Not when you just let him stay in school for 4 years, don't get him into the Black Aces, then bring him into camp.... as a forward. If this kid can't get Hershey time at D this year he's toast.
They didn't want him to stay in school...the Caps tried to get him to turn pro two years in a row (before his junior and senior years), but he wanted to stay in college to try to win a title. It's not like they can kidnap the guy....
EDIT: Whoop...didn't see Almighty Mistress sk84fun's post.
I will try to keep an eye on Finley's skating. As I remember it, I would say its a shade below Sarge. What a hit Finley took from SDR last year behind the near side goal. I still contend thats when SDR hurt his shoulder.
Reports were that the Caps tried to get him to leave early and Finley chose to stay in school.
Finley was in Hershey one year after his season ended but before he signed so he couldn't participate, just watched and got a feel for the organization, etc.
Only season he was eligible for the black aces was a year ago once his NCAA eligibility was up and he signed an ATO and played in one regular season game in '08-09 (had the "fight" with Bissonnette). Pretty sure he went back to UND to finish some classes some point after that game.
hyperbole in line-item form but not necessarily revisionist I'd say. Yeah they "tried" to get him and it was his choice to stay. But either the kid didn't care, the caps didn't TRULY care, or the caps didn't let him know hard enough what staying that long would affect his development as a physical dman.
And yeah he got that one game but he took off right? Wasn't there plenty of season left and he went back to school?
Maybe I'm pissed and go overboard on my analysis because of those feelings. And especially cause I wanted Stasny in the 2nd and they jumped to get this guy. Not to mention the 05 draft in general.
Whoever's fault, he lacked development at higher levels, participation in camps and the length of time in Hershey that his peers did by age 20.
Then once he gets there... try him at forward. That to me said he was toast.
I'm sure I'm off on the details, but not the overall failure of the team.
edit: I know they can't kidnap him... and yes I remember the discussion of attempts to sign him. But to me they still "let" him stay. They need a better salesman!
hyperbole in line-item form but not necessarily revisionist I'd say. Yeah they "tried" to get him and it was his choice to stay. But either the kid didn't care, the caps didn't TRULY care, or the caps didn't let him know hard enough what staying that long would affect his development as a physical dman.
And yeah he got that one game but he took off right? Wasn't there plenty of season left and he went back to school?
Maybe I'm pissed and go overboard on my analysis because of those feelings. And especially cause I wanted Stasny in the 2nd and they jumped to get this guy. Not to mention the 05 draft in general.
Whoever's fault, he lacked development at higher levels, participation in camps and the length of time in Hershey that his peers did by age 20.
Then once he gets there... try him at forward. That to me said he was toast.
I'm sure I'm off on the details, but not the overall failure of the team.
edit: I know they can't kidnap him... and yes I remember the discussion of attempts to sign him. But to me they still "let" him stay. They need a better salesman!
They had no leverage. He wanted to stay all four years, and at the end of those 4 he could have been a UFA right away if he'd wanted to.
If they wanted to keep him as a prospect it was in their best interest not to be too forceful. He could have easily done as he wanted and decided he didn't want to sign with the Caps, take his chances with some other team.
The leverage is "hey boy, you're going to ruin your chances at the NHL... but by all means, enjoy partying"
I could see him staying for his Jr year. That team had some quality players. But once Toews and co left, he should have gone and I really wonder how much they and he cared.
Blah its true though if he was going to suck after his sr year, he's probably going to suck after his jr one as well.
If 0 is total team mismangement and 10 is perfect handling of a prospect... maybe I convinced myself off 1 and to 3.
The leverage is "hey boy, you're going to ruin your chances at the NHL... but by all means, enjoy partying"
I could see him staying for his Jr year. That team had some quality players. But once Toews and co left, he should have gone and I really wonder how much they and he cared.
Blah its true though if he was going to suck after his sr year, he's probably going to suck after his jr one as well.
If 0 is total team mismangement and 10 is perfect handling of a prospect... maybe I convinced myself off 1 and to 3.
He has to know his chances of making a career out of hockey weren't high either way, so there's little incentive for him to jump out early when he's on his way to a degree. It's not like he was going sign and jump right into the NHL; he'd have been giving up a great deal of future security by signing early and hoping to develop.
Like Carolina tried to use that leverage on Jack Johnson?
and pretty sure it was very late in the regular season when he played that 1 AHL game, might have even been the last regular season game of the year...I'll look it up.
Cail MacLean, SC coach, will be attending dev camp. "Although nothing officially has been put on paper, an affiliation agreement with the Caps is already in place. I mean, why would he be heading up to their rookie camp if it wasn’t."
Thx so he did leave before playoffs. It doesn't matter. Its history, pick sucked, situation sucked, player had potential but they fizz for all reason.
Pretty sure he stayed for a little bit longer and then left. (addn: And without going back and looking at the roster, it wasn't realistic to think he was going to play in the playoffs unless there were a number of injuries.)
Not defending the first two picks in 2005, but the context of the post-lockout rule changes is a factor.
For big defenseman isn't it the case that it takes them longer to develop?
Ask Jeff Schultz...
__________________
George McPhee....The Teflon GM. 15 years of failure and counting....
6 - Number of playoff series the Capitals have won since George McPhee took over as General Manager in 1997 (which makes him the third-longest-tenured GM in the League), three of which came in McPhee's first season on the job.
I could have told you that! I very vividly remember him being the first out of the tunnel for warm-ups and the ice crew forgot to remove a strip of carpet they had laid out behind the net…you figure out the rest!
Sk84fun- you seem to be the resident scholar on all Caps prospect issues. I was curious about a couple of former Caps draft picks, and whether or not the team still held their rights. Maybe you can help?
1. Brent Gwidt - Drafted in the 6th round in 2006, and is currently 22 years old. Playing NCAA hockey for Nebraska-Omaha. Noticed he isn't on the dev camp roster, and he's not listed on the WashingtonCaps official website as one of their NCAA prospects...
2. Brett Bruneteau - Drafted in the 4th round in 2007, and is currently 21 years old. Playing NCAA hockey for North Dakota. Also wasn't on the dev camp roster or the WashingtonCaps website as an NCAA prospect...
3. Pasi Salonen - Drafted in the 5th round in 2004 and is currently 24 years old. Playing for Ilves in the Finnish SM-Liiga. Never heard if we released his rights or what happened...since he was drafted prior to the lockout, don't we theoretically hold his rights until he's 31? He's still listed on the Caps website as a European Prospect http://capitals.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=42657
4. Peter Guggisberg - Drafted in the 6th round in 2004 and is currently 25 years old. Playing for Davos in the Swiss National League A (NLA). He's actually the best player on the team, and putting up great stats. Same is true with him and Salonen- never heard if we released his rights, because otherwise I would think we hold them until he is 31. He's also listed on the Caps website as a European Prospect (though his name is misspelled).
5. Mikhail Yunkov - Drafted in the 2nd round in 2004 and is currently 24 years old. Playing for Ak Bars in the KHL. I keep seeing rumors that he wants to come over and play here, but he's not very good for Ak Bars, so I'd be surprised if we signed him. He's also still listed on the Caps website as a European Prospect.
I also had questions about Nick Larson and Andrew Glass, but it looks like you're not sure about their status either. What is the scoop with Josh Godfrey? Do you know if his contract counts against the Caps 50-contract maximum? Any light you could shed on these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
P.S. I'm not sure how accurate the Caps Prospect Page is on their website since they still have Justin Taylor and Brett Leffler listed, and we released their rights a year ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc
First Post Updated
Notes: Only 3 players on my original list not on the roster and no surprises, i.e., the free agent invites are not listed.
Miskovic is on the list although currently RFA, he did receive a qualifying offer.
Andrew Glass not on roster; possible he was invited and can't attend due to conflict and/or injury; note he has attended in previous summers and as an NCAA player has to pay his own way.
Josh Godfrey not on list, but Bruess is. The 2 players that didn't get assigned to Hershey after SC's season was over. Godfrey did have a concussion near the end of the season only returning for 1 game before sitting again. He has also attended a number of camps in the past, but question his future in the organization anyway (I know I'm not alone on that topic.)
Larson - Not on roster; has never attended as an NCAA player and still not clear if Caps are even holding his rights anymore.
(Original Text removed from first post:
This is a bit early since the Caps haven't announced the schedule details or a roster yet, but since it is a little over a week away...
Anyway, if the mods want to keep up great; if they want to lock it until the official info. is released go ahead.
This is just a list of prospects (Caps hold rights) and contracted players - All speculation right now, although there have been a few mentions in articles about certain players planning to attend including several of the new draft picks. No indication from the Capitals as of now, which players are expected to be in attendance. Not sure if Holtby and Miskovic would be invited/expected to attend given their seasons in the AHL and have attended camp before; also, Miskovic is RFA right now; based on history both attending and not attending has occurred in this situation.) Larson is the only one I'm not sure if they still are holding his rights or if they released them at some point.)
Andrew Glass (NCAA; 2007 draft)
Josh Godfrey (ELC; 2007 draft)
Nick Larson (Minn. HS/USHL; 2007 draft)
Sk84fun- you seem to be the resident scholar on all Caps prospect issues. I was curious about a couple of former Caps draft picks, and whether or not the team still held their rights. Maybe you can help?
1. Brent Gwidt - ...
2. Brett Bruneteau - ...
3. Pasi Salonen - ...
4. Peter Guggisberg - ...
5. Mikhail Yunkov - ...
I also had questions about Nick Larson and Andrew Glass, but it looks like you're not sure about their status either. What is the scoop with Josh Godfrey? Do you know if his contract counts against the Caps 50-contract maximum? Any light you could shed on these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
P.S. I'm not sure how accurate the Caps Prospect Page is on their website since they still have Justin Taylor and Brett Leffler listed, and we released their rights a year ago.
The new CBA changed the rules for European prospects drafted under the old CBA. There was new expirations set depending on the draft class. Salonen and Guggisberg had to be signed, I want to say by 2007 (update, nope make that 2008) for the 2004 European draft picks, but they were not signed so their rights are no longer held by the Caps.
The exception with European draft picks are situations where the expiration date for rights occurred while there was no transfer agreement. For example Hedman and Yunkov. And then there was a new Swedish transfer agreement and Caps didn't sign him so he's now UFA.
Yunkov on the other hand, the Caps still own his rights due to being a Russian draft pick and the transfer agreement situation up until now. So on that list, the only one that it is my understanding the Caps are still retaining the rights to and listing on the reserve list is Yunkov, unless something has changed recently, I believe this is still the case.
oops: I missed a few of your questions,
Godfrey counts against the 50 contract count...see the contract thread.
Yes, the Caps roster list is typically inaccurate; I've been told this is in part due to the way the website and the NHL stuff coordinates???
My best guess on Larson is that they released his rights, but nothing to back that up and it's simply a guess. He's an NCAA player so as I noted before it's pay your own way Glass not sure, I assume they are still holding his rights and as I noted before it's simply an issue of pay your own way, conflict, injury or some combination of those.
Last edited by sk84fun_dc: 07-09-2010 at 12:55 PM.
not for nothing, but U.S. visas are issued by the U.S. Consulate and the process is facilitated by someone on the Caps staff.
Fact is, it's possible someone on the staff messed up, but it's also a much more complicated and timely process in recent years.
Also, to the person that posted, Kugyrshev's Canadian 'work visa' for playing in Quebec, even if it involves travel to the US to play the US based teams, e.g., Lewiston, would not be what he needed to attend camp with the Caps.
Could be, just seems odd how long he was on the Black Aces and something wasn't being taken care of a couple months ago. I just find it rather interesting since there seems to be a bunch of these issues around the two league this off season.
