HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Philadelphia Flyers Mythbusters

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-07-2010, 07:44 PM
  #1
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
Philadelphia Flyers Mythbusters

Let's play a game of mythbusters. I'll start with the obvious one Feel free to add your own.

Myth: The reason the Flyers haven't won a Cup is awful goaltending since Hextall's rookie year.

The Flyers have lost 16 playoff series since the 1987 Stanley Cup Final. Let's go through and see whether they allowed too many or scored too few.

1988 Patrick Semifinal: 4 losses were 4-5, 2-5, 2-7, 4-5. 12 goals scored, 22 goals allowed. Verdict: Too many goals allowed.

1989 Wales Conference Final: 4 losses were 0-3, 1-5, 0-3, 2-4. 3 goals scores, 15 goals allowed. Verdict: Too few goals scored.

1995 Eastern Conference Final: 1-4, 2-5, 2-3, 2-4. 7 goals scored, 16 goals allowed. Verdict: Both numbers suck.

1996 Eastern Conference Semifinal: 0-2, 3-4, 1-2, 1-4. 5 goals scores, 12 goals allowed. Verdict: Too few goals scored.

1997 Stanley Cup: 2-4, 2-4, 1-6, 1-2. 6 goals scored, 16 goals allowed. Verdict: Both numbers suck.

1998 First Round: 2-3, 1-6, 1-4, 2-3. 6 goals scored, 16 goals allowed. Verdict: Both numbers suck.

1999 First Round: 1-2, 1-2, 1-2, 0-1. 3 goals scored, 7 goals allowed. Verdict: Too few goals scored.

2000 Eastern Conference Final: 1-4, 1-4, 1-2, 1-2. 4 goals scored, 12 goals allowed. Verdict: Too few goals scored.

2001 First Round: 1-2, 3-4, 3-4, 0-8. 7 goals scored, 18 goals allowed. Verdict: Both numbers suck.

2002 First Round: 0-3, 0-3, 0-3, 1-2. 1 goal scored, 11 goals allowed. Verdict: Too few goals scored.

2003 Eastern Conference Semifinal: 2-4, 2-3, 2-5, 1-5. 7 goals scored, 17 goals allowed. Verdict: Both numbers suck.

2004 Eastern Conference Final: 1-3, 1-4, 2-4, 1-2. 5 goals scored, 13 goals allowed. Verdict: Too few goals scored.

2006 First Round: 2-3, 2-8, 0-3, 1-7. 5 goals scored, 21 goals allowed. Verdict: Both numbers suck, but goals allowed sucks more.

2008 Eastern Conference Finals: 2-4, 2-4, 1-4, 0-6. 5 goals scored, 18 goals allowed. Verdict: Both numbers suck.

2009 First Round: 1-4, 2-3, 1-3, 3-5. 7 goals scored, 15 goals allowed. Verdict: Too few goals scored.

2010 Stanley Cup Final: 5-6, 1-2, 4-7, 3-4. 13 goals scored, 19 goals allowed. Verdict: Too many goals allowed.

96 goals for in 64 losses ... 1.5 goals per game. 248 goals allowed, or 3.875 a game (Take out the four epic collapses 0-8, 1-7, 2-8, and 0-6 and you get 1.55 to 3.65).

7 series losses where the blame lies primarily on the offense, and 3 where it lies primarily on the defense, with 6 where both sucked. Goaltending has possibly been a reason we haven't one or two Cups, but the primary reason?

Final Status: BUSTED

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 07:48 PM
  #2
DayoftheGreek
Registered User
 
DayoftheGreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 387
vCash: 500
So how exactly would a goaltender NOT help to lessen the importance of these stats? An anemic offense doesn't look quite so bad anymore when you are playing in front of a solid goaltender.

DayoftheGreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 07:54 PM
  #3
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,982
vCash: 500
We've known that the myth of the Flyers' losing out on the cup because of crappy goaltending is false.

People just believe in TSN-analysis far too much. TSN-analysis is nothing more than big names make the difference. The Flyers' haven't had the big names, so what is in reality just mediocre goaltending gets put off as the single crime against our organization that the front office refuses to rectify.

Again, nothing new.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 08:07 PM
  #4
turkinaa
Registered User
 
turkinaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 915
vCash: 500
Its more consistent goaltending from season to season and a disappearing offense. How many different #1 goalies have we had during that span? Even with a different #1 every few seasons, they had some good runs and good seasons and some good teams so I don't think the blame can only be on one aspect. It's an entire team collapse when we're not scoring goals and letting up too many, because otherwise we would be scoring a lot of goals and letting up a lot of goals and it would balance out.

turkinaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 08:19 PM
  #5
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,399
vCash: 5700
You don't need a superstar goalie to win, just one who won't lose games for you. Sadly, in the finals Leighton lost games. Even without Richards, Gagne, and Carter not showing much offense, they scored enough goals to win 5 of the 6 games.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 09:31 PM
  #6
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
2002 First Round: 0-3, 0-3, 0-3, 1-2. 1 goal scored, 11 goals allowed.
Quite possibly the worst thing I have ever had the displeasure of watching.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 10:22 PM
  #7
FlyerX
Registered User
 
FlyerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You don't need a superstar goalie to win, just one who won't lose games for you. Sadly, in the finals Leighton lost games. Even without Richards, Gagne, and Carter not showing much offense, they scored enough goals to win 5 of the 6 games.
Let's not forget Niemi won CHI Game 2. Chicago made shots too and some of those pucks really had eyes.

FlyerX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 10:45 PM
  #8
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
 
Pantokrator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Semmes, Alabama
Country: Guatemala
Posts: 4,310
vCash: 500
I agree that goaltending has rarely been the problem, but rather incredible offensive collapses.

This being the case, how would Turco or Nabakov be the answer, when acquiring them would likely diminish our scoring even more?

Pantokrator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 11:22 PM
  #9
0range and Black
Registered User
 
0range and Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 87
vCash: 500
I will say that Hextall/Snow was a train wreck in 1997

Boucher kept the Penguins scoreless for 5 OTs.
Chechmanek was rock solid besides 1 meltdown.
Esche was good enough in 2004 to win a cup.
Boucher/Leighton carried the 2010 team to the finals.
-They gave up 14 goals in 12 wins to get there.

Leighton lost Game 4 by himself (or with a D collapse for help)
Game 2 is all on the offense.
Game 6 was on Carter's stick with a wide open top half of the net.
-A 5 million dollar 1st line center has to make that play.

If the 16 million dollar first line scores 8 goals instead of 4, Philly wins the series.

Leighton needed to be better. So did Carter, Richards and Gagne.

0range and Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 11:44 PM
  #10
DeadPhish5858
Rumham!
 
DeadPhish5858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: the Shade
Country: United States
Posts: 13,476
vCash: 200
Send a message via AIM to DeadPhish5858
Myth: Ron Hextall is the greatest hockey player to ever play the game.

Status: Confirmed. No data needed.

DeadPhish5858 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 11:56 PM
  #11
0range and Black
Registered User
 
0range and Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 87
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Myth: Ron Hextall is the greatest hockey player to ever play the game.

Status: Confirmed. No data needed.
Gretzgy, Messier, Fuhr, Coffey, Kurri, etc lift the cup but the MVP goes to Hextall.

I loved that '87 team.

0range and Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 12:11 AM
  #12
Flyerfan808
Registered User
 
Flyerfan808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,002
vCash: 500
Myth: Scott Hartnell invented the glove throwing during the breakaway.

Status: ?

Flyerfan808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 12:24 AM
  #13
DeadPhish5858
Rumham!
 
DeadPhish5858's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: the Shade
Country: United States
Posts: 13,476
vCash: 200
Send a message via AIM to DeadPhish5858
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0range and Black View Post
Gretzgy, Messier, Fuhr, Coffey, Kurri, etc lift the cup but the MVP goes to Hextall.

I loved that '87 team.
Hextall was a better hockey player than Gretzky.

DeadPhish5858 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 12:39 AM
  #14
Andrew Knoll
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Andrew Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,352
vCash: 500
When you have to protect your goalie, you score fewer goals. You have to play more conservatively. We saw that this year, for stretches it seemed like the offense was horrendous but the same guys could light up the board when Emery or Leighton were hot.

I'm not saying that applies to two decades of exits, just saying one affects the other PLENTY.

I don't think it's been poor goaltending alone that's stopped the Flyers generally, that's narrow minded to believe. They had some guys who weren't great but performed above their heads (Esche, Boucher) and they went after some big names (Hextall redeux, Beezer).

Andrew Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 12:41 AM
  #15
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,542
vCash: 156
Myth: Shelley is a superstar, the likes of which this team has never known.

Status: confirmed. shelley is the Superstar.


Myth: holmgren is an idiot.

Status: he signed shelley.

BUSTED

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 07:30 AM
  #16
PhillyCurt12
Registered User
 
PhillyCurt12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,007
vCash: 500
Myth: The refs hate the flyers.

Status: ?

PhillyCurt12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 07:54 AM
  #17
jd2210
Registered Non User
 
jd2210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Myth: Shelley is a superstar, the likes of which this team has never known.

Status: confirmed. shelley is the Superstar.


Myth: holmgren is an idiot.

Status: he signed shelley.

BUSTED

jd2210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 09:14 AM
  #18
Flyskippy
Registered User
 
Flyskippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Audubon, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Quite possibly the worst thing I have ever had the displeasure of watching.
Agreed. Oates really helped set up absolutely nothing. Ugh.

Flyskippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 09:21 AM
  #19
jd2210
Registered Non User
 
jd2210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
Yeah and we gave up 3 rounds worth of draft picks for him.

jd2210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 09:25 AM
  #20
Flyskippy
Registered User
 
Flyskippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Audubon, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Duberstein View Post
When you have to protect your goalie, you score fewer goals. You have to play more conservatively. We saw that this year, for stretches it seemed like the offense was horrendous but the same guys could light up the board when Emery or Leighton were hot.

I'm not saying that applies to two decades of exits, just saying one affects the other PLENTY.

I don't think it's been poor goaltending alone that's stopped the Flyers generally, that's narrow minded to believe. They had some guys who weren't great but performed above their heads (Esche, Boucher) and they went after some big names (Hextall redeux, Beezer).
I agree. It's a team sport and the goaltenders in Philadelphia have been scapegoats too long.

R.I.P. to these crucified goalies:
post-1987 Hextall
Snow
Burke
Vanbiesbrouck
Boucher
Cechmanek
Esche
(Niittymaki)
Biron
(Emery)
Leighton

The road to Philadelphia is looking like the road to Rome.

Flyskippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 09:27 AM
  #21
Flyskippy
Registered User
 
Flyskippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Audubon, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Yeah and we gave up 3 rounds worth of draft picks for him.
Frigging Homer. Oh wait...

Flyskippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 06:12 PM
  #22
turkinaa
Registered User
 
turkinaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyskippy View Post
I agree. It's a team sport and the goaltenders in Philadelphia have been scapegoats too long.

R.I.P. to these crucified goalies:
post-1987 Hextall
Snow
Burke
Vanbiesbrouck
Boucher
Cechmanek
Esche
(Niittymaki)
Biron
(Emery)
Leighton

The road to Philadelphia is looking like the road to Rome.
Burke twice and Hackett.

Plus JMP, Ouellet, and Little never made an impact in the NHL with us or another team so there are some other goalies that were meant to be the future and nothing came of them (except Little did well in the AHL).

turkinaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 06:19 PM
  #23
Terence Peterman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyskippy View Post
Frigging Homer. Oh wait...
Come on, get over it. Clarke was better, and Holmgren really does suck ice.

At least we could expect a division title every few years with Clarke. At least those teams seemed to have some sort of idea about where they were going and didn't have to deal with ******** like John Stevens or Paul Holmgren constantly mind-****ing them.

edit: Mike ****ing Richards called Holmgren out over cap and asset management (and this was at least a year ago). When a player starts to pick it up it's a tell-tale sign for a big ****ing idiot GM


Last edited by Terence Peterman: 07-08-2010 at 06:24 PM.
Terence Peterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 09:17 PM
  #24
ChumpyG
Jibbity jibbity
 
ChumpyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Country: Sami
Posts: 2,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Myth: Scott Hartnell invented the glove throwing during the breakaway.

Status: ?
He may have invented it, but Nino perfected it:


ChumpyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 09:50 PM
  #25
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyCurt12
Myth: The refs hate the flyers.

Status: ?
2009-10 PIM Team Leaders
---------PM For--PM Ag---Diff
1. TBay...1377......1304......73
2. Phil.....1362......1253......109
3. Ana....1321......1295......26
4. StL.....1318......1296......22

2008-09 PIM Team Leaders
---------PM For--PM Ag---Diff
1. Phil.....1434......1217......217
2. Ana.....1426......1265......161
3. Van.....1351......1339......12
4. TBay...1306......1099......207


But ...

2007-08 PIM Team Leaders
---------PM For--PM Ag---Diff
1. Ana.....1481......1387......94
2. Van.....1474......1524.....-50
3. Phi......1471......1419......52
4. Chi......1383......1322......61

2006-07 PIM Team Leaders
---------PM For--PM Ag---Diff
1. Ana.....1452......1463.....-11
2. Pho.....1445......1251......194
3. Col......1357......1314......43
4. Chi......1332......1126......206
5. Phi......1301......1114......187

2005-06 PIM Team Leaders
---------PM For--PM Ag---Diff
1. Pitt....1559......1395......164
2. Chi.....1544......1268......276
3. Nash...1533......1498......35
4. Pho.....1511......1496......15
21. Phi....1201......1169......32

SOURCE: ESPN



BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.