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Kaberle, lets just get this over with...2.0

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Old
07-07-2010, 04:21 PM
  #51
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
The Leafs may have to add a first, but then the leafs also add a third. Kaberle just isn't quite worth Kaberle. Add in the picks to balance it out.
That would make it a more attractive deal for the Leafs since they don't have a first thanks to the Kessel deal... except that the Leafs also don't have their first, thanks to that Kessel deal, so you'd have to throw in something different.

Maybe the Leafs could send Grabovski to the Leafs instead? I know he's not much of an upgrade to the Leafs' center core, but he's not quite as utterly worthless as so many would be tempted to suggest, and he could act as a fair-to-middlin' stand-in while Bozak and Kadri develop.

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Old
07-07-2010, 04:30 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Do we really need another repeat of the last thread????

Let's try and clarify the insanity....

The Leafs do not have a good team, and it is because the have no top line LW and their #1 centre is Mikhail Grabovski; not because the Leafs need more 2nd-and-3rd line talent. They've got a good top line RW (Kessel), a pair of 2nd line centres (Grabo & Bozak), a pair of 2nd line wingers (Kulemin & Verseeeg), 4 solid "bottom 6" wingers with a couple young guys to challenge (Armstrong, Sjostrom, Brown, Orr + Caputi/Hanson), and a 4th line centre (Mitchell). On D, they've got a group that should be very solid if tehy stay healthy, and in goaltending, they've got hope, but Burke has stated that he has no in making a move at this point in time. We problably could use a #3 centre two-way centre, but that really isn't too big of an issue when the Leafs cold sign a player like Brendan Morrison or Eric Belanger.

Trading Kaberle would create another hole, in the form of a puckmoving #4 defenceman to play with Mike Komisarek; who as most of the league knows, is completely useless when it comes to handling the puck.

Burke has stated his intentions to improve this teams on-ice performance immidiately; so any trade that happens must go towards accomplishing that. Otherwise, the Leafs are better off to resign him long term, like he has repeatedly stated a desire to do. This means that any player / package the Leafs trade Kaberle for must fullfill the following needs; and do it IN A BETTER FASHION THAN SIGNING ONE OF THE AVAILABLE REMAINING FREE AGENTS, because the Leafs do have enough cap space to sign pretty much anyone left on the market but Kovalchuk. The players acquired also must have a future with the Leafs, because they are not gearing up for a 1-year run.

Top Line LW w/ Size
Upgrade on Grabovski
Replacement puckmoving blueliner

Now, you'll notice that every one of these assets are "now" assets; which poses a difficulty because any team acquiring Kaberle must have an urgency for a puckmoving blueliner now; and the teams who are in win-now mode have no interest in trading valuable players.

So, you look at teams around the league and ask yourself, who would really want Kaberle to the point where they'd value him with 1 year left on the deal as greater than the Leafs would with an extension in place; and be willing to part with a roster asset that would hold as much value to the Leafs. Looking at the usual culprits....

Anaheim - Nope, they have a puckmover in Visnovsky and aren't really in a position to gear up for a run right now.

Boston - Possibly, likely depends on how much Wheeler costs them.

Buffalo - Nope, they got Leopold and Myers can move the puck. They are not gearing up for a 1-year run. They do not have an abundance of talent at the position of the player the Leafs would demand in return (Roy).

Dallas - Nope, need a puckmover but are not in a win-now mode.

Los Angeles - They have Doughty + Johnson, and would be unwilling to part with the player the Leafs need (JJ or Brown).

New Jersey - Do not have the cap space to make more additions. Tallinder will have to suffice.

San Jose - Have Dan Boyle and would be unwilling to part with anything that suits our needs and is better than keeping Kaberle + signing free agents.

Remember that it takes two teams to make a trade; if your team wants Tomas Kaberle, chances are that the Leafs are going to want your most valuable players. If you don't have the right players for the Leafs, we're most likely not interested in talking to you. Amongst the teams listed above, there are many players that the Leafs would be interested in adding at teh cost of Tomas Kaberle (depending on the player it could be Kaberle+ for Player or Player+ for Kaberle), unless you are willing to part with one of those players, the Leafs aren't interested in dealing Tomas Kaberle. Everyone else is either not good enough to fill one of the holes in our lineup, paid too much money, or not a signficant enough upgrade on whats available in the free agent market.

They are (in team order): Bobby Ryan, Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Marc Savard, Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Derek Roy, James Neal, Loui Eriksson, Jamie Benn, Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, Dustin Brown, Jack Johnson, Zach Parise, Travis Zajac, Patrik Elias, Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, Joe Pavelski.

Should any of those teams part with one of those players for a deal that involves Tomas Kaberle? Problably not. The only one you could make a case for is Boston and they have plenty of cap issues to deal with, plus they'd have to be extremely confident in their ability to resign him. Therefore, these types of threads are useless. Moving a player with salary at this time of year for something that improves your team is next to impossible unless you are able to find a perfect fit. The perfect fit for Tomas Kaberle is in Toronto.
perfect......mandatory reading for any kaberle proposal creator......

takes into account Toronto and receiving teams needs

great great post.....

unless both teams needs are considered, there is no basis for a trade and since Kaberle is a special player to the Leafs, that makes a trade much more complicated than most other trades

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Old
07-07-2010, 04:35 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Already working on it...lol JJ

I'm not the only person suggestiong players like Simmonds... infact the media has also thrown his name out there.
Yeah that's generally because the media panders to the ignorant masses who lack the knowledge to understand why such a scenario is highly unlikely.

You may as well just caption all your posts with "Leafs Homers Unite!"

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Old
07-07-2010, 04:57 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
Yeah that's generally because the media panders to the ignorant masses who lack the knowledge to understand why such a scenario is highly unlikely.

You may as well just caption all your posts with "Leafs Homers Unite!"
Likewise. Simmonds is a physical energy winger with scoring upside. He certainly would not be highly considered in a deal with the Leaf's, at least not for Kaberle. If anything, guys like him are common currency in trades for puckmovers, as Bernier + was moved for Campbell, for example.

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Old
07-07-2010, 05:06 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lario Melieux View Post

To the leafs: Tomas Kaberle


Leafs get: Tomas Kaberle

Value's about even
Are you kidding? Leafs wouldn't even consider that. Throw in a first rounder and maybe







i refuse to add the smiley to this one.

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Old
07-07-2010, 05:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
How about some more realistic deals:

(1)
Toronto:
RJ Umberger
John Moore
3rd Round 2011

Columbus:
Kaberle
Kenny Ryan

(2)
Toronto:
Brian Rolston
Mattias Tedenby

New Jersey:
Kaberle

(3)
Toronto:
AJ Jenks
David Booth

Florida:
Kaberle
Jerry D'Amigo
Now I know my deals are realistic........... because everyone hates them.

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Old
07-07-2010, 05:22 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsfan1 View Post
Stoll
Tuebert
Moller/1st in 2011

for


Kaberle
+
oh god *drool*

Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post


Thomas Kaberle



Patrick Berglund
Brandon Crombeen
STL Conditional 2012 Draft Pick
OH GOD *drool more*

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Old
07-07-2010, 05:23 PM
  #58
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To op. I'm serious man, stop. just stop. seriously... these proposals are terrible. You overvalue kaberle too much

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Old
07-07-2010, 06:00 PM
  #59
AlMo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoner View Post
Seto would net us a 1st,2nd and 3rd, so you are saying Kaberle is worth a 1st, two 2nds and two 3rds??? come one man thats just as bad as Couture, we will not cripple our future for one year of a player we already have in Boyle, Leafs fans should not be allowed to make Ryan or Kaberle proposals,PLEAASEE mods? You can give us your 2nd and 3rd and maybe we have a deal...oh wait nevermind
I'm not saying the deal is fair, in fact, it isn't but to say your team won't "cripple" their future for a one year rental is basically your opinion not that of teams management. You think SJ would be the first team to trade young talent for proven vets?

Get realistic, every year fans from every team say the same thing and yet trades involving vets and prospects are constantly made. It's fine that the Sharks are not interested in Kaberle, imo, they shouldn't be but if your team was, you bet your ass it would cost some of the that future.

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Old
07-07-2010, 06:10 PM
  #60
matt trick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
I'm not saying the deal is fair, in fact, it isn't but to say your team won't "cripple" their future for a one year rental is basically your opinion not that of teams management. You think SJ would be the first team to trade young talent for proven vets?

Get realistic, every year fans from every team say the same thing and yet trades involving vets and prospects are constantly made. It's fine that the Sharks are not interested in Kaberle, imo, they shouldn't be but if your team was, you bet your ass it would cost some of the that future.
Teams virtually never trade a player like Setoguchi for a rental. A top prospect? Sure (though not an elite one). A solid young forward or d-man? Possibly. But it won't be one like Neal, Setoguchi, or Pavelski, and certainly not someone like Ryan or Carter.

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Old
07-07-2010, 06:12 PM
  #61
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The only one that is semi-realistic is the Phoenix one. The others are just horrible

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Old
07-07-2010, 06:16 PM
  #62
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I'm a Leafs fan and I truly do think that Kaberle has a little more value than fans of opposing teams believe ---- BUT, he certainly does not have the great value some of these proposals are suggesting, because let's face it, if he did...a trade would have been made by now.

Burke has stated he has rejected a bunch of offers because they simply haven't been good ones. That should show everyone what his value is to other teams - good, but not great. So Burke will settle for something in the middle.

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Old
07-07-2010, 06:22 PM
  #63
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Kaberle for Redden, Drury and Rosival?

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Old
07-07-2010, 06:32 PM
  #64
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Clowe for Kaberle

Thoughts?

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Old
07-07-2010, 07:01 PM
  #65
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJfortheCUP View Post
Clowe for Kaberle

Thoughts?
Dale Mitchell for Clowe

Thoughts?

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Old
07-07-2010, 07:09 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
(1)
To Toronto:
J.Stoll
W.Simmonds

To Los Angeles:
M.Grabovski
T.Kaberle
Los Angeles is giving way too much up for Kaberle. I have a hard time believing that they need Kaberle when they have Doughty already and Hickey hasn't been officially filed under "bust" yet. I love how you guys think you're being nice throwing in Grabovski.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
(2)
To Toronto:
D.Stafford
M.Mancari
Z.Kassian


To Buffalo:
K.Ryan
T.Kaberle
I'd say too little is going back to Toronto. Maybe I'm just not as high on Kassian as everybody else. The only player I would really want for the Leafs if I were a Leaf fan is Mancari. He would be a great pickup in a deal for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
(3)
To Toronto:
D.Setoguchi
2nd in 2011
3rd in 2011

To San Jose:
T.Kaberle
Great deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
(4)
To Toronto:
S.Upshall
B.MacLean
N.Ross

To Phoenix:
Jay Rosehill
T.Kaberle
Phoenix gets fleeced...hard. Upshall was their leading goal scorer before injury and was having a stellar year. MacLean isn't a throw in. He's still a very promising prospect and Nick Ross is a nice prospect to have. Toronto would need to give up more valuable assets for this to happen.

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Old
07-07-2010, 07:22 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Dale Mitchell for Clowe

Thoughts?
Stalker!!

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Old
07-07-2010, 07:24 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BodamsHjammer View Post
Los Angeles is giving way too much up for Kaberle. I have a hard time believing that they need Kaberle when they have Doughty already and Hickey hasn't been officially filed under "bust" yet. I love how you guys think you're being nice throwing in Grabovski.


I'd say too little is going back to Toronto. Maybe I'm just not as high on Kassian as everybody else. The only player I would really want for the Leafs if I were a Leaf fan is Mancari. He would be a great pickup in a deal for them.


Great deal.


Phoenix gets fleeced...hard. Upshall was their leading goal scorer before injury and was having a stellar year. MacLean isn't a throw in. He's still a very promising prospect and Nick Ross is a nice prospect to have. Toronto would need to give up more valuable assets for this to happen.
We're trying to be sneaky, hoping that no one sees his name.

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Old
07-07-2010, 09:04 PM
  #69
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Just stop, please, stop.

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Old
07-07-2010, 09:09 PM
  #70
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[QUOTE=BodamsHjammer;26805694]

Great deal.
QUOTE]


Hope that wink is one of "good luck" rather than "possibility"

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Old
07-07-2010, 09:20 PM
  #71
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Kaberle to Toronto.

Next dumb thread.

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Old
07-07-2010, 09:56 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Dale Mitchell for Clowe

Thoughts?
Dale Mitchell- 5'9 prospect who will be spectacularly lucky to become a top 6 forward, or NHL player at all.
Ryane Clowe- top 6 LW who hits, fights, and is considered a leader by Shark teammates and coaching staff. Unfortunately he is merely average defensively and slow. Three years at 3.625 million remaining. No NTC.
Thomas Kaberle- Top pairing d-man and high end PPQB. Excellent first pass, accurate shot, average size, fairly priced at a 4.25 mill cap hit. Cons: only adequate defensively, not physical, one year remaining on current contract, almost certainly unwilling to re-sign with a western team.

We both know that comparison isn't even close, so why bother making it?

Getting a power forward LW of Clowe's quality undeniably meets two of Toronto's needs- toughness in the top 6 and left winger capable of putting up 50-60 points.

Kaberle fills San Jose's need of a top pairing d-man, but only in the short term, and his greatest asset (as a PPQB) isn't something San Jose is desperate for- though his puckmoving would be rather valuable.

At the end of the day Kaberle is a better player than Clowe, but he is also five years older, signed for two fewer years, and is a virtual certainty to not re-sign with a western team. I could certainly see a deal done based on something around these two, but I think Toronto would want more than just Clowe, and San Jose would refuse without getting an extension- which is unlikely to happen.

I think Toronto and the leafs fans should happily keep Kaberle, but those fans who think they are going to get something like a Neal or Setoguchi are going to be disappointed. Than again, I don't see Kabs being traded either, because the Leafs would get.

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Old
07-07-2010, 10:03 PM
  #73
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyLeafs View Post
We're trying to be sneaky, hoping that no one sees his name.
Alas, we're now in the habit of actively looking for it, since its presence can instantly tell us whether or not a trade idea is Good or Bad.

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Old
07-07-2010, 10:04 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Dale Mitchell- 5'9 prospect who will be spectacularly lucky to become a top 6 forward, or NHL player at all.
Ryane Clowe- top 6 LW who hits, fights, and is considered a leader by Shark teammates and coaching staff. Unfortunately he is merely average defensively and slow. Three years at 3.625 million remaining. No NTC.
Thomas Kaberle- Top pairing d-man and high end PPQB. Excellent first pass, accurate shot, average size, fairly priced at a 4.25 mill cap hit. Cons: only adequate defensively, not physical, one year remaining on current contract, almost certainly unwilling to re-sign with a western team.

We both know that comparison isn't even close, so why bother making it?

Getting a power forward LW of Clowe's quality undeniably meets two of Toronto's needs- toughness in the top 6 and left winger capable of putting up 50-60 points.

Kaberle fills San Jose's need of a top pairing d-man, but only in the short term, and his greatest asset (as a PPQB) isn't something San Jose is desperate for- though his puckmoving would be rather valuable.

At the end of the day Kaberle is a better player than Clowe, but he is also five years older, signed for two fewer years, and is a virtual certainty to not re-sign with a western team. I could certainly see a deal done based on something around these two, but I think Toronto would want more than just Clowe, and San Jose would refuse without getting an extension- which is unlikely to happen.

I think Toronto and the leafs fans should happily keep Kaberle, but those fans who think they are going to get something like a Neal or Setoguchi are going to be disappointed. Than again, I don't see Kabs being traded either, because the Leafs would get.
It's a trolling post...just like the idea of Clowe-for-Kaberle. Clowe may meet the needs of the Leafs, but so does a guy like Alexei Ponikarovsky or Alexander Frolov; and neitehr of them will cost the Leafs Tomas Kaberle. The reality is that Kaberle problably isn't going to get traded, and even if he is, the only team that MIGHT be in a position to give up enough for him without a contracct extension is the Boston Bruins.

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Old
07-07-2010, 10:17 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Dale Mitchell for Clowe

Thoughts?
Lol from I guy that oversales Kaberle at every turn. values a minor league player for a proven performer how about Kaberle + Bozak for Clowe

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