Good call, Schultz really improved this year (evidence by the +/- but that's also a team thing).
That should be the ballpark for Girardi too, however, as the two are pretty similar.
4 years and 10 mil and maybe im sold bc you can move him if need be as kids begin to fill the roster... otherwise no thanks, and i would absolutely walk away from a 3.5 ruling in arbitration....
I'm still not willing to be satisfied with Girardi's new cap hit exceeding $2.75M. He just doesn't deserve it. He's solid, but not that solid.
I think something like 4 years @ 12 million is fair. You have to understand that the Rangers are paying for 2 years of UFA and by the time he would become an UFA he would be 30.
They paid him 1.6 million the past 2 years which was under his value. He has been playing 20+ minutes a night and playing above his level but it doesnt mean he isnt a solid defenseman.
There are practically no #4 dmen in the league who make less than $3m and are beyond their ELC. There are absolutely none who signed their contracts as UFAs. And you know what? If the Rangers said "bring on the offer sheets, we won't match," Girardi would get $3m at the least.
Besides, most of you guys judge a 2nd pair defenseman as though he should be a 1st pair defenseman. When he isn't? Well then he's a bottom pair defenseman.
Girardi is a fairly good example of a typical #4 guy. I don't see why we should look to pay him like a #5.
There are practically no #4 dmen in the league who make less than $3m and are beyond their ELC. There are absolutely none who signed their contracts as UFAs. And you know what? If the Rangers said "bring on the offer sheets, we won't match," Girardi would get $3m at the least.
Besides, most of you guys judge a 2nd pair defenseman as though he should be a 1st pair defenseman. When he isn't? Well then he's a bottom pair defenseman.
Girardi is a fairly good example of a typical #4 guy. I don't see why we should look to pay him like a #5.
b/c he plays like a #5 or a #6 dman on a good team. Just b/c he is a #3 or #4 on our team doesn't justify overpaying him. Sign him to a one year arbitration, then trade him at the deadline, or let him walk and let somebody else overpay for his half assed services.
b/c he plays like a #5 or a #6 dman on a good team. Just b/c he is a #3 or #4 on our team doesn't justify overpaying him. Sign him to a one year arbitration, then trade him at the deadline, or let him walk and let somebody else overpay for his half assed services.
That is simply not true. Look around the league and I can guarantee that besides maybe 2-3 teams who are exceptionally deep on defense he would be in the top-4.
That is simply not true. Look around the league and I can guarantee that besides maybe 2-3 teams who are exceptionally deep on defense he would be in the top-4.
he wouldn't be top 4 on at least 10 teams in the league.
If Girardi gets a contract with a Gleason-like cap hit, I'd be thrilled.
At this point, though, I'm more concerned about the term of Girardi's contract. I don't think he's progressed all that much the past two seasons. I think his development has plateaued so the proposition of him getting a 3 or 4 year deal is a bit worrisome.
Hopefully Girardi regains some consistency. They'll certainly need him to be more reliable when he'll be one of the older, more veteran guys on defense. I thought he looked a bit overwhelmed with a rookie defense partner last year, which is understandable, but he needs to become more comfortable in that role.
That is simply not true. Look around the league and I can guarantee that besides maybe 2-3 teams who are exceptionally deep on defense he would be in the top-4.
How do you respond to someone who thinks Colin White is better defenseman than Girardi?
If Girardi gets a contract with a Gleason-like cap hit, I'd be thrilled.
At this point, though, I'm more concerned about the term of Girardi's contract. I don't think he's progressed all that much the past two seasons. I think his development has plateaued so the proposition of him getting a 3 or 4 year deal is a bit worrisome.
Hopefully Girardi regains some consistency. They'll certainly need him to be more reliable when he'll be one of the older, more veteran guys on defense. I thought he looked a bit overwhelmed with a rookie defense partner last year, which is understandable, but he needs to become more comfortable in that role.
Anaheim:
Visnovsky, Wisniewski, Lydman, Eminger(although Girardi is better than the last 3) agree
Atlanta:
Enstrom, Bogosian, Valabik, Oduya(Girardi is better than the last 3) Bogosian is better, and so is Oduya. At worst they are even. Bogosian's upside is so huge though you would never play him over Girardi.
Boston:
Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, Hunwick(Girardi is more proven than Boychuk and better than Hunwick) you forgot about Stuart and Ference. Boychuk and Hunwick both played better last year, and again have much more upside. Would not play over them.
Buffalo:
Myers, Leopold, Rivet, Butler(Girard is better than the last 3) agree
Calgary:
JBo, Giordano, Regehr, White(Regehr was bad last season and White is on par with Girardi) agree he would be top 4 here.
Carolina:
Gleason, Pitkanen, McBain, Corvo(Girardi is better than the last 2) He is even with Corvo and Babchuk is back. Don't think he would be top 4 here, though it is debatable
Chicago:
Keith, Seabook, Campbell, Hjalmersson(Girardi is on par right now with Hjalmersson and much better defensively than Campbell) Campbell is by far superior offensively, and if Hjalmersson is equal than Girardi still isn't guaranteed top 4 here. and again Hjalmersson has much bigger upside, and played tremendous during PO's.
Colorado:
Cumiskey, Liles, Hannan, Quincey(Girardi would crack their top-4 easily) agree
Columbus:
Hejda, Tyutin, Klesla, Commodore(Easily in the top-4) agree
Dallas:
Robidas, Daley, Niskanen, Grossman(Easily in the top-4) agree
Detroit:
Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart(Probably doesnt crack the top-4 but I dont think he is that much worse than Kronwall and Stuart) Girardi is not even close to Kronwall. Kronwall is a beast defensively, and has just as much offensive upside. so again here he isn't top 4
Edmonton:
Whitney, Gilbert, Smid, Chorney(Easily in the top-4) Forgot about Foster and Souray. He might be top 4 here, but it isn't easily.
Florida:
Kulikov, Allen, McCabe, Wideman(Easily in the top-4) agree
LA:
Doughty, Greene, Johnson, Scuderi(He is on par with Scuderi) If he is on par with Scuderi than he still isn't guaranteed top 4. btw I think Scuderi is better defensively
Minnesota:
Burns, Barker, Zidlicky, Zanon(In the top-4) What about Schultz? Drops Girardi to #5
Montreal:
Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill(In the top-4) agree
Nashville:
Weber, Suter, Klein, Franson(Franson and Klein are good young defensemen but Girardi is better now) agree
NJD:
Volchenkov, Tallinder, Salmela, White(Easily in the top-4) Not at all. White, Volch are both better. Tallinder and Salmela are equal at worst.
NYI:
Streit, Jurcina, Eaton, Hillen(Easily in the top-4) agree
Ottawa:
Phillips, Gonchar, Karlsson, Kuba(Better than Kuba) He isn't better than Kuba
Philadelphia:
Pronger, Timmonen, Coburn, Carle(Better defensively than Carle) Carle is better overall, and has more upside
Phoenix:
Jovanovski, Yandle, Morris, Aucoin(Better than Morris and Aucoin) Morris is better, and more consistent. Agree about Aucoin.
Penguins:
Orpik, Martin, Michalek, Letang(Does not break top-4) agree
San Jose:
Boyle, Murray, Vlasic, Demers(Better than Demers)
St. Louis:
Johnson, Jackman, Polak, Brewer(Better than Brewer) what about Pietrangelo? Kid is going to be amazing, and will probably play just as well as girardi. Would not play Girardi over him at all.
Tampa Bay:
Hedman, Ohlund, Kubina, Walker(Better than Walker) not better than Ranger though, or Lashoff
Toronto:
Phaneuf, Komisarek, Kaberle(even though he will be traded), Beauchemain/Schenn(I would put him on par with Beauchemian/Schenn) Schenn is better hands down, and younger, and more upside. Girardi would not crack top 4 here
Vancouver:
Ballard, Hamhuis, Edler, Ehrhoff(Doe not crack top-4) agree
Washington:
Green, Schultz, Poti, Carlson(Better or even to the last-3) agree
Yeah, I saw that and decided to not even try. It would have been too big of a headache.
I am glad someone agrees with me.
They're all concerned about giving 26 year old Girardi a 4 year deal worth $3-$3.5 million. Florida moved Ballard with 5 years remaining at a $4.2 million cap hit for a #1 pick,a good young forward in Grabner if he can stay healthy and a 1 year salary dump in Bernier. Florida didn't care about getting value in return. They wanted to clear the money.
NJ:
Oduya is not better that Girardi. He was terrible last year in NJ, thats why they decided to move him. White is definitely not a top-4 defenseman anymore.
BOS:
Boychuk and Hunwick are each about the same age as Girardi. If they still have some upside, so does Girardi. Boychuk hasn't even played a full season in the NHL. He thrived with Chara but so did Redden.
CAR:
He is much, much better than Corvo and Babchuk defensively. Babchuk is a larger version of MAB.
DET:
I agree, he isn't top-4 there but I think he and Stuart are pretty even defensively.
EDM:
Foster is a #4 that I did forget about but Souray was just waived and I think they want to get rid of him or bury him in the minors.
LA:
Not saying he is guaranteed a top-4 spot but most teams would take the comparable player at a younger age over the older player.
MINN:
Agreed, forgot Schultz.
OTT:
Kuba played terribly last season and can not stay healthy practically ever. Girardi is more valuable to a teams success.
PHI:
The upside thing again, Carle is 25, Girardi is 26. Not much difference. Carle all of a sudden got his game together playing with Pronger, not a surprise.
PHX:
Morris was brought in last year and he was on the bottom-pairing below Girardi.
STL:
Pietrangelo is going to be a good player but he hasn't proven anything at the NHL level yet(9 games does not count). I would think they would be more apt to allow him to get his feet wet on the bottom-pairing.
TB:
Ranger didn't play for a good portion of the season last year and Girardi is easily better than Lashoff.
TOR:
When Kaberle is traded, is Girardi better than Beauchemain? I think he is.
so what we basically established here is that he is a borderline #4 dman. Do you really commit 4 years at over $3mil for a boderline #4 dman? Especially when you have one of the deepest defensive prospect pools in the entire NHL. I certainly wouldn't.
so what we basically established here is that he is a borderline #4 dman. Do you really commit 4 years at over $3mil for a boderline #4 dman? Especially when you have one of the deepest defensive prospect pools in the entire NHL. I certainly wouldn't.
I think he is a solid #4 and a #3 on this team. I would give him 3 million for 4 years, yes. That contract would be very easy to move if need be and he has value because of the type of player and teammate he is. Anything over 3.3 is way too much.
If he was consistent, I could see 4 at $3mil... but he was horrid for long stretches each year besides his rookie year. I really don't think his trade value will go up much if at all. I wouldn't give over 3 years, and would preferably give 2.
but we are in a conundrum, in that right now we would have nobody to replace him, but in 2-3 years he could very well be the #5 or 6 dman on the team. I just hope we can sign Staal before Girardi's hearing, this way we can better determine if we can fit his salary or if other moves need to be made.
I think he is a solid #4 and a #3 on this team. I would give him 3 million for 4 years, yes. That contract would be very easy to move if need be and he has value because of the type of player and teammate he is. Anything over 3.3 is way too much.
That is the most important part of your sentence. On a good team, he's a bottom-pairing D-man. But, since he is a #3/#4 on this team, he's going to be overpaid.
Who are you replacing Girardi with that can play 20 minutes a night for less than 3 mil?
Girardi can't play 20 minutes a night. Sure, physically he can, but so can most players. If you want to win hockey games, he can't.
He's not worth more than $2.5m from what he has shown here. If he receives $2.75m a season, I would probably reluctantly re-sign and consider it an overpayment. Anything more than that, he gets the Zherdev treatment. I would take my chances with our AHL material if we can't find a replacement for him on the market. The difference between a Girardi and a Gilroy isn't that big.
It's pretty interesting to see how many who don't consider Girardi's last two seasons here a clear disappointment.
