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UPDATE Kostitsyn signs for $550,000 one year deal

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Old
07-07-2010, 05:21 PM
  #151
deanwormer
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Hmmmm if he has 20 goals at 550 k what pressure is Leggy and Erat in????
I dunno, what were Erat and Leggy making when the 9/10/11 line was intact and they dindn't have their long-term deals? what was Rad making his last year and what was his production compared to the "expensive" guys?

I get the point you're suggesting, but you perform on the entry contracts and you earn a larger deal - not so sure that really puts "pressure" on the other guys who've already earned their larger deals. But, if SK does put up 20 and then re-ups next year? I think that's where the pressure comes, when the other guys have earned theirs, too, and there is only room for a certain number of larger contracts....

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07-07-2010, 08:10 PM
  #152
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Still not happy about getting him and less that we signed him. But at least we won't lose much when he tanks on us.

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07-07-2010, 08:20 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
I dunno, what were Erat and Leggy making when the 9/10/11 line was intact and they dindn't have their long-term deals? what was Rad making his last year and what was his production compared to the "expensive" guys?

I get the point you're suggesting, but you perform on the entry contracts and you earn a larger deal - not so sure that really puts "pressure" on the other guys who've already earned their larger deals. But, if SK does put up 20 and then re-ups next year? I think that's where the pressure comes, when the other guys have earned theirs, too, and there is only room for a certain number of larger contracts....
Erat was making 1.6mil ... Leggy 1.8 mil on their previous deals.

We spent $550k on a guy with a boatload of talent but a history of being a headcase on a one year deal that leaves him as a RFA (I'll have to look if he'll be arbitration eligible or not).

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07-07-2010, 09:29 PM
  #154
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If you prorate Kostitsyn's statistics the past two seasons, he was on pace for 12 goals for each season.

He averages about 1.3 shots on goal per game (less than Legwand). He's definitely more of a playmaker than shooter (as is Lombardi).

Given his issues, he didn't get much PP time last season, but he received more than 2:00 on average in the previous season with no noticeable change to his statistics.

Guy has a lot of potential, but 15 goals might be his limit- at least for this year.

Regardless, $550,000 is a price for an individual with that kind of potential.

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07-07-2010, 11:10 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
If you prorate Kostitsyn's statistics the past two seasons, he was on pace for 12 goals for each season.

He averages about 1.3 shots on goal per game (less than Legwand). He's definitely more of a playmaker than shooter (as is Lombardi).

Given his issues, he didn't get much PP time last season, but he received more than 2:00 on average in the previous season with no noticeable change to his statistics.

Guy has a lot of potential, but 15 goals might be his limit- at least for this year.

Regardless, $550,000 is a price for an individual with that kind of potential.
What were his minutes played when getting those stats? I think a better number to assess is goals per 60 minutes of action as opposed to games because Hornqvist netted 31 for us last year while getting an average of 15 minutes or so a game. Imagine if you up his minutes, will he score more or be less effective because of the poundings he takes?

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07-08-2010, 12:23 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
What were his minutes played when getting those stats? I think a better number to assess is goals per 60 minutes of action as opposed to games because Hornqvist netted 31 for us last year while getting an average of 15 minutes or so a game. Imagine if you up his minutes, will he score more or be less effective because of the poundings he takes?
Furthermore, you've gotta factor in that the large percentage of his time in Montreal was with bottom six forwards as his linemates. Stats cannot be used as a straight tool to assess a player without getting actual viewings to figure out why the stats read the way they do...

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07-08-2010, 01:39 AM
  #157
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Glenningeer – since I’m a huge fan of Patric’s your question, “Hörnqvist netted 30 for us last year while getting an average of 15 minutes or so a game. Imagine if you up his minutes, will he score more or be less effective because of the poundings he takes?” got me curious.

I copied Patric’s game log from the Preds site and sorted on TOI. Hörnqvist had 8 goals in the 36 games that he played less than 16 minutes in. He had 22 goals in the 44 games in which he played 16 or more minutes. Further, in the 12 games in which he played 19 or more minutes he had 8 goals.

My impression of Hörnqvist is that although he’s not the biggest guy, he likes to be on the ice, where the action is, and he wants the puck so he can shoot it. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen him banging the ice with his stick, begging for the puck. He doesn’t seem to mind the physical play. For me, the question is, can he stay healthy down there?

While I was looking at the info, I took a look at the 28 games from his first season. Some people on here talk about what a failure he was that year. I tend to think of it as a transition year for a 21-22 year old playing his first year in the US. I also think people forget what role Trotz had him playing for at least half of the 28 games – 4th line, occasionally 3rd line. In the 28 games he only had 1 game with more than 16 minutes TOI and only 5 with more than 15 minutes. 13 games he played less than 11 minutes and 7 of those were less than 8 minutes. All 7 of his points came in the 12 games in which he played more than 12:58.

Didn’t mean to derail the thread. Your initial point and SLake’s follow up point that playing time and linemates (for scorers) needs to be taken into account - are well taken. I think Patric’s stats, both this year and last, demonstrate those points well.

Back on topic, in regards to Kostitsyn – I’m excited about the signing, and like most everyone else, I see it as low risk high reward. I’m not too worried about him being a negative impact in the dressing room. If the team is as close as they say, my guess would be the players, the coaches, and management will handle the situation swiftly if he creates waves.

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07-08-2010, 07:17 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
What were his minutes played when getting those stats? I think a better number to assess is goals per 60 minutes of action as opposed to games because Hornqvist netted 31 for us last year while getting an average of 15 minutes or so a game. Imagine if you up his minutes, will he score more or be less effective because of the poundings he takes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Furthermore, you've gotta factor in that the large percentage of his time in Montreal was with bottom six forwards as his linemates. Stats cannot be used as a straight tool to assess a player without getting actual viewings to figure out why the stats read the way they do...
Both very good points. Looking back to his exciting rookie season, his prorated shots on goal total drops to 0.9 shots per game and his prorated goal total was 14. His shooting percentage was significantly higher at 18% versus the roughly 11% the other two years.

For all three seasons, he got just above 14:00 of ice time per game.

That doesn't discount his talent and the potential it brings. It does seem to indicate that he's a playmaker. I'm excited to have him on the team. I'd be more excited if we had someone willing to shoot the puck for all of these playmakers.

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07-09-2010, 12:27 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
What were his minutes played when getting those stats? I think a better number to assess is goals per 60 minutes of action as opposed to games because Hornqvist netted 31 for us last year while getting an average of 15 minutes or so a game. Imagine if you up his minutes, will he score more or be less effective because of the poundings he takes?
Glenn in SKs game he tries to play bigger than he is like Frankie playes but he is less effective doing so and he can't handle the abuse. He is like Kovalev taking shiftrs and even games off and playing lackadasical at best. So more minutes may not be a good thing for him. He plays from the perimiter he is a pass first guy he seldome goes to the high traffic areas like to the net. He likes to play to the side of the net and off the half wall. He makes great passes through areas you don't think he can put the puck but the downside to that is no one then expects it so they either miss the pass are can't do anything with it. This also turns into a turnover issue and he does make many of those.

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07-09-2010, 12:30 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Glenn in SKs game he tries to play bigger than he is like Frankie playes but he is less effective doing so and he can't handle the abuse. He is like Kovalev taking shiftrs and even games off and playing lackadasical at best. So more minutes may not be a good thing for him. He plays from the perimiter he is a pass first guy. He likes to play to the side of the net and off the half wall. He makes great passes through areas you don't think he can put the puck but the downside to that is no one then expects it so they either miss the pass are can't do anything with it. This also turns into a turnover issue and he does make many of those.
Well, if he takes shifts off he'll be on the bench or sitting out a game or two. Hornqvist got sat for a game last year and when he came back to the lineup, he didn't let up for the rest of the year. Trotz does not stand for that sort of thing so we'll see how SK handles it.

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07-09-2010, 12:38 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well, if he takes shifts off he'll be on the bench or sitting out a game or two. Hornqvist got sat for a game last year and when he came back to the lineup, he didn't let up for the rest of the year. Trotz does not stand for that sort of thing so we'll see how SK handles it.

SK doesn't handle it well and when he gets chastised like that he sulks and whines and then is even less effective. That is what happened in Montreal he came to camp out of shape got sent to Hamilton and he didn't like it so he said I am going home to Russia and hopped a plane and left. He didn't show up for practices left the ice early when he was to be on teh ice with the team and missed busses etc for games. This is not conducive to anything good. This stemmed from being in the dog house.

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07-09-2010, 03:01 PM
  #162
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No player has ever left Montreal labeled a "trouble player" and turned out just fine... ever

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07-09-2010, 03:18 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
SK doesn't handle it well and when he gets chastised like that he sulks and whines and then is even less effective. That is what happened in Montreal he came to camp out of shape got sent to Hamilton and he didn't like it so he said I am going home to Russia and hopped a plane and left. He didn't show up for practices left the ice early when he was to be on teh ice with the team and missed busses etc for games. This is not conducive to anything good. This stemmed from being in the dog house.
Trotz will send him to Russia then. This is why we signed him to a $4 contract. He will be given every chance to succeed though.

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Old
07-09-2010, 03:30 PM
  #164
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No player has ever left Montreal labeled a "trouble player" and turned out just fine... ever
Ribeiro?

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07-09-2010, 03:40 PM
  #165
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Ribeiro?
Landresse? (SP?)

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07-09-2010, 05:12 PM
  #166
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Landresse? (SP?)
Tender wasn't a trouble maker or a selfish guy he just wasn't playing well and they felt he needed a new start same as Pouls in Minny so we made the trade. It has helped both of them. Ribs lost favour with the saff and fans with his antics in teh playoffs against Boston faking that injury and then getting up and laughing about it. He was a good player just not a good fit on our team. Ryder was pretty lights out his first two season also and look at him now he is horrible.

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07-10-2010, 12:20 AM
  #167
glenngineer
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Just of the top of my head: Ribeiro? Chelios?
Latendresse was labelled "trouble" player after he left so he does not fit.
Chelios wasn't labeled a trouble player. Whoever the GM at the time thought it was prudent to move him for Savard and go for one more Cup. They won the Cup in '93 and haven't come close since. I was a huge Habs fan growing up and I still never understood that move. It brought them one Cup but removed them of one of the greatest defenseman to play the game for a guy that had only a year or two left in the tank.

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07-10-2010, 07:55 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Chelios wasn't labeled a trouble player. Whoever the GM at the time thought it was prudent to move him for Savard and go for one more Cup. They won the Cup in '93 and haven't come close since. I was a huge Habs fan growing up and I still never understood that move. It brought them one Cup but removed them of one of the greatest defenseman to play the game for a guy that had only a year or two left in the tank.
You are correct it is a move that many of us still scratch our heads over. He would have been a cornerstone to the franchise for many years but alas he got shipped out for Dennis Savard.

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07-10-2010, 10:34 AM
  #169
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SK had issues in Montreal ... got it. We'll see this season if a change in scenery does him well and if it doesn't, he's signed at $550k for one year so it's not a huge financial risk.

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07-10-2010, 11:03 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
No player has ever left Montreal labeled a "trouble player" and turned out just fine... ever
Sarcasm is an art form to many...

Quote:
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Ribeiro?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Landresse? (SP?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Just of the top of my head: Ribeiro? Chelios?
Latendresse was labelled "trouble" player after he left so he does not fit.
... I think you might need some practice.

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Old
07-10-2010, 11:43 AM
  #171
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SK has an immense amount of talent - top 6 potential, he just really needed a change of scenery since everything is magnified in Montreal. Hopefully his attitude will change in Nashville and become the player he is capable of becoming.

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