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Blake Kessel

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Old
07-09-2010, 12:46 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
we're very aware, but we're not taking someone that you want to give up for a good prospect to do it... you'd need to give us Schenn to take Grabovski and no leaf fan would do that...... but then any sane person would know that the Isles would never want Grabovski
You raised a good point until this idiotic statement. I don't care if you're trying to show how this trade doesn't work for the Isles and I get your point, but the mere suggestion of us having to add Schenn is laughable. Would you pair up Bailey to get rid of Witt two years ago? No.

The Leafs aren't desperate to get rid of Grabovski. We NEED him whether we like him or not. Going into the season with Bozak and Mitchell as our top two centres would be more than disastrous and Kadri needs time with the Marlies before taking his top 6 role.

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07-09-2010, 12:55 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by zack81 View Post
I was just wondering, what it would take to get Blake Kessel, from the Islanders to the leafs. Why not bring in Phil's little bro.

I'm thinking

B.Kessel + 3rd for Grabovski?
B.Kessel for Toronto's 2012 1st round/second round picks and Torontos 1st round pick in 2013.

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07-09-2010, 01:53 PM
  #53
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Blake kessel won't be able to crack the islanders or leafs lineup for years to come anyways

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07-09-2010, 02:01 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ronnyweed View Post
Blake kessel won't be able to crack the islanders or leafs lineup for years to come anyways
Years may be a stretch. I could see him making a run at a spot next year, depending how this one goes. Jurcina is a one year deal, so someone will need to take that spot, although hamonic likely will.

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07-09-2010, 03:11 PM
  #55
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i think we have more than enough defenceman right now thanks! maybe if he was a forward

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07-09-2010, 03:34 PM
  #56
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The fact that people here don't believe that grabo can make a 7 point improvement just goes to show that the intelligence on HF has dropped tremendously recently. Do people not realize that even though he's a little older he's only going into his 3rd full year? Remember how Marty St.louis did not enter the league until he was 23 and did not get his first full season until he was 25, and did not break out until he was 27? Not to mention the fact that grabo was injured last year for a good 25 games, and it was his sophomore season (hence the slump).

It is not inconceivable or laughable that he puts up 55 points this year, while playing with much better linemates (yes he's never had good linemates before). If you put Grabo between Versteeg and Kulemin he's instantly surrounded by better talent. 55pts is not out of the realm of possibilities. Come on folkes, sure I am a Leafs fan, but no way do I expect grabo to get 55pts, but i will not be surprised if he does because he has the skill set and the drive to do so.. he just needs to have those two things every night, as well as stay healthy.

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07-09-2010, 05:15 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
i don't get the part where grabovski's value is so low that only by including schenn would the mighty islanders take his horrible contract.
because we have 3 centers we like better, and Grabovski has already worn out his welcome in montreal and well on his way towards doing that in Toronto as well..... Why would a rebuilding team with many impressionable young players willingly add a player with that reputation? thats why your comprehension is so bad. we deliberately got rid of comrie and campoli, because of their attitudes, why would we take back a guy who according to all reports is the same way ?


personally, I think Burke if given the chance will move Grabovski as soon as he can, he's not a Burke type player, and if he could find someone to play center, Grabovski would be history

Jfried, you know your stuff, but i dont think he'll get the ice time to get 55 points and for leaf fans benefit, so should you.... I think a better center is coming


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07-09-2010, 05:30 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Goose50 View Post
You raised a good point until this idiotic statement. I don't care if you're trying to show how this trade doesn't work for the Isles and I get your point, but the mere suggestion of us having to add Schenn is laughable. Would you pair up Bailey to get rid of Witt two years ago? No.

The Leafs aren't desperate to get rid of Grabovski. We NEED him whether we like him or not. Going into the season with Bozak and Mitchell as our top two centres would be more than disastrous and Kadri needs time with the Marlies before taking his top 6 role.
no the Suggestion that we infect our young locker room with someone of Grabovski's reputation, says we'd have to be seriously induced.

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07-09-2010, 05:48 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
no the Suggestion that we infect our young locker room with someone of Grabovski's reputation, says we'd have to be seriously induced.
Let me get one thing clear first. I'm not trying to force Grabovski on the Isles, but for arguments sake, there's really nothing wrong with him.

Grabovski was unhappy with the ice-time he was getting with the Habs and was traded to the Leafs...it really is nothing uncommon. It's not like he's causing a divide in the locker room by being unsatisfied with his playing time. He's had absolutely zero locker-room problems with the Leafs. Ron Wilson loves the guy so I don't know what kind of crap you're hearing. And his rivalry with the Kostitsyns has been resolved.

The only time Grabovski will be traded is when we need to clear some space for another center or Kadri somehow makes the Leafs this fall.

The idea of even adding Schenn to take on an average prospect just to take on Grabovski is absurd.

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07-09-2010, 06:00 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
Like a lot of Bruins fans I actually watched about 50+ Leaf games this past season with everything at stake. Ironically, watching him on a regular basis this past season it what has lead me to change my opinion of him. Before this past season, my opinion was largely formulated on a random smattering of games from the previous two seasons and his statistical output from is first season in Toronto. Watching him on a regular basis it's pretty clear to see that the guy has major holes in his game and is largely invisible on a lot of nights.

Sorry, but the whole "you didn't watch him enough" argument just doesn't hold any weight in this particular case...I've watched him plenty. He would have to make some major strides in his development to live up to the "55+ point" moniker that you've so liberally bestowed upon him. Might happen, but I don't think it's anywhere near the foregone conclusion that you want us to believe it is.
You're arguing with Leaf fans here. The group that already ordained Kessel a 50 goal getter, claims Grabovski will definitely get 55+ points, and that there was no way that the 1st rnd pick in 2010 they gave up would be a lotto pick.

Honestly take away common sense and practical thoughts and you got half of Leaf nation!

No one is going to take garbage.... I mean Grabovski for a decent prospect. Wake up Count Chocula!

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07-09-2010, 06:01 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose50 View Post
Let me get one thing clear first. I'm not trying to force Grabovski on the Isles, but for arguments sake, there's really nothing wrong with him.

Grabovski was unhappy with the ice-time he was getting with the Habs and was traded to the Leafs...it really is nothing uncommon. It's not like he's causing a divide in the locker room by being unsatisfied with his playing time. He's had absolutely zero locker-room problems with the Leafs. Ron Wilson loves the guy so I don't know what kind of crap you're hearing. And his rivalry with the Kostitsyns has been resolved.

The only time Grabovski will be traded is when we need to clear some space for another center or Kadri somehow makes the Leafs this fall.

The idea of even adding Schenn to take on an average prospect just to take on Grabovski is absurd.
no, it was absurd to want to ship him to us in the first place. it was absurd because everyone knows Gordon won't have players who dont buy in. its common knowledge around the NHL, Ask Brendan Witt. once we were there among the absurd, anything else is fair game.

and you may think Grabovski's issues are done, but he's had issues wherever he's been..... I doubt this leopard has changed his spots


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Old
07-09-2010, 06:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
no, it was absurd to want to ship him to us in the first place was absurd, once we were there among the absurd, anything else is fair game.

and you may think Grabovski's issues are done, but he's had issues wherever he's been..... I doubt this leopard has changed his spots
The only absurd thing is that you failed to understand what I posted. Grabovski to the Isles is absurd, but for God's sakes, read my post. I specifically said, 'Let me get one thing clear first. I'm not trying to force Grabovski on the Isles.'

Okay, well that's too bad for Grabovski then. Your second statement really is ignorance at it's finest, but whatever makes you happy

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07-09-2010, 06:17 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Goose50 View Post
Grabovski to the Isles is absurd,
i'm not saying you were. but the OP was..... you just agreed that it was absurd, you said so yourself...... I just made the Schenn comment to emphasize how absurd it was.

in no way did I expect Schenn to be traded for Blake Kessel, have you never heard of Hyperbole? A ridiculous proposal was made, not worthy of consideration. To emphasize how ridiculous it was, which you yourself have said it was, I made a proposal just as ridiculous, which was obvious to any intelligent poster

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07-09-2010, 06:28 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose50 View Post

Grabovski was unhappy with the ice-time he was getting with the Habs and was traded to the Leafs...it really is nothing uncommon. It's not like he's causing a divide in the locker room by being unsatisfied with his playing time. He's had absolutely zero locker-room problems with the Leafs. Ron Wilson loves the guy so I don't know what kind of crap you're hearing. And his rivalry with the Kostitsyns has been resolved.

Did he not fight with two teammates in practice while in Toronto? Jason Blake and Finger or another defenseman?

Anyways it's pretty hard to to determine Blake Kessels value, he is a solid prospect no doubt. He is probably valued higher by the Leafs due to the Kessel connection though.

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07-09-2010, 06:48 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Sundin is my hero View Post
The fact that people here don't believe that grabo can make a 7 point improvement just goes to show that the intelligence on HF has dropped tremendously recently. Do people not realize that even though he's a little older he's only going into his 3rd full year? Remember how Marty St.louis did not enter the league until he was 23 and did not get his first full season until he was 25, and did not break out until he was 27? Not to mention the fact that grabo was injured last year for a good 25 games, and it was his sophomore season (hence the slump).

It is not inconceivable or laughable that he puts up 55 points this year, while playing with much better linemates (yes he's never had good linemates before). If you put Grabo between Versteeg and Kulemin he's instantly surrounded by better talent. 55pts is not out of the realm of possibilities. Come on folkes, sure I am a Leafs fan, but no way do I expect grabo to get 55pts, but i will not be surprised if he does because he has the skill set and the drive to do so.. he just needs to have those two things every night, as well as stay healthy.
Can and will are two very different things. Can Grabovski put up 55 points...sure...he definitely can. He's already put up 48 points, he plays on a team largely devoid of top 6 forwards, etc. So, yeah, he can put up 55.

My contention is those particular leaf fans that fall into the groups that either categorize him as something he's not (ie, a 55 point scorer), or those Leafs fans that are attempting to jack up his value by saying that he will score 55 points...neither of which are true statements of fact.

Can Michael Ryder score 30 goals next year? Sure...he's done it twice before in his career and would have done it last year if he didn't break his face. But what if I start making the claim around here that his value is commensurate with that of a 30 goal scorer? Or make the claim that he will score 30 goals next season? I'd get laughed at, and the best part is that he's actually proven that he can reach that particular plateau...twice.

So, yeah, he can score 55 points next year, but spare me the lame "the intelligence on HF has dropped off" cracks just because I often require players to prove that they can accomplish something before given them such monikers. If/when Grabovski puts up 55 points then he'll earn such a title, but the guy that I watched last season strikes me more as a guy that will be in the KHL in two seasons than a guy that is all of a sudden going to blossom into a consistent 55 point producer as he nears his 27th birthday.

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07-09-2010, 07:59 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Raging Bull View Post
Did he not fight with two teammates in practice while in Toronto? Jason Blake and Beauchemin or another defenseman?

Anyways it's pretty hard to to determine Blake Kessels value, he is a solid prospect no doubt. He is probably valued higher by the Leafs due to the Kessel connection though.
fixed,

but your point is right on.

he also fought with team mates in Montreal. They despise him there, especially his former Belarussian friends the Kostitsyn Brothers, he fought with Blake and Beauchemin, in Toronto. and obviously Goose thinks that's a great locker room presence. Players in Montreal felt he was a me player after he abandoned the team in phoenix to go see his agent in LA to complain about his playing time, and went public about how he deserved to play over the Kostitsyn Brothers.

I guess Goose doesn't care though, to him hes a great influence

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07-09-2010, 08:19 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
that was your first mistake
Dude, you seem to have some idea of what you are talking about as far as hockey is concerned, but do you realize how big of a d*ck you come off as? I don't think you've had one post in this thread where you didn't attempt to belittle the poster you were responding to.

Just relax. Talk hockey. Enjoy life. Toke up if you have to. IT'S ALL GOOD

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Old
07-09-2010, 09:24 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
fixed,

but your point is right on.

he also fought with team mates in Montreal. They despise him there, especially his former Belarussian friends the Kostitsyn Brothers, he fought with Blake and Beauchemin, in Toronto. and obviously Goose thinks that's a great locker room presence. Players in Montreal felt he was a me player after he abandoned the team in phoenix to go see his agent in LA to complain about his playing time, and went public about how he deserved to play over the Kostitsyn Brothers.

I guess Goose doesn't care though, to him hes a great influence
And you were trying to lecture me about hyperbole? Give your head a shake.

He's not the greatest role model, but there certainly as bad as you make him out to be. 'Infecting the locker room'? Right.

So I guess Schenn and Orr are terrible locker influences because they fought with one another? As well as Moore and Finger and just about every player who's fought in practice, right? In the heat of the moment, things happen. You'd have to be stupid not to expect fights to be a normal occurence during practices.

On the Beauchemin incident:
Quote:
Wilson added that Grabovski, who has one goal in the last 13 games, might be frustrated with his lack of offence.

“It happens. It’s hockey,” he said. “Sometimes they get upset with themselves and it leads to a minor skirmish. But it’s nothing more than that.”
But I guess the coach of the team doesn't know anything, does he now?

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Old
07-09-2010, 09:32 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
That's because 55 points is the minimum realistic expectation. He's got the talent for 70; but that would require a significant improvement in consistency. 55 would be a minor improvement. He is 26 years old, but his problem isn't the lack of size or skill; it's the consistency and hockey sense. That doesn't improve with age, it improves with experience.

Any team that trades for him, is PROBLABLY going to get 55+ points out of him if he plays a full season. Just like the Leafs trading for Kris Versteeg, we're problably going to get 25+ goals out of him if he plays a full season.
Just like any team that traded for Grabovsky last season was probably going to get a 55+ point player? After all, a 15% improvement from year one to year two is reasonable.

Grabovski getting 55+ points this year is plausable, but not probable. Look at Kostytsin...scored 53 points in his first full season, went down to 41, and instead of rebounding to post 55+ he went down to 33.

Grabovsky has the potential to score 55 points this year, but it is in no way unreasonable to believe he scores less. It is not unrealistic to expect him to score the same as last year, or even slightly less

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07-09-2010, 11:02 PM
  #70
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This thread is quite funny, as after watching Phil, I figured defensive ability didn't run in the Kessel genes.

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07-09-2010, 11:57 PM
  #71
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Too bad the Leafs are attempting to win games this year....

$2.9m is hardly a bad salary for a guy who will problably put up 55 points this year, and Blake Kessel is nothing more than a guy like Jerry d'Amigo...problably give the edge to d'Amigo simply because he's 1 year behind...



He's a lot more fitting than Hanson & Mitchell, who are our only remaining NHL centres. Notice the lack of Bozak & Kadri being mentioned. Bozak seems to be better fitting, and Kadri has done nothing to suggest he will be any sort of fit at the NHL level, nevermind a 50 point player.... the overrating of prospects (especially leaf ones) continues to amaze...
when you can't find a Kaberle thread to annoy people with enter the next best thing. Grabs. I hope they both get traded just so I don't have to read your comments anymore about them

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