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Rangers sign Ryan McDonagh-3 year ELC

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07-09-2010, 08:49 AM
  #601
offdacrossbar
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Originally Posted by qwertyaas View Post
... I don't even get the arguement here by ODC. Sangs was outplayed by both Gilroy and MDZ. So Torts shouldn't have picked the top performing players to make the team?

I know a lot of people soured on Gilroy over the course of the season, but you all have to remember the optimism in the preseason. The guy was looking like a diamond in the rough. Then there was MDZ. And then there was Sangs - same story, different opportunity.
wait. what ? i didnt say anywhere in any of my posts that sanguinetti should have made the team outa camp last year. i also didnt say he deserved anything.

i said that matt gilroy was given that spot to lose and he didnt. and mdz won it.

i said that we bailed on bob too soon and its my opinion that torts the clown didnt care for him and when that happens you are gone. simple. thats it.

my point was simply that bobbys developmental curve was perhaps going to be greater than mdz's but that doesnt mean you bail on him so quickly. dmen do take longer to develop as playing defense at the nhl level is very difficult, much more so than playing forward.

look, bobby clearly came to camp unprepared for torts the clowns skating circus- where by he skated these guys into the ice- i guess to let them know hes the head clown and this is his team this year. alot of good that did.

last year we made many mistakes with our defense. many.

played redden too much

played rozy at all.

played gilroy too much even when he clearly had lost his confidence.

did not call up beer to play and give him a real chance to show his stuff- even after seasoned pack watchers said he was clearly ready to play.

gave bobby a cup of coffee- 5 games and never saw him again

eventually had to got to anders eriksson at the end of the season.

for all you homers who wail on about not developing our own young players and playing our draft picks and rushing kids and not giving them time to develop and contribute and blah blah blah......... alli hear is crickets chirping when it comes to the premature dumping of bobby.

the mcd thing may change the dynamic some what as he clearly bypasses bob on the depth chart. maybe it was bobby who inititated the request for trade. who knows ?

bottom line, the kid had back to back years at hartford that showed his offensive skills- that we saw when we drafted him btw, he was an ahl allstar and he was making strides. to move him so soon and for so little return is frustrating to me.

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07-09-2010, 08:49 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
and I still don't get the "Sanguinetti came to camp out of shape" narrative. I looked back at the training camp thread...Sanguinetti cramped up in one of the conditioning skates but still finished, and was praised for gutting it out. Another spin on it was that he went too hard for the first part and then cramped up at the end stretch.

From there it became "Sanguinetti was out of shape!" and things took off from there for some reason, and now we're at the point of saying "yeah he was just partying on the beach and it's totally understandable" which for some reason is being used to both excuse his not making the team and to crucify him for not making the team.

Also, Sanguinetti trained with Kris Draper that summer, he flat out states that, so no he wasn't just hanging out at the beach getting fat or something.

I still kinda like Sangs, but there's some rewriting of history here. He got outplayed, and he didn't display the offensive skills the Rangers were really looking for, while Del Zotto and Gilroy did.
I definitely agree that this is primarily what happened to Sangs. But I do think there was more to the "out of shape" story than just what was posted here - didn't one or two of the beat writers say, or at least hint, that the staff was not impressed with Sangs' performance?

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07-09-2010, 09:40 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wait. what ? i didnt say anywhere in any of my posts that sanguinetti should have made the team outa camp last year. i also didnt say he deserved anything.

i said that matt gilroy was given that spot to lose and he didnt. and mdz won it.

i said that we bailed on bob too soon and its my opinion that torts the clown didnt care for him and when that happens you are gone. simple. thats it.

...

last year we made many mistakes with our defense. many.

played redden too much

played rozy at all.

played gilroy too much even when he clearly had lost his confidence.
I agree with some points. Out of camp Gilroy and MDZ were the clear choices. But after Gilroy wasn't showing much, they could have sent him down and called Sangs up. That said, every opporunity Sangs got, he didn't prove he belonged on the team. It has nothing to do with a 'Torts hate'.

As for playing Redden too much. Sure but Sangs would not be a better choice for that role. He should have been replacing Gilroy. And as for Rozi... There's probably no point to mention it as we all know your hate for him - but our D without him would be much worse.

Did they bail on him too soon? Honestly, it's hard to tell. The fact that it's another wasted 1st round pick is pretty bad. But I honestly don't think he had a future with this team - at this point.

And just because a player is good in the AHL doesn't mean his game will translate over to the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I definitely agree that this is primarily what happened to Sangs. But I do think there was more to the "out of shape" story than just what was posted here - didn't one or two of the beat writers say, or at least hint, that the staff was not impressed with Sangs' performance?
I don't think many in the organization were really impressed with his performance on the NHL level. Both this season and last season in camp or as a callup.

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07-09-2010, 09:47 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I definitely agree that this is primarily what happened to Sangs. But I do think there was more to the "out of shape" story than just what was posted here - didn't one or two of the beat writers say, or at least hint, that the staff was not impressed with Sangs' performance?
He did get scratched for the first few preseason games, I think, but it's hard to tell if that's because of his conditioning skate performance or his performance in drills and scrimmages.

Again, if people can pull up some stuff that shows that Sanguinetti really was out of shape and got nailed for it, then I'm cool with that, I just don't remember seeing it at the time.

And again, I'm more amazed that being out of shape at training camp is now being used as a positive excuse (well yeah he was out of shape but man that crazy Tortorella!)

Even assuming Sanguinetti was out of shape, when your coach tells everyone "I want you in the best condition ever cuz we're going to work hard" and then you come to camp out of shape, is it really that out there for the coach to be upset with you or to form a negative opinion of you, especially if it's the first training camp he's had with you in it?

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07-09-2010, 10:48 AM
  #605
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The organization told you what they felt when they recalled Heikinnen and Erickson in the second half of the seson. Yes, Sanguinetti was hurt but at some point if they valued him, they could have gotten him back up. The writing was on the wall and a lot of people here didn't want to realize it. Including me.

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07-09-2010, 12:25 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Even assuming Sanguinetti was out of shape, when your coach tells everyone "I want you in the best condition ever cuz we're going to work hard" and then you come to camp out of shape, is it really that out there for the coach to be upset with you or to form a negative opinion of you, especially if it's the first training camp he's had with you in it?
Nope. Not disagreeing at all - was just clarifying that I remember the same comments about his being out of shape.

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07-09-2010, 12:44 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The organization told you what they felt when they recalled Heikinnen and Erickson in the second half of the seson. Yes, Sanguinetti was hurt but at some point if they valued him, they could have gotten him back up. The writing was on the wall and a lot of people here didn't want to realize it. Including me.
A lot of people also didnt want to objectively admit that Sanguinetti looked like garbage during his cameo last season.

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07-09-2010, 01:56 PM
  #608
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I liked Sangs, not gonna say I loved him but the guy looked disinterested and limp in camps and occasionally got the call up, which is confusing cause if anything... THATS YOUR TIME TO SHINE!

Regardless we had a log jam and we got Jesper and a 2nd. You never know, Sangs could turn into a perennial 15-35-50point player in this league, he could be an AHL allstar the rest of his career and he could turn into a serviceable offensive D-man. Either way, for my money McD is the better player and we made a good decision.

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07-09-2010, 02:12 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
A lot of people also didnt want to objectively admit that Sanguinetti looked like garbage during his cameo last season.
geez 5 games is a small sample.

might as well trade grachev now before his stock drops any further. the guy didnt exactly tear it up last year and if he fails to stand out this camp, hes well on his way to a ticket outa town.

it seems like we went from trading young players to keeping and moving young players.

when does the playing young players thing start ?

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07-09-2010, 02:17 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
geez 5 games is a small sample.

might as well trade grachev now before his stock drops any further. the guy didnt exactly tear it up last year and if he fails to stand out this camp, hes well on his way to a ticket outa town.

it seems like we went from trading young players to keeping and moving young players.

when does the playing young players thing start ?

Look, I really liked Sangs as a prospect, and was upset when he was traded, but really?? Anisimov and Del Zotto played full-time roles last season. Staal, Girardi, Dubinsky, Callahan, Lundqvist and a slew of other prospects got full-time roles since the lockout. This is simply a case where the management did not rate a prospect as highly as you or I, and moved him before his value (from their point of view) dropped any further. Stop taking the trade so personally.

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07-09-2010, 02:18 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
geez 5 games is a small sample.

might as well trade grachev now before his stock drops any further. the guy didnt exactly tear it up last year and if he fails to stand out this camp, hes well on his way to a ticket outa town.

it seems like we went from trading young players to keeping and moving young players.

when does the playing young players thing start ?
He also had played poorly at other levels, constantly had to improve a big hole in his game and was in the AHL for years already. One guy is 19 the other is 22. Horrible comparison amde to back up a horrible point. If you think Sangs deserved more time fine that's fair. I wish he coulda made it this year too but i'm also realistic about what he was worth at this point and it was less than what the Rangers got for him.

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