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How To Become An NHL/CHL scout?

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Old
07-09-2010, 10:01 AM
  #51
torontosports10
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Im the same way as you. I plan on getting involved with the Hockey Canada Center in my area, take courses with them. Start coaching, stay working with the Center and try to move my way up.

I will have a full time job working, but this would be more a weeknight, weekend thing to do, and something ive always been interested in.

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07-09-2010, 11:08 AM
  #52
MitchRobichaud
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I agree with a lot that is said in this thread, but for those who say it's impossible, you are very wrong. It's a lot of time in the rink, a lot of hard work, and not much money if any at all, but the best way to get started is volunteering for a tier 2 hockey team in your area.

It's a slow road to success for sure. I took the SMWW hockey GM and Scouting course and I've attended a couple of their sports conferences that they hold yearly at the NHL entry draft. The course doesn't guarantee you a spot in the hockey world, but it does add tools to your repertoire.

I worked for Rinknet Scouting Service for a couple of years before I decided to go back to school and finish a business degree. I have since decided to pursue hockey in a different manner. Instead of trying to focus on being a scout for other teams, I plan to start a magazine in the very near future and scout for myself, as well as give others who want to get into scouting a chance to show their talents.

I am currently looking to start the magazine in May 2011, but if anyone wants to volunteer, I would definitely keep in touch and offer tasks as soon as the current hockey season, depending on your surrounding area.

I live and breathe hockey and only want the same kind of passionate hockey personnel working on this project with me.

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07-09-2010, 02:40 PM
  #53
OHLArenaGuide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeySense View Post
I agree with a lot that is said in this thread, but for those who say it's impossible, you are very wrong. It's a lot of time in the rink, a lot of hard work, and not much money if any at all, but the best way to get started is volunteering for a tier 2 hockey team in your area.

It's a slow road to success for sure. I took the SMWW hockey GM and Scouting course and I've attended a couple of their sports conferences that they hold yearly at the NHL entry draft. The course doesn't guarantee you a spot in the hockey world, but it does add tools to your repertoire.

I worked for Rinknet Scouting Service for a couple of years before I decided to go back to school and finish a business degree. I have since decided to pursue hockey in a different manner. Instead of trying to focus on being a scout for other teams, I plan to start a magazine in the very near future and scout for myself, as well as give others who want to get into scouting a chance to show their talents.

I am currently looking to start the magazine in May 2011, but if anyone wants to volunteer, I would definitely keep in touch and offer tasks as soon as the current hockey season, depending on your surrounding area.

I live and breathe hockey and only want the same kind of passionate hockey personnel working on this project with me.
Ooh, unpaid labour! Where do I sign up?

In all seriousness, unpaid internships are illegal in Canada, make sure you've consulted with a labour lawyer before taking on a whole lot of unpaid volunteers to work for you.

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07-09-2010, 04:33 PM
  #54
The Scouting Report
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Originally Posted by OHLArenaGuide View Post
Ooh, unpaid labour! Where do I sign up?

In all seriousness, unpaid internships are illegal in Canada, make sure you've consulted with a labour lawyer before taking on a whole lot of unpaid volunteers to work for you.
Uh, that would be quite the ambitious lawsuit to file.

It would all be contingent on the parameters of his magazine, it might not even turn a profit or have revenues..

Given that assumption, considering these volunteers won't work full-time schedules or anything of that nature, there's absolutely no chance a Canadian judge would recognize them as employees of a venture that likely isn't making any money at all.

Furthermore, all he has to do is communicate with his guys that it's an unpaid volunteer position, and there's essentially no leverage for a lawsuit. Not that any of that matters, because something like this wouldn't last a second in court.

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07-09-2010, 06:44 PM
  #55
Tad McMikowsky
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I've been curious in this as well.

I just finished reading Future Greats and Heartbreaks by Gary Joyce. It's just starting that's the problem.

What is the pricing for the Sports Management World Wide Course?

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07-09-2010, 07:02 PM
  #56
Jamie Benn
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I really wanna get into the NHL/CHL Buisness anyway possible.

It's either that or becoming a director.

I've been told I know way to much hockey for my age, i'm 16.

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07-09-2010, 07:07 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by OHLArenaGuide View Post
Ooh, unpaid labour! Where do I sign up?

In all seriousness, unpaid internships are illegal in Canada, make sure you've consulted with a labour lawyer before taking on a whole lot of unpaid volunteers to work for you.
Not if done for course credits. I'm doing an internship right now that is unpaid. My university stipulates you aren't allowed to be compensated for you internship. (I was offered an internship by the Canucks that had a $1000 honorarium at the end of 4 months though).

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07-09-2010, 07:12 PM
  #58
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Not if done for course credits. I'm doing an internship right now that is unpaid. My university stipulates you aren't allowed to be compensated for you internship. (I was offered an internship by the Canucks that had a $1000 honorarium at the end of 4 months though).
You turned it down???

Woulda told the university to stuff it with their rules. Or not mentioned the honorarium. Call them back and take it.

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07-09-2010, 07:25 PM
  #59
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You turned it down???

Woulda told the university to stuff it with their rules. Or not mentioned the honorarium. Call them back and take it.
I didn't turn them down because of that. I took another internship that suited me better at the time. The money isn't an issue as we just accept it "under the table" in a way so the school doesn't know (even though the professors know what's going on, they just don't alert school's administration)

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07-09-2010, 07:28 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Stan Marsh View Post
I've been curious in this as well.

I just finished reading Future Greats and Heartbreaks by Gary Joyce. It's just starting that's the problem.

What is the pricing for the Sports Management World Wide Course?
I believe its $1,450

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07-09-2010, 08:08 PM
  #61
MitchRobichaud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHLArenaGuide View Post
Ooh, unpaid labour! Where do I sign up?

In all seriousness, unpaid internships are illegal in Canada, make sure you've consulted with a labour lawyer before taking on a whole lot of unpaid volunteers to work for you.
Actually, if a person volunteers to work for me, there is no Canadian law that prohibits it. A volunteer isn't the same as an full-time employee, so as long as the person knows they are volunteering, it's all good.

And even though they wouldn't be getting paid, there would still be perks to the job, which I won't get into any more details until people are hired.

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07-09-2010, 08:16 PM
  #62
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I heard they make like 40,000-60,000 a year lol

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07-09-2010, 08:22 PM
  #63
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My younger brothers, friends dad is a scout in the NHL for a big team (can't say which sorry) anyway he started off as a player and athlete through university and started climbing he played hockey for a little while in canadian university, then coached the same school for a few years to winning records. After that he went and did some scouting for ISS and CSS and after doing it for about 2-4 years he got some connections with some teams and become a q scout and 4 years later he become a head q scout

Should give you a rough idea it took him till almost 45 to make it as a NHL q scout

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07-09-2010, 08:27 PM
  #64
Lord J T Shark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spetzky View Post
It's basically a dream job for me. I have some knowledge of hockey, I'm still young, I love talking
about hockey. How do I get started?
have you ever played the game?

Have you taken any uni courses about psych and other fun stuff?

it is one of those jobs everyone wants, but to get it is hard and to keep it is even harder.

Knowledge is only 1/5 of the battle

How are your connections to the leagues in your area?

If you have never played the game, the first question is what kind of knowledge you have of the game? I played only to JR B and I can tell you--I have a different perspective to the game then those who have not played the game or those who play pick up games and think it is at the same level as a real league(no offense ment)

If you want to get involved and don't play the game--become a rink rat and find an in with minor league team that opperates on a small budget.

I know a few scouts and many are amused at how some people view their jobs. for the most part the pay is crap, travel is hard on the personal life, you stay in dives most of the time, and you spend most of the time watching players who will never play in the ECHL let alone the NHL.

Being a scout is not as glamerous as one thinks.

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07-09-2010, 11:30 PM
  #65
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I dont really see the point in taking any of these courses to be honest...

Look at almost every NHL GM or assistant GM...they are former players or were involved in the business in some way...

Its not what you know, its who you know.

And the guys without any sort of hockey background have a law background, like Feaster.

To me, its just a waste of cash...but thats my opinion.

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07-09-2010, 11:43 PM
  #66
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Most GM's graduated from big Universities.

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07-10-2010, 12:07 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafs38 View Post
Most GM's graduated from big Universities.
With law or accounting degrees id have to imagine.

Its not like joe blow with a High School diploma who knows lots about hockey is ever going to be a GM...its unlikely no matter how many of these courses you take.

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07-10-2010, 03:57 AM
  #68
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It takes a long time to make it to the NHL level in a management role (unless you are a Stevie Y or Scotty Nieds). When the current GM's were starting there probably weren't courses like that available so it's really not fair to discredit those courses because current GM's didn't attend. I havent taken any of those courses so i'm not saying they're worth the money but i don't think they'll hurt your chances.

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07-10-2010, 06:09 AM
  #69
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Very simply, get an internship in an NHL or AHL teams hockey operations department. From there bust your ass and differentiate yourself from everyone else. No task is too tedious.

I did this in college and was able to land a job after 3 years of interning (1 year unpaid) and after I graduated. It's a tough road.

I am not a scout btw but I do work in hockey ops for an NHL team.

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07-10-2010, 08:23 AM
  #70
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To answer the original question - sports teams have literally thousands of people every day trying to give them advice. Look on message boards like this one, listen to sports radio - everyone has an opinion. As a result, sports teams have elaborate internal walls built up to keep the opinions of the thousands out, because the day you start trying to satisfy everyone and listening to the opinions of random electricians, college students and taxi drivers is the day you're out of a job. This is why it took more than twenty years for Sabremetrics to penetrate into MLB - because the teams didn't want to hear from a bunch of nerds with calculators since they've been trained from day one to not listen to people like that. In that particular case, the internal walls were too high and didn't adequately separate the wheat from the chaff, but I digress.

So basically your task is first to get your name on a team's "people we actually listen to" list. Start with a local team and become a bird dog scout, filing reports on players for free. If you're actually good at your job, eventually they'll want to hire you because your opinions will be worth paying for. If you're not, well, stay in college, kids.

EDIT: Seriously, HF, you've got an automatic program to change "s aber" to "Sabre"?

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07-10-2010, 08:37 AM
  #71
Felonious Python
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Originally Posted by LaLaLaprise View Post
With law or accounting degrees id have to imagine.

Its not like joe blow with a High School diploma who knows lots about hockey is ever going to be a GM...its unlikely no matter how many of these courses you take.
That's like every player-turned-GM there's been. (although they might not qualify as a "Joseph Blow") I also don't think that there's any current managers (in the NHL) with accounting degrees.

Online courses are new, so they're unproven, but eventually someone will break through, and everyone will just as quickly be praising how they're great hockey factories.

Like anything else with the NHL, the odds of even getting a chance are very, very, very slim. Be happy with wherever you get to, keep working hard, and maybe you'll get with the right clique.


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07-10-2010, 08:52 AM
  #72
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well I am a current scout in the QMJHL (can not say what team because I do not want it getting back to my team I post on here and I started on here and love the board so I love to give information to help people know about future so that is why I still post) I got on by actually posting on here, and then getting asked by hockeys future to do articles for them, then Mckeens Hockey got me working for them for years, I used those years with a media pass to gain the right connections to make it to the CHL once a job came up with a team...another scout from my team just sent a resume to every QMJHL team and was brought on to us with a 1 year contact that was just extended to 3 years. But the work with Hockeys Future and Mckeens was volunteer and I did that for about 8 years, took a bit to get noticed but paid off.
this is exactly how a friend of mine did it. he started covering a team for some website (might have been mckeen's, not sure), and through that he got a media pass and started meeting "hockey people". one of those "hockey people" was a scout for nhl central, and he knew a qmjhl team was looking for a scout in the newfoundland area. he asked my buddy if he'd be interested, and the following day that team came to st.john's to play the fog devils...he met with the coach and got the job.

that's how the story goes. as you and lalaprise have said, its all about who you know.

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07-10-2010, 08:59 AM
  #73
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Thats what it takes, and unfortunately not a lot of people have the patience nor the time to do that.

Some people are also very cocky and think they know everything. Its great to have confidence in your own abilities but being overly cocky gets you no wheres. Some scouts i know think they are untouchable and will be right on every player and have hard times changing their opinions on certain guys, stubbornness as well.

Basically CHL scouts get paid very little, barely enough to cover expenses most of the time. You spend weekends in cold rinks, drinking horrible coffee, watching horrible (sometimes, especially early in the season) hockey games. Not to mention having to travel all over the place. You essentially use all your vacation time on hockey. You have to deal with the crazy parents who have delusional visions about their kid...

Its not glamorous, and once some people realize this, the luster seems to shine off and they a) do a horrible job of scouting because their heart isnt in it which leads to b) them quitting
again this sounds very familiar. my buddy scouted for a qjmhl team for a couple of years, but i think he gave it up last summer.

it doesn't pay anything, and if you're not totally stoked about simply being involved with a hockey team, there's not much fun in it. he got to go to a couple of training camps and really had fun. sitting around the table with the other scouts and the coaching staff, discussing the players, and being "on the inside" was always the best part he says.

but i guess the novelty wore off, as you say. in the middle of winter, there can't be much glamour is getting in a cold car and driving who-knows-how-far to stand in a cold rink and watch bad hockey. basically i think these teams are able to take advantage of younger guys who think being part of a team is cool. but i would think the novelty wears off in most cases.

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07-10-2010, 09:46 AM
  #74
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Actually, if a person volunteers to work for me, there is no Canadian law that prohibits it. A volunteer isn't the same as an full-time employee, so as long as the person knows they are volunteering, it's all good.

And even though they wouldn't be getting paid, there would still be perks to the job, which I won't get into any more details until people are hired.
I was at the draft in Ottawa and Montreal with SMWW. Spent 2 years scouting for a Q and NHL team but now am working in a different capacity in Hockey. I do spend a lot of time at the rink and wouldn't mind helping you out

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07-10-2010, 12:27 PM
  #75
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That's like every player-turned-GM there's been. (although they might not qualify as a "Joseph Blow") I also don't think that there's any current managers (in the NHL) with accounting degrees.

Online courses are new, so they're unproven, but eventually someone will break through, and everyone will just as quickly be praising how they're great hockey factories.

Like anything else with the NHL, the odds of even getting a chance are very, very, very slim. Be happy with wherever you get to, keep working hard, and maybe you'll get with the right clique.
I dont categorize players as 'joe blows'....im talking about just regular everyday people...

And your last paragraph sums it up. Its a long road...just have fun. Everyone I know who scouts at the CHL level would love to scout at the NHL level, but its not like we talk about it. We just continue to work hard and hopefully things will happen.

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