically praying that Andy Greene can carry their blue line offense.

They're going to be a well structured team that is solid throughout the year with Brodeur backstopping 'em, but there isn't a lot to fear with the Devs. They're going to have to play REALLY boring hockey to be successful with that roster as of now.

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07-05-2010, 11:34 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I don't. They're low hanging fruit come playoff time. You're going to be able to trap their defense until they start getting some better puck handlers back there. They are also basically praying that Andy Greene can carry their blue line offense.

They're going to be a well structured team that is solid throughout the year with Brodeur backstopping 'em, but there isn't a lot to fear with the Devs. They're going to have to play REALLY boring hockey to be successful with that roster as of now.
My feelings are pretty much in between the two of these thoughts...I think their blueline has a bunch of parts that you'd want on your team but all together es no bueno.

If they were to resign Kovi, I think keeping him away from Parise may be key to their success. They are both big time proven scorers and being able to rely on their production as two separate entities could create major matchup problems as well as some serious varying looks on attack. From what I saw last year, when together they sacrificed too much of what made them go to coexist, even on the powerplay.

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07-05-2010, 11:51 PM
  #234
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My feelings are pretty much in between the two of these thoughts...I think their blueline has a bunch of parts that you'd want on your team but all together es no bueno.

If they were to resign Kovi, I think keeping him away from Parise may be key to their success. They are both big time proven scorers and being able to rely on their production as two separate entities could create major matchup problems as well as some serious varying looks on attack. From what I saw last year, when together they sacrificed too much of what made them go to coexist, even on the powerplay.
Don't get me wrong, they have some good parts, I love A-Train, and Greene and Tallinder are good players. However, Colin White is basically an empty shirt at this point, IMO. Just not an impressive defense at the end of their roster.

Kovalchuk will give 'em two legit scorers, but after that there's no one that really scares you. Bit of a problem... particularly given that their D doesn't help out at all, really.

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07-06-2010, 12:01 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Don't get me wrong, they have some good parts, I love A-Train, and Greene and Tallinder are good players. However, Colin White is basically an empty shirt at this point, IMO. Just not an impressive defense at the end of their roster.

Kovalchuk will give 'em two legit scorers, but after that there's no one that really scares you. Bit of a problem... particularly given that their D doesn't help out at all, really.
I wanna see what they look like with their new coach. I tend to agree with your forecast of how things will gel there, as far as personnel and talent goes, but Lou has put together teams that were more than the sum of their parts before. Tough to count them out.

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07-06-2010, 12:07 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
I wanna see what they look like with their new coach. I tend to agree with your forecast of how things will gel there, as far as personnel and talent goes, but Lou has put together teams that were more than the sum of their parts before. Tough to count them out.
Oh, they'll be tough to play against. But I can't see the squad they have really competing for a Cup come playoff time... similar to their fate every year since the lockout. What I find so interesting about what has gone down there is that it seemed so obvious that the problem was on defense for 'em, and he really hasn't addressed that problem. A-Train is a GREAT defensive addition, but he isn't going to address their problem of moving the puck up ice.

What's interesting is how much the Devs have benefited from the rest of the division having problems that let 'em stay ahead of 'em, despite giving away some talent. The Pens have been chronic slow starters, and get inconsistent play from MAF, etc. We've had our problems every year since the lockout. Rangers have no offense. Islanders are the Islanders.

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07-06-2010, 12:15 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Oh, they'll be tough to play against. But I can't see the squad they have really competing for a Cup come playoff time... similar to their fate every year since the lockout. What I find so interesting about what has gone down there is that it seemed so obvious that the problem was on defense for 'em, and he really hasn't addressed that problem. A-Train is a GREAT defensive addition, but he isn't going to address their problem of moving the puck up ice.

What's interesting is how much the Devs have benefited from the rest of the division having problems that let 'em stay ahead of 'em, despite giving away some talent. The Pens have been chronic slow starters, and get inconsistent play from MAF, etc. We've had our problems every year since the lockout. Rangers have no offense. Islanders are the Islanders.
Speaking of which, I wonder how much longer Ted Nolan's blacklisting will be.

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07-06-2010, 07:13 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I don't. They're low hanging fruit come playoff time. You're going to be able to trap their defense until they start getting some better puck handlers back there. They are also basically praying that Andy Greene can carry their blue line offense.

They're going to be a well structured team that is solid throughout the year with Brodeur backstopping 'em, but there isn't a lot to fear with the Devs. They're going to have to play REALLY boring hockey to be successful with that roster as of now.
I actually think they're going to be okay on that front. I mean, Tallinder certainly did well with those up-tempo Sabres teams, I think Volchenkov moves the puck pretty well, Greene is solid. I agree that White (and Salvador) are borderline useless, but they'll need to get rid of at least 1 of those guys to bring in Kovy, so I don't think they're totally done yet.

But that's a dangerous team, you have the Zajac-Parise pairing and the Kovalchuk-Arnott pairing on your top-2 lines with Elias and Langenbrunner fitting in there somewhere plus some guys like Clarkson and Rolston.

Plus, you have to keep in mind that we're one of the few teams thay may be able to execute that game plan against them. I can't see WSH or Pittsburgh doing it.

Kind of OT, but I wonder why the Devs were willing to give Volchenkov 4.25, but weren't willing to give Martin 5, not a big difference there and Martin had been with them for quite a few years.

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07-06-2010, 09:43 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I actually think they're going to be okay on that front. I mean, Tallinder certainly did well with those up-tempo Sabres teams, I think Volchenkov moves the puck pretty well, Greene is solid. I agree that White (and Salvador) are borderline useless, but they'll need to get rid of at least 1 of those guys to bring in Kovy, so I don't think they're totally done yet.

But that's a dangerous team, you have the Zajac-Parise pairing and the Kovalchuk-Arnott pairing on your top-2 lines with Elias and Langenbrunner fitting in there somewhere plus some guys like Clarkson and Rolston.

Plus, you have to keep in mind that we're one of the few teams thay may be able to execute that game plan against them. I can't see WSH or Pittsburgh doing it.

Kind of OT, but I wonder why the Devs were willing to give Volchenkov 4.25, but weren't willing to give Martin 5, not a big difference there and Martin had been with them for quite a few years.
NJ's defense isn't great, but they have some scoring. They will be ok.

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07-06-2010, 11:27 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
They're going to be a well structured team that is solid throughout the year with Brodeur backstopping 'em, but there isn't a lot to fear with the Devs. They're going to have to play REALLY boring hockey to be successful with that roster as of now.
That's why I think Kovalchuk is useless on that team. They are going to need to play themselves into trapping games even more now without Martin, and Kovy doesn't lend himself to that type of play. They have no top end defensemen on that roster to move the puck and compliment Kovy's abilities on the rush.

They would have been much better suited going after Gonchar and picking up something more modest on the wing. Also from what I saw of Arnott last year I'm not sure why they needed that addition at his salary as opposed to quality defense

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07-06-2010, 11:30 AM
  #241
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That's why I think Kovalchuk is useless on that team. They are going to need to play themselves into trapping games even more now without Martin, and Kovy doesn't lend himself to that type of play. They have no top end defensemen on that roster to move the puck and compliment Kovy's abilities on the rush.

They would have been much better suited going after Gonchar and picking up something more modest on the wing. Also from what I saw of Arnott last year I'm not sure why they needed that addition at his salary as opposed to quality defense
Well, I'm shocked they didn't re-sign Martin given that he signed a reasonable contract... and, yeah, I thought Gonchar made a ton of sense as well. One of my best friends is a Devs fan... he's not a happy camper these days. I haven't talked to him about this proposed Kovalchuk signing, though. Curious what he'll think about that.

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07-06-2010, 01:26 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, I'm shocked they didn't re-sign Martin given that he signed a reasonable contract... and, yeah, I thought Gonchar made a ton of sense as well. One of my best friends is a Devs fan... he's not a happy camper these days. I haven't talked to him about this proposed Kovalchuk signing, though. Curious what he'll think about that.
That team with Martin and Gonchar would have just enough offensive prowess from the D-line to keep that offense churning.

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07-06-2010, 01:44 PM
  #243
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Not replaced? Hey Jester, how many times NJ was #1 in our division?

All players were replaced and Luo's system still works. Hell, even Brodeur was replaced when he was injured.
It doesn't work in the spring anymore.

The great Devils teams were built around a Hall of Fame goalie (Brodeur), two Hall of Fame defenseman (Stevens & Neidermayer) and another all-star or near all-star level defenseman (Rafalski/Driver) and then a solid stay at home #4 (Daneyko/White).

Now they have a very good older goalie, that they play too much and isn't quite at that same level, no Hall of Fame level defenseman and not even an all-star level defenseman. They are also weak up the middle, with no #1 center, and no real top level #3 center.

They're still a very good regular season team, because they come to play every single night and never stop competing, and they are very consistant. Come playoff time their defense gets exposed when they start playing against th ebetter teams.

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07-06-2010, 02:15 PM
  #244
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It doesn't work in the spring anymore.

The great Devils teams were built around a Hall of Fame goalie (Brodeur), two Hall of Fame defenseman (Stevens & Neidermayer) and another all-star or near all-star level defenseman (Rafalski/Driver) and then a solid stay at home #4 (Daneyko/White).

Now they have a very good older goalie, that they play too much and isn't quite at that same level, no Hall of Fame level defenseman and not even an all-star level defenseman. They are also weak up the middle, with no #1 center, and no real top level #3 center.

They're still a very good regular season team, because they come to play every single night and never stop competing, and they are very consistant. Come playoff time their defense gets exposed when they start playing against th ebetter teams.
Still I am impressed with what they do. Devils still a top 4 team in the East and they are still mother****ers to play against.

Lou will find a way to fix their playoff problem. NJ is the best team in our Division for almost 20 years. No question about it.

By the way if Gaborik got 7.5M a year and he was injury prone you think 100% healthy Kovalchuk for 8.5 is overpaid? You still get a very consistent 40 goal scorer in his prime.

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07-06-2010, 02:51 PM
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Still I am impressed with what they do. Devils still a top 4 team in the East and they are still mother****ers to play against.

Lou will find a way to fix their playoff problem. NJ is the best team in our Division for almost 20 years. No question about it.

By the way if Gaborik got 7.5M a year and he was injury prone you think 100% healthy Kovalchuk for 8.5 is overpaid? You still get a very consistent 40 goal scorer in his prime.
That sentence presumes Gaborik is not overpaid.......Most anything looks good next to a Sather contract, but he's still overpaid.

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07-06-2010, 02:54 PM
  #246
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Still I am impressed with what they do. Devils still a top 4 team in the East and they are still mother****ers to play against.

Lou will find a way to fix their playoff problem. NJ is the best team in our Division for almost 20 years. No question about it.
Over the last 7 years (the 6 seasons since Stevens last played in the playoffs)

2004 - Round 1 - 5 games
2006 - Round 2 - 5 games
2007 - Round 2 - 5 games
2008 - Round 1 - 5 games
2009 - Round 1 - 7 games
2010 - Round 1 - 5 games

16 playoff games and just 2 series wins in 6 seasons

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07-06-2010, 03:03 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Over the last 7 years (the 6 seasons since Stevens last played in the playoffs)

2004 - Round 1 - 5 games
2006 - Round 2 - 5 games
2007 - Round 2 - 5 games
2008 - Round 1 - 5 games
2009 - Round 1 - 7 games
2010 - Round 1 - 5 games

16 playoff games and just 2 series wins in 6 seasons
Why is everyone bringing that up? I did not say that Luo was successfully in playoffs in the past few years. There is a perfect explanation for it. He lost a lot of key players, some retired, some walked etc etc like Stevens, Doneyko, Madden, Gionta, Scotty Neids, Gionta and still was finishing on the top during regular season year after year. Yes, he did make some dumb moves too. Signing 27 year old Kovalchuk to 6-7 years to 8.5M a year won’t be one of them.

Sure Flyers were a better team in playoffs for the most part. Did we win anything? No. Will we? Who the hell knows, with Leighton in the net? Probably not.

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That sentence presumes Gaborik is not overpaid.......Most anything looks good next to a Sather contract, but he's still overpaid.
Gaborik was over a PPG player last year. He also scored over 40 goals. So far, Sather made a good move.

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07-06-2010, 05:26 PM
  #248
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Gaborik was over a PPG player last year. He also scored over 40 goals. So far, Sather made a good move.
Sure, we'll revisit it then.

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07-06-2010, 05:28 PM
  #249
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Sure, we'll revisit it then.
Cuz it wasn't a one-year contract, or just for fun? We'll ignore that they missed the playoffs, too... and dropped points in the standings. Bang up job, Sather.

In other news, I'm *ing tired of Kovalchuk. Just sign a damn contract and let everyone move on with their lives.

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07-06-2010, 05:42 PM
  #250
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Cuz it wasn't a one-year contract, or just for fun? We'll ignore that they missed the playoffs, too... and dropped points in the standings. Bang up job, Sather.

In other news, I'm *ing tired of Kovalchuk. Just sign a damn contract and let everyone move on with their lives.
Were Gaboriks 40+ goals or 80+ points (with no real first-line caliber linemates) part of the problem? I wouldn't think so. Sather isn't a good GM, but Gaborik has been one of the few guys so far that has earned the big contract Sather gave him.

Before you said if you're paying a guy 7.5 million you want him popping 50 goals for you or you're not getting good value. That's just unrealistic. Look at the guys who are 50 goal threats...Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Heatley, Gaborik, maybe Carter..

Crosby and OV make 8 mill, Heatley made over 7 on his first UFA contract (and then scored 40 goals), Stamkos is gonna get Ovie money if they can get rid of Lecavlier, and we'll see what Carter gets. 7.5 million is about the going rate for a UFA forward who can pot 40-40-80 with out any real help.

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