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Halak signs in St. Louis.

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Old
07-06-2010, 11:45 PM
  #151
scottyG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
lol, about as spare as the best goalie in an organization can be, I guess.



What does a UFA dynamic have to do with any of this? Montreal didn't have to negotiate to sign Halak longterm. They could have just taken him to arbitration, gotten 1 more year of service out of him for WELL under $4M (likely closer to $2M than $3M, even), and gone from there. Worst case scenario is that Halak becomes disenchanted with Montreal management and he is traded next year for exactly what he was this year: the exclusive rights to negotiation before the FA period for a team that assures Halak and his agent that they'll give them what they want. At least we'd all have one more year to evaluate both young goalies. That's what really burns me: making a move like this before really having to.
IIRC Quebec's takes are about 8% higher than Missouri's.

On 3.75 million 8 % is 300,000$
Would you take an 8% pay cut?

Halak would've asked for about 4-4.2 million in Montreal

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
My justification is based on an NHL insider stating that St. Louis asked for Price first.
And if true why do you think they asked for Price first? Could it be they(like Montreal) just sees Price as the better goalie?

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07-06-2010, 11:52 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
And if true why do you think they asked for Price first? Could it be they(like Montreal) just sees Price as the better goalie?
It could.
Or they could have felt that Price was likely the one that was available after what Halak did.

Who knows? No reason for me to make up facts about what happened when I have no idea what went on.

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07-06-2010, 11:58 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
IIRC Quebec's takes are about 8% higher than Missouri's.
Without getting too deep into specifics and digging up the post that was written by some tax accountant in the other thread, I almost guarantee you're leaving out the 1% city tax in St. Louis, so that brings it back down to a 7% difference. Then a bunch of people went into cost of living index, etc (St. Louis being one of the cheapest cities in which to live in the US, apparently), and they all figured it works out closer to about 5-7% difference. You can find all the details on the free agent board if you don't take my word from it.

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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
On 3.75 million 8 % is 300,000$
Would you take an 8% pay cut?

Halak would've asked for about 4-4.2 million in Montreal
First of all, again, arbitration wouldn't give him anywhere close to that. Second of all, you can't consider the impact of such a "pay cut" until you actually have a second city in the mix (which wouldn't have been the case until after July 1st, and only if offer sheets started coming in). So would I take an 8% pay cut if I sign a contract, then go back in time and decide whether to change my mind or not? That's a tough one to answer. If I could go back in time I'd be more focused on lottery numbers and sports betting than contract negotiations and worries about 8% of anything.

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07-06-2010, 11:59 PM
  #154
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good stuff halak! you deserve it, hope you play some of your best hockey for st louis.

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07-07-2010, 02:55 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
IIRC Quebec's takes are about 8% higher than Missouri's.

On 3.75 million 8 % is 300,000$
Would you take an 8% pay cut?

Halak would've asked for about 4-4.2 million in Montreal



And if true why do you think they asked for Price first? Could it be they(like Montreal) just sees Price as the better goalie?
or the one that would cost less...

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07-07-2010, 06:43 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post



First of all, again, arbitration wouldn't give him anywhere close to that. Second of all, you can't consider the impact of such a "pay cut" until you actually have a second city in the mix (which wouldn't have been the case until after July 1st, and only if offer sheets started coming in). So would I take an 8% pay cut if I sign a contract, then go back in time and decide whether to change my mind or not? That's a tough one to answer. If I could go back in time I'd be more focused on lottery numbers and sports betting than contract negotiations and worries about 8% of anything.
You think if they take him to arbitration that jerk off walsh will let them forget that come UFA when you lose him for nothing possibly and everyone here would whine ever more than they still are over this trade?
Its funny how everyone is telling people to grow up yet they still moan about this trade 3 weeks later. Im sure it will come back up when he wins his first game in St. Louis too. He is the best goalie in the NHL you know.

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07-07-2010, 08:42 AM
  #157
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That's lots of money for an up coming goalie. Best of luck.

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07-07-2010, 10:13 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
You think if they take him to arbitration that jerk off walsh will let them forget that come UFA when you lose him for nothing possibly and everyone here would whine ever more than they still are over this trade?
Its funny how everyone is telling people to grow up yet they still moan about this trade 3 weeks later. Im sure it will come back up when he wins his first game in St. Louis too. He is the best goalie in the NHL you know.
Seriously, what kind of argument is this? Jerk off Walsh bla bla bla. I love how everyone tries to predict what is likely gonna happen before it even happens and they speculate on what an agent will prevent us from doing.

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07-07-2010, 10:14 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Seriously, what kind of argument is this? Jerk off Walsh bla bla bla. I love how everyone tries to predict what is likely gonna happen before it even happens and they speculate on what an agent will prevent us from doing.
You mean the same way people are speculating about Price wanting more money and Price being worth more?

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07-07-2010, 10:30 AM
  #160
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We will all need to wait to see how this unfolds guys....3.75M seems a little high for Halak, but hey, his agent got him a very good deal...speaking of his agent, I think one of the big reasons for cutting Halak loose was all the BS the agent created, the guy was like a child, and used the media to get his agenda out there.....not the way the Habs organization wants to deal with a player and agent, to have things done through the media....

Anyhow, everyone has to put in their .02 cents, I do really think the Habs have chosen the right goalie, just my .02 cents, and only time will tell, no sense BS'ing about all summer....shut her down boys! Relax! It's summer!!!

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07-07-2010, 11:20 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
We will all need to wait to see how this unfolds guys....3.75M seems a little high for Halak, but hey, his agent got him a very good deal...speaking of his agent, I think one of the big reasons for cutting Halak loose was all the BS the agent created, the guy was like a child, and used the media to get his agenda out there.....not the way the Habs organization wants to deal with a player and agent, to have things done through the media....

Anyhow, everyone has to put in their .02 cents, I do really think the Habs have chosen the right goalie, just my .02 cents, and only time will tell, no sense BS'ing about all summer....shut her down boys! Relax! It's summer!!!
It really shouldn't. That contract takes him past UFA qualification age and right up until he's 29. $3.75M is a more than reasonable cap hit for a goalie of his calibre through those ages. His salary next year is $2.75M, which some might think is a bit high, and really that's the only number he has to "earn" next season.

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07-07-2010, 11:55 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Seriously, what kind of argument is this? Jerk off Walsh bla bla bla. I love how everyone tries to predict what is likely gonna happen before it even happens and they speculate on what an agent will prevent us from doing.
For someone who has brought up how much halak has been slighted by the habs, I cant see how you would like them taking him to arbitration after "the greatest goaltending performance in recent play off history", and then to possibly lose him to UFA. I forgot Walsh tried to make everything run smooth in montreal with the other goalie, considering he was pissed about price being on a ****ing play off ticket. Yeah he is extremely reasonable.

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07-07-2010, 12:19 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
IIRC Quebec's takes are about 8% higher than Missouri's.

On 3.75 million 8 % is 300,000$
Would you take an 8% pay cut?

Halak would've asked for about 4-4.2 million in Montreal



And if true why do you think they asked for Price first? Could it be they(like Montreal) just sees Price as the better goalie?
The tax rate is pretty similar in that bracket anywhere in Canada or North America. The only difference would be a state that doesn't have state income tax like Florida or Texas.

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07-07-2010, 12:27 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by HabsHockey View Post
So you would have paid Halak 5 mill?
They didn't even talk to Halak. I'd be shocked if he was holding out for 5 mil. It was probably just starting negotiations if anything. I haven't heard that he asked for that.

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07-07-2010, 02:40 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
For someone who has brought up how much halak has been slighted by the habs, I cant see how you would like them taking him to arbitration after "the greatest goaltending performance in recent play off history", and then to possibly lose him to UFA. I forgot Walsh tried to make everything run smooth in montreal with the other goalie, considering he was pissed about price being on a ****ing play off ticket. Yeah he is extremely reasonable.
Well, the reality was always that the Habs were going to stick with Price, and it was just a matter of either hanging onto Halak for as long as possible, or trade him somewhere. It's not exactly hard to connect the dots through a scenario of: Habs looking to keep Halak -> Halak's agent asking for too much to afford -> taking him to arbitration to keep him for at least a year at the most affordable price possible -> Halak becoming UFA at the end of his arbitrated contract.

So, to address your surprise, I would imagine that the poster you replied to would have preferred to see Halak agree to a term contract at a reasonable price instead of being forced to go through the arbitration process. If the Habs had been even slightly serious about keeping Halak (even for just 1 more year), I think just about everyone assumed that it would have required arbitration, and that was the best that could be hoped for realistically.

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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
They didn't even talk to Halak. I'd be shocked if he was holding out for 5 mil. It was probably just starting negotiations if anything. I haven't heard that he asked for that.
In fact, we now know that he wouldn't have held out for anything that ridiculous.

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07-07-2010, 05:20 PM
  #166
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Halak is quoted as saying he would have accepted the same offer he got from St. Louis from Montreal.

So we traded away Halak at 3.75mil for 4 years for Eller and Schultz.

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07-07-2010, 05:47 PM
  #167
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You mean the same way people are speculating about Price wanting more money and Price being worth more?
Sure same thing, have I speculated on this? Why are you quoting me instead of them?

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07-07-2010, 06:23 PM
  #168
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Sure same thing, have I speculated on this? Why are you quoting me instead of them?
Because if you are going to call people out for speculating, call out everyone on it, not on instances where it benefits you to call it out.

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07-07-2010, 07:04 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
We will all need to wait to see how this unfolds guys....3.75M seems a little high for Halak, but hey, his agent got him a very good deal...speaking of his agent, I think one of the big reasons for cutting Halak loose was all the BS the agent created, the guy was like a child, and used the media to get his agenda out there.....not the way the Habs organization wants to deal with a player and agent, to have things done through the media....

Anyhow, everyone has to put in their .02 cents, I do really think the Habs have chosen the right goalie, just my .02 cents, and only time will tell, no sense BS'ing about all summer....shut her down boys! Relax! It's summer!!!
The bolded part is essentially the same thing I came to believe. the new troops in the lockeroom have a strong team mentality left that dilema aside for the playoffs, but Halak's actions with the media probably came into question by the leaders on the team, while Price was riding the pine, and probably who was also already in the doghouse with the leaders on the team, was keeping quiet in the meantime. Price put the team first, and in the eyes of the players and the coaches, this probably helped the decision. Financially and cap-wise it also made more sense to trade Halak, as you would arguably get a better return (in fact, best return for a goalie in years), and pay arguably less on the cap for Price

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07-07-2010, 07:12 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Ohashi, you write well, but we all know what you mean when you do. There is a clear hidding Halak bias in your writings. You act all high and mighty and "objective" but your personal taste for players plays into your judgement and analysis just as much as anyone else on this forum. Your always quick to comment favorably on the potential and talent of any player of any team expect when comes down to two players: Eller and Price because both have to deal with Halak. You always seem to be skeptic, your "excited, but cautiously optimistic" in the case of the latter to, but postive in the case of others. Of course now you're going to write me another post with empty words to beat around the push and talk about how you do no such and that Halak has proven, Price hasn't and that potential really means nothing, but not actually nothing blah blah.
Yup, Ohashi has been debunked so many times for exactly what you stated.....a bs spin expert! and if he uses a metric to explain his though, watch it, the metric will change to adjust to another conversation to make another part of the same conversation look better......all translates into bs spin master....

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07-07-2010, 08:10 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Halak is quoted as saying he would have accepted the same offer he got from St. Louis from Montreal.

So we traded away Halak at 3.75mil for 4 years for Eller and Schultz.
We've been over this a thousand times guys Ohasi, Earl, Natey,

IF Price > Halak, the Habs win this trade,
Unless Eller doesn't develop into a top 6 and busts and price is less than halak we lose this trade, Plain and simple. But another fact to take into account is that

.924 2.40 5 SO 26-13-5 AGE 24 (good playoffs vs. Pit/Wsh spanked by philly)
.921 2.56 3 SO 24-12-3 AGE 20 (good playoffs vs. Boston Spanked by Philly)

As far as im concerned thats an important factor to consider

AND FINALLY

These guys know what there doing, yes they make mistakes, but until I see it myself Im gonna trust there decision, and not a bunch of internet posters out there to make a name for themselves to say "I knew we should've traded x instead of Y, i said so right here" ffs be ****ing optimistic for the return for once instead of so god **** negative

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07-07-2010, 08:33 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
For someone who has brought up how much halak has been slighted by the habs, I cant see how you would like them taking him to arbitration after "the greatest goaltending performance in recent play off history", and then to possibly lose him to UFA. I forgot Walsh tried to make everything run smooth in montreal with the other goalie, considering he was pissed about price being on a ****ing play off ticket. Yeah he is extremely reasonable.
In the end it would've ultimately been up to Jaro whether or not the Habs were in his future, not Walsh.
Going through arbitration is just another step in the process. Nothing wrong taking players through the process. Personally I would have like a deal similar to what St Louis paid.

I think once the numbers are known from both signings this deal might even look less appealing. We'll see.

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07-07-2010, 08:42 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
The bolded part is essentially the same thing I came to believe. the new troops in the lockeroom have a strong team mentality left that dilema aside for the playoffs, but Halak's actions with the media probably came into question by the leaders on the team, while Price was riding the pine, and probably who was also already in the doghouse with the leaders on the team, was keeping quiet in the meantime. Price put the team first, and in the eyes of the players and the coaches, this probably helped the decision. Financially and cap-wise it also made more sense to trade Halak, as you would arguably get a better return (in fact, best return for a goalie in years), and pay arguably less on the cap for Price
I agree with everything aside from the Halak and the media bit. What exactly did he do that may cause rift in the locker room ect. He asked to play more in Dec, because he only got 1 game in all of Nov, after being just as good in Oct.

The players seemed to get along great with Halak and I seriously doubt any leaders questioned whatever it is you think he's done.

Or are you referring to the Walsh ticket thing? I doubt that had anything to do with any of the decision making process. If it did. That's too bad.

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07-07-2010, 08:47 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Because if you are going to call people out for speculating, call out everyone on it, not on instances where it benefits you to call it out.
I haven't read every post in this forum. If people were saying Price would get more or whatever, I must not have read it or maybe just ignored it. I think the idea is ridiculous. He doesn't have much bargaining power.

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07-07-2010, 09:47 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
We've been over this a thousand times guys Ohasi, Earl, Natey,

IF Price > Halak, the Habs win this trade,
Unless Eller doesn't develop into a top 6 and busts and price is less than halak we lose this trade, Plain and simple. But another fact to take into account is that

.924 2.40 5 SO 26-13-5 AGE 24 (good playoffs vs. Pit/Wsh spanked by philly)
.921 2.56 3 SO 24-12-3 AGE 20 (good playoffs vs. Boston Spanked by Philly)

As far as im concerned thats an important factor to consider

AND FINALLY

These guys know what there doing, yes they make mistakes, but until I see it myself Im gonna trust there decision, and not a bunch of internet posters out there to make a name for themselves to say "I knew we should've traded x instead of Y, i said so right here" ffs be ****ing optimistic for the return for once instead of so god **** negative
I think the vast majority agrees with this.....its always the same few...ForestJunkie and his cast of three... aside from them, the rest seem to agree with this logical viewpoint....

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