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Points per game averages!! Best to worse!!

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Old
04-01-2005, 05:56 AM
  #51
reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Bernie Federko at #12. All I hear is how this guy shouldnt be in the HOF...he was overated....never accomplished much. Blah, blah, blah. I know he never won any major awards or a Stanley Cup. But he was a very, very good player. And terribly underrated by most people.

.
I mentioned this recently in another thread, but had Federko played for Toronto or New York and had the exact same career, he would`ve been inducted to the HOF a lot earlier and nobody would`ve questioned it. I

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04-01-2005, 05:58 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Bernie Federko at #12. All I hear is how this guy shouldnt be in the HOF...he was overated....never accomplished much. Blah, blah, blah. I know he never won any major awards or a Stanley Cup. But he was a very, very good player. And terribly underrated by most people.

.
I mentioned this recently in another thread, but had Federko played for Toronto or New York and had the exact same career, he would`ve been inducted to the HOF a lot earlier and nobody would`ve questioned it. If he`s going to be criticized for not winning a Stanley Cup or any awards then shouldn`t that also apply to Darryl Sittler and Borje Salming?

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04-01-2005, 12:38 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOVALEV10
Hey thanks a lot my friend... I know i'm asking a lot but could you make a final list of players who arent playing anymore or are more then 35 years old? Just to see where the legends/veterans stand. Oh and the minimum of games played can you make it 1000? Thanks man you're really like one of the most knowledgeable (sp?) posters in here. Oh and only based on NHL not WHA
Thanks, I really appreciate it. Like I said these lists take me 2 minutes to make, putting in all the numbers last year was the hard part.

Here it is: highest adjusted PPG, NHL only, min 1000 gp, old/retired players only:

Wayne Gretzky -- 1,543 -- 2,518 -- 1.63
Joe Sakic -- 1,192 -- 1,471 -- 1.23
Phil Esposito -- 1,369 -- 1,517 -- 1.11
Steve Yzerman -- 1,500 -- 1,651 -- 1.10
Brett Hull -- 1,304 -- 1,431 -- 1.10
Marcel Dionne -- 1,388 -- 1,508 -- 1.09
Howie Morenz -- 1,062 -- 1,138 -- 1.07
Jean Beliveau -- 1,292 -- 1,366 -- 1.06
Gordie Howe -- 2,061 -- 2,148 -- 1.04
Mark Recchi -- 1,210 -- 1,254 -- 1.04
Frank Boucher -- 1,010 -- 1,046 -- 1.04
Bobby Hull -- 1,203 -- 1,246 -- 1.04
Adam Oates -- 1,379 -- 1,414 -- 1.03
Peter Stastny -- 1,002 -- 1,023 -- 1.02
Theo Fleury -- 1,120 -- 1,142 -- 1.02
Guy Lafleur -- 1,160 -- 1,169 -- 1.01
Dale Hawerchuk -- 1,222 -- 1,215 -- 0.99
Mark Messier -- 1,808 -- 1,769 -- 0.98
Ron Francis -- 1,778 -- 1,738 -- 0.98
Luc Robitaille -- 1,406 -- 1,368 -- 0.97
Stan Mikita -- 1,529 -- 1,475 -- 0.96
Maurice Richard -- 1,255 -- 1,192 -- 0.95
Paul Coffey -- 1,459 -- 1,370 -- 0.94
Jari Kurri -- 1,295 -- 1,213 -- 0.94
Bernie Geoffrion -- 1,029 -- 963 -- 0.94
Nels Stewart -- 1,173 -- 1,094 -- 0.93
Gil Perreault -- 1,228 -- 1,144 -- 0.93
Bernie Nicholls -- 1,177 -- 1,094 -- 0.93
Brendan Shanahan -- 1,305 -- 1,204 -- 0.92
Denis Savard -- 1,245 -- 1,147 -- 0.92
Aurel Joliat -- 1,277 -- 1,172 -- 0.92
Bryan Trottier -- 1,309 -- 1,195 -- 0.91
Peter Bondra -- 1,017 -- 925 -- 0.91
Bernie Federko -- 1,025 -- 931 -- 0.91
Joe Nieuwendyk -- 1,216 -- 1,094 -- 0.90
Bobby Clarke -- 1,185 -- 1,062 -- 0.90
Doug Gilmour -- 1,518 -- 1,348 -- 0.89
Andy Bathgate -- 1,236 -- 1,093 -- 0.88
Ray Bourque -- 1,665 -- 1,447 -- 0.87
Jean Ratelle -- 1,371 -- 1,191 -- 0.87
Michel Goulet -- 1,110 -- 964 -- 0.87
Rod Gilbert -- 1,156 -- 1,000 -- 0.86
Brian Leetch -- 1,183 -- 1,022 -- 0.86
Frank Mahovlich -- 1,328 -- 1,146 -- 0.86
Vincent Damphousse -- 1,420 -- 1,217 -- 0.86
Darryl Sittler -- 1,131 -- 966 -- 0.85
Joe Mullen -- 1,109 -- 941 -- 0.85
Dino Ciccarelli -- 1,279 -- 1,083 -- 0.85
Steve Larmer -- 1,056 -- 891 -- 0.84
Al MacInnis -- 1,453 -- 1,219 -- 0.84

These guys all played a long time at a high level. It's nice seeing both Sakic and Yzerman in the top 5. Also interesting to see Fleury at #15.

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Old
04-01-2005, 12:46 PM
  #54
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Lists like this should remind people just how dominant Selanne was in the 90's...Those were the days...sigh...

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04-01-2005, 01:37 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
Thanks, I really appreciate it. Like I said these lists take me 2 minutes to make, putting in all the numbers last year was the hard part.

Here it is: highest adjusted PPG, NHL only, min 1000 gp, old/retired players only:

Wayne Gretzky -- 1,543 -- 2,518 -- 1.63
Joe Sakic -- 1,192 -- 1,471 -- 1.23
Phil Esposito -- 1,369 -- 1,517 -- 1.11
Steve Yzerman -- 1,500 -- 1,651 -- 1.10
Brett Hull -- 1,304 -- 1,431 -- 1.10
Marcel Dionne -- 1,388 -- 1,508 -- 1.09
Howie Morenz -- 1,062 -- 1,138 -- 1.07
Jean Beliveau -- 1,292 -- 1,366 -- 1.06
Gordie Howe -- 2,061 -- 2,148 -- 1.04
Mark Recchi -- 1,210 -- 1,254 -- 1.04
Frank Boucher -- 1,010 -- 1,046 -- 1.04
Bobby Hull -- 1,203 -- 1,246 -- 1.04
Adam Oates -- 1,379 -- 1,414 -- 1.03
Peter Stastny -- 1,002 -- 1,023 -- 1.02
Theo Fleury -- 1,120 -- 1,142 -- 1.02
Guy Lafleur -- 1,160 -- 1,169 -- 1.01
Dale Hawerchuk -- 1,222 -- 1,215 -- 0.99
Mark Messier -- 1,808 -- 1,769 -- 0.98
Ron Francis -- 1,778 -- 1,738 -- 0.98
Luc Robitaille -- 1,406 -- 1,368 -- 0.97
Stan Mikita -- 1,529 -- 1,475 -- 0.96
Maurice Richard -- 1,255 -- 1,192 -- 0.95
Paul Coffey -- 1,459 -- 1,370 -- 0.94
Jari Kurri -- 1,295 -- 1,213 -- 0.94
Bernie Geoffrion -- 1,029 -- 963 -- 0.94
Nels Stewart -- 1,173 -- 1,094 -- 0.93
Gil Perreault -- 1,228 -- 1,144 -- 0.93
Bernie Nicholls -- 1,177 -- 1,094 -- 0.93
Brendan Shanahan -- 1,305 -- 1,204 -- 0.92
Denis Savard -- 1,245 -- 1,147 -- 0.92
Aurel Joliat -- 1,277 -- 1,172 -- 0.92
Bryan Trottier -- 1,309 -- 1,195 -- 0.91
Peter Bondra -- 1,017 -- 925 -- 0.91
Bernie Federko -- 1,025 -- 931 -- 0.91
Joe Nieuwendyk -- 1,216 -- 1,094 -- 0.90
Bobby Clarke -- 1,185 -- 1,062 -- 0.90
Doug Gilmour -- 1,518 -- 1,348 -- 0.89
Andy Bathgate -- 1,236 -- 1,093 -- 0.88
Ray Bourque -- 1,665 -- 1,447 -- 0.87
Jean Ratelle -- 1,371 -- 1,191 -- 0.87
Michel Goulet -- 1,110 -- 964 -- 0.87
Rod Gilbert -- 1,156 -- 1,000 -- 0.86
Brian Leetch -- 1,183 -- 1,022 -- 0.86
Frank Mahovlich -- 1,328 -- 1,146 -- 0.86
Vincent Damphousse -- 1,420 -- 1,217 -- 0.86
Darryl Sittler -- 1,131 -- 966 -- 0.85
Joe Mullen -- 1,109 -- 941 -- 0.85
Dino Ciccarelli -- 1,279 -- 1,083 -- 0.85
Steve Larmer -- 1,056 -- 891 -- 0.84
Al MacInnis -- 1,453 -- 1,219 -- 0.84

These guys all played a long time at a high level. It's nice seeing both Sakic and Yzerman in the top 5. Also interesting to see Fleury at #15.
I'd say the most impressive/interesting name to me now is Mark Recchi

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04-01-2005, 02:42 PM
  #56
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The title of the thread is: Points per game averages!! Best to worse!!

I wonder who owns the record for the worst points per game average???

How about forwards who have played a minimum of 500 games?

PS... In an effort to keep the goons out of this one, is there a way to keep the PIMs down in the list?

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04-01-2005, 03:34 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint
The title of the thread is: Points per game averages!! Best to worse!!

I wonder who owns the record for the worst points per game average???

How about forwards who have played a minimum of 500 games?

PS... In an effort to keep the goons out of this one, is there a way to keep the PIMs down in the list?
Sorry, I don't have a way of filtering out penalty minutes, so most of the players on here are goons.

Most adjusted ppg, NHL only, min 500 gp:

Stu Grimson -- 757 -- 42 -- 0.05
Mick Vukota -- 606 -- 42 -- 0.07
Ken Baumgartner -- 701 -- 51 -- 0.07
Darren Langdon -- 521 -- 42 -- 0.08
Art Wiebe -- 712 -- 59 -- 0.08
Rob Ray -- 934 -- 94 -- 0.10
Dave Brown -- 759 -- 86 -- 0.11
Jim McKenzie -- 907 -- 108 -- 0.12
Todd Ewen -- 537 -- 68 -- 0.13
Jim Cummins -- 536 -- 68 -- 0.13
Shane Churla -- 509 -- 66 -- 0.13
Tim Hunter -- 850 -- 122 -- 0.14
Lew Morrison -- 589 -- 85 -- 0.14
Craig Berube -- 1,088 -- 161 -- 0.15
Mark Janssens -- 744 -- 112 -- 0.15
Walter Buswell -- 629 -- 95 -- 0.15
Kent Manderville -- 670 -- 111 -- 0.17
Kris King -- 886 -- 148 -- 0.17
Nick Fotiu -- 662 -- 113 -- 0.17
Joey Kocur -- 862 -- 149 -- 0.17
Marty Burke -- 889 -- 155 -- 0.17
Jeff Odgers -- 853 -- 151 -- 0.18
Mike Peluso -- 528 -- 98 -- 0.19
Jack Stewart -- 830 -- 156 -- 0.19
Leo Bourgeault -- 556 -- 105 -- 0.19
Roger Jenkins -- 567 -- 108 -- 0.19
Mike Sullivan -- 735 -- 147 -- 0.20
Basil McRae -- 600 -- 120 -- 0.20
Mike Eagles -- 888 -- 180 -- 0.20
Hal Laycoe -- 654 -- 134 -- 0.21
Joe Cooper -- 690 -- 142 -- 0.21
Dave Semenko -- 589 -- 123 -- 0.21
Bill Berg -- 568 -- 121 -- 0.21
Reg Hamilton -- 708 -- 151 -- 0.21
Jim Nill -- 537 -- 117 -- 0.22
Sandy McCarthy -- 763 -- 170 -- 0.22
Doug Young -- 668 -- 150 -- 0.22
Gino Odjick -- 620 -- 144 -- 0.23
Fern Flaman -- 1,094 -- 255 -- 0.23
Wilfred "Bucko" McDonald -- 756 -- 181 -- 0.24
Andrei Nazarov -- 587 -- 142 -- 0.24
Ralph Klassen -- 509 -- 123 -- 0.24
Craig Cameron -- 579 -- 141 -- 0.24
Marc Bureau -- 599 -- 147 -- 0.24
Kevin McClelland -- 602 -- 148 -- 0.25
Pat Conacher -- 558 -- 137 -- 0.25
Brent Hughes -- 846 -- 209 -- 0.25
Ronnie Stern -- 667 -- 166 -- 0.25
Jocelyn Lemieux -- 631 -- 157 -- 0.25
Jim Korn -- 612 -- 154 -- 0.25

Tie Domi just missed this list.

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Old
04-01-2005, 05:37 PM
  #58
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The name that struck me was Fern Flaman, who seems to be one of the few players on that list who wasn`t a goon ( he had fairly high PM numbers, but there wasn`t room on rosters for one-dimensional enforcers in those days.)

So you`d think: if he was contributing very little offensively, he must have been one hell of a defensive player for his career to last that long.

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Old
04-01-2005, 09:17 PM
  #59
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It's an unfortunate fact that Lindros was number five starting 2002-2003 - now he's not even on the list. Damn Rangers, damn Scott Stevens and damn concussions!
I've investigated and Lindros is 1.21 tying him for 8th - sweet.

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Old
04-01-2005, 10:50 PM
  #60
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Using the stats provided to us all by the Hockey Outsider I've decided to match the rule changes in the NHL over the years to the years they were introduced in.

Here are the NHL stats (season, goals, total games player, goals per game):

1918 -- 342 -- 44 -- 7.77 With the addition of two lines painted on the ice twenty feet from center, three playing zones were created, producing a forty-foot neutral center ice area in which forward passing was permitted. Kicking the puck was permitted in this neutral zone. Tabulation of assists began.

1919 -- 223 -- 27 -- 8.26
1920 -- 460 -- 48 -- 9.58
1921 -- 406 -- 48 -- 8.46 Goaltenders allowed to pass the puck forward up to their own blue line. Overtime limited to twenty minutes. Minor penalties changed from three minutes to two minutes.

1922 -- 380 -- 48 -- 7.92
1923 -- 313 -- 48 -- 6.52
1924 -- 255 -- 48 -- 5.31
1925 -- 450 -- 90 -- 5.00
1926 -- 581 -- 126 -- 4.61 Blue lines repositioned to sixty feet from each goal-line, thereby enlarging the neutral zone and standardizing distance from blueline to goal. Uniform goal nets adopted throughout NHL with goal posts securely fastened to ice.

1927 -- 879 -- 220 -- 4.00
1928 -- 836 -- 220 -- 3.80 forward passing permitted in defensive and neutral zones and into attacking zone if pass receiver is in neutral zone when pass is made. No forward passing allowed inside attacking zone.

1929 -- 642 -- 220 -- 2.92 First Offside rule Introduced. Forward passing permitted inside all three zones but not permitted across either blue line.

1930 -- 1,301 -- 220 -- 5.91
1931 -- 1,056 -- 220 -- 4.80
1932 -- 957 -- 192 -- 4.98
1933 -- 983 -- 216 -- 4.55
1934 -- 1,041 -- 216 -- 4.82 Ralph Bowman; St. Louis Eagles scores first penalty shot goal

1935 -- 1,087 -- 216 -- 5.03
1936 -- 831 -- 192 -- 4.33
1937 -- 946 -- 192 -- 4.93 The first rule to deal with icing is introduced
1938 -- 972 -- 192 -- 5.06
1939 -- 851 -- 168 -- 5.07
1940 -- 838 -- 168 -- 4.99
1941 -- 900 -- 168 -- 5.36
1942 -- 1,047 -- 168 -- 6.23
1943 -- 1,083 -- 150 -- 7.22
1944 -- 1,225 -- 150 -- 8.17
1945 -- 1,103 -- 150 -- 7.35
1946 -- 1,003 -- 150 -- 6.69
1947 -- 1,138 -- 180 -- 6.32
1948 -- 1,054 -- 180 -- 5.86
1949 -- 978 -- 180 -- 5.43 The center red line first appears on the ice
1950 -- 1,148 -- 210 -- 5.47
1951 -- 1,139 -- 210 -- 5.42 Goal crease enlarged from 3 x 7 feet to 4 x 8 feet. Faceoff circles enlarged from 1 0-foot to 15-foot radius.
1952 -- 1,090 -- 210 -- 5.19
1953 -- 1,006 -- 210 -- 4.79
1954 -- 1,011 -- 210 -- 4.81
1955 -- 1,059 -- 210 -- 5.04
1956 -- 1,064 -- 210 -- 5.07 Player serving a minor penalty allowed to return to Ice when a goal is scored by opposing team.
1957 -- 1,130 -- 210 -- 5.38
1958 -- 1,175 -- 210 -- 5.60
1959 -- 1,217 -- 210 -- 5.80
1960 -- 1,238 -- 210 -- 5.90
1961 -- 1,261 -- 210 -- 6.00
1962 -- 1,264 -- 210 -- 6.02
1963 -- 1,249 -- 210 -- 5.95
1964 -- 1,166 -- 210 -- 5.55 No bodily contact on faceoffs
1965 -- 1,208 -- 210 -- 5.75
1966 -- 1,277 -- 210 -- 6.08 Between-periods intermissions fixed at 15 minutes
1967 -- 1,252 -- 210 -- 5.96
1968 -- 2,476 -- 456 -- 5.43
1969 -- 2,718 -- 456 -- 5.96 Limit of curvature of hockey stick blade set at 1 inch
1970 -- 2,649 -- 456 -- 5.81
1971 -- 3,409 -- 546 -- 6.24 Third man to enter an altercation assessed an automatic game misconduct penalty
1972 -- 3,348 -- 546 -- 6.13
1973 -- 4,088 -- 624 -- 6.55
1974 -- 3,989 -- 624 -- 6.39
1975 -- 4,932 -- 720 -- 6.85
1976 -- 4,913 -- 720 -- 6.82 Rule dealing with fighting amended to provide a major and -tame misconduct penalty for any player who is clearly the instigator of a fight
1977 -- 4,783 -- 720 -- 6.64
1978 -- 4,747 -- 720 -- 6.59
1979 -- 4,756 -- 680 -- 6.99
1980 -- 5,901 -- 840 -- 7.03
1981 -- 6,457 -- 840 -- 7.69
1982 -- 6,745 -- 840 -- 8.03
1983 -- 6,490 -- 840 -- 7.73
1984 -- 6,627 -- 840 -- 7.89
1985 -- 6,532 -- 840 -- 7.78
1986 -- 6,667 -- 840 -- 7.94
1987 -- 6,165 -- 840 -- 7.34
1988 -- 6,239 -- 840 -- 7.43
1989 -- 6,286 -- 840 -- 7.48
1990 -- 6,189 -- 840 -- 7.37
1991 -- 5,805 -- 840 -- 6.91
1992 -- 6,123 -- 880 -- 6.96
1993 -- 7,311 -- 1,008 -- 7.25
1994 -- 7,081 -- 1,092 -- 6.48
1995 -- 3,727 -- 624 -- 5.97
1996 -- 6,700 -- 1,066 -- 6.29 Maximum stick length increased to 63 inches...ZDENO CHARA RULE?
1997 -- 6,216 -- 1,066 -- 5.83
1998 -- 5,624 -- 1,066 -- 5.28 The league instituted a two-referee system
1999 -- 5,829 -- 1,107 -- 5.27
2000 -- 6,305 -- 1,148 -- 5.49
2001 -- 6,781 -- 1,230 -- 5.51
2002 -- 6,441 -- 1,230 -- 5.24 Hurry-up face off and line change rules implemented
2003 -- 6,530 -- 1,230 -- 5.31
2004 -- 6,317 -- 1,230 -- 5.14

2006 and beyond...Larger Nets, smaller goalie equipment???

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Old
04-01-2005, 10:56 PM
  #61
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I never realised that Mark Recchi scored that much.

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04-01-2005, 11:03 PM
  #62
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So from the above illustration the biggest increases or drops in goals came in the following seasons when certain rule changes were implemented:

1921 -- 406 -- 48 -- 8.46 Goaltenders allowed to pass the puck forward up to their own blue line. Overtime limited to twenty minutes. Minor penalties changed from three minutes to two minutes.
1922 -- 380 -- 48 -- 7.92


1926 -- 581 -- 126 -- 4.61 Blue lines repositioned to sixty feet from each goal-line, thereby enlarging the neutral zone and standardizing distance from blueline to goal. Uniform goal nets adopted throughout NHL with goal posts securely fastened to ice.
1927 -- 879 -- 220 -- 4.00
* Maybe if NHL makes neutral zone smaller and attacking zone larger goals will go up?

1928 -- 836 -- 220 -- 3.80 forward passing permitted in defensive and neutral zones and into attacking zone if pass receiver is in neutral zone when pass is made. No forward passing allowed inside attacking zone.
1929 -- 642 -- 220 -- 2.92 First Offside rule Introduced. Forward passing permitted inside all three zones but not permitted across either blue line.
1930 -- 1,301 -- 220 -- 5.91

1997 -- 6,216 -- 1,066 -- 5.83
1998 -- 5,624 -- 1,066 -- 5.28 The league instituted a two-referee system
* Notice how the goals dropped by a half a goal a game in 1-season when NHL added a second on-ice official...too many calls maybe taking away from the flow of the game???

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Old
04-02-2005, 03:55 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_00
[1997 -- 6,216 -- 1,066 -- 5.83
1998 -- 5,624 -- 1,066 -- 5.28 The league instituted a two-referee system
* Notice how the goals dropped by a half a goal a game in 1-season when NHL added a second on-ice official...too many calls maybe taking away from the flow of the game???
I`ve never seen that possibility for the reason goals have gone down brought up before. Good point.

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