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Bob Murray will not trade Bobby Ryan

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Old
07-10-2010, 02:56 PM
  #51
hockeyfreak7
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This might be the most pitiful discussion ever on hfboards. Absolutely unreal.

NO ONE. And I mean NO ONE has EVER said that Gagne is worth more than Ryan. NOBODY said that. Chris, in fact, said the exact opposite.

So what did Chris say? He said on ice ability is just about equal. Gagne is one season removed of a 34/40/74 season, and Ryan just had a 35 goal, 69 point season. All Chris said is that when you put both of them on the ice, their abilities ARE similar. Anyone who disagrees with that is a homer. Basically, if Gagne was 22 with a 3 year deal worth 5 million and had never been injured before, he would be equal to Ryan.

In a vacuum, they are completely equal.

Take AGE, CONTRACT, and DURABILITY into account, and that is why Bobby Ryan would command at least 5X what Gagne would.

And I am pretty sure Shafer understands that...he never said otherwise.

I swear to God, people only read what they want to read just so they can have a pointless argument online. Grow up and read the entire post before jumping down someone's throat.

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Old
07-10-2010, 03:03 PM
  #52
The Naz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostly Clueless View Post
Double the goal total?
Let me know when he scores 40 goals twice. 'cause Gagne has. They both scored in the mid 30's last year.

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07-10-2010, 03:04 PM
  #53
Sean Garrity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NomNomNom View Post
LA needs to follow SJs lead here and pounce on a rival:

An offer of 6M x 3YR, would be pretty sneaky move by LA.

At worst, you make Anaheim sign a contract that would not be a favorable one for the Ducks.

Duck's will be coughing up more then they wanted to pay for, Bobby Ryan, by 1M (Their offer being at 5M) but also would be make Ryan a UFA at the end of the contract.

I understand that the Ducks are trying to offer Ryan a more lucrative (although sub-6M/yr) offer to stay long term, and a less financially favorable short term deal. I think the hold up is Ducks trying to avoid the 3 year term all together.

I also understand, Anaheim has an internal cap by management (Although, I could be wrong)

At best, LA picks up Bobby Ryan! and based on last seasons compensation, LA would have to pay up just a First, Second, and a Third. Chump change for LA

It's a win-win!
Bob Murray: "If somebody wants to give him an offer sheet, we have lots of space. We'll match."

Could set up a real interesting offseason next year though. With the Kings needing to sign Simmonds, Johnson, and Doughty things could get interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
From someone who watched a lot of Fowler last season, hes not NHL ready(gonna be a good d man, but isn`t there yet)

The free agent crop of d men is running pretty thin right now. Good luck finding a top 4 in there to play with Wiz.
Brookbank and Sbisa is gonna be a pretty shaky bottom pair.(usually want a solid vet to pair with rooks)
I agree Fowler will not be ready. Management has stated Sbisa will play a top 4 role somewhere, either in Syracuse or in Anaheim but he wont be on a bottom pairing. Brookbank was a great #6 towards the 2nd half of last season, most are very confident with him on the 3rd pairing.

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07-10-2010, 03:06 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce View Post
Let me know when he scores 40 goals twice. 'cause Gagne has. They both scored in the mid 30's last year.
False.

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07-10-2010, 03:22 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce View Post
WTF has Bobby Ryan done to make him so much better then Gagne.

He's stated that Ryan has better market value, and we would all base this on his potential, but he has not passed Gagne's peak yet. IF Gagne comes back and plays at near his potential, he is still slightly better. Both right now are 30 goal scorers, one with more potential, one with a better defensive game. Right now it's a wash, as far as on ice value goes today. In the open market, every GM in the league would gamble on Ryan's potential as a 40g PF, vs a near selke candidate, 30g, 70pt 30yo with injury concerns.

If you were to pick one tommorow for your national team, with both healthy, it would be a close decision, likely to come down to need. Potential would have no value.
He makes funny youtube videos. Has Gagne done this? I think not!!

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07-10-2010, 03:22 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karacter View Post
Bob Murray: "If somebody wants to give him an offer sheet, we have lots of space. We'll match."
No doubt, they'll most likely match. On the other hand, it may also be a bluff. I'm sure you have a better idea then me, but do the Ducks not have an internal cap as well? I remember reading somewhere that management is being sort of stingy with spending money on the team.

Anyways, as I mentioned earlier, if Anahiem does match the the above contract, it won't be too favourable for them. And that's why it would be quite a sneaky move to pull by LA :p

I assume, this would be the contract Anahiem is trying to avoid from day one: Short term, high pay, leading right to UFA.

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07-10-2010, 03:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
He didnt say he was worth more. He also said that Ryan had more value.
The guy I'm responding to said Gagne's on ice value was equal to Ryans this year and that he thinks Gagne will be slightly more valuable this year if he plays his best. So maybe you should know why you're quoting someone next time LoL.

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07-10-2010, 03:30 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
The guy I'm responding to said Gagne's on ice value was equal to Ryans this year and that he thinks Gagne will be slightly more valuable this year if he plays his best. So maybe you should know why you're quoting someone next time LoL.
Injuries and age aside, if you put Gagne on the ice instead of Ryan, you will have similar production.

It's not a downgrade at all except that Gagne's production will start to diminish much sooner than Ryan's. But without age, they have similar on ice ability at the current time.

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07-10-2010, 03:35 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
The guy I'm responding to said Gagne's on ice value was equal to Ryans this year and that he thinks Gagne will be slightly more valuable this year if he plays his best. So maybe you should know why you're quoting someone next time LoL.
ON ICE value is different from off ice value. Both players will give you the same value on ice but because of the age difference and contract Ryan has more value. Maybe yous hould learn what hes trying to convey. He admitted Ryan was worth more despite the fact that what they bring on the ice production was is similar.

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07-10-2010, 03:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karacter View Post
False.
I was reffering to 08-09, but nice counterpoint anyway!

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07-10-2010, 03:45 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce View Post
I was reffering to 08-09, but nice counterpoint anyway!
No need because you made it for me in your first post.


Last edited by Sean Garrity: 07-10-2010 at 03:54 PM.
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Old
07-10-2010, 03:54 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NomNomNom View Post
No doubt, they'll most likely match. On the other hand, it may also be a bluff. I'm sure you have a better idea then me, but do the Ducks not have an internal cap as well? I remember reading somewhere that management is being sort of stingy with spending money on the team.

Anyways, as I mentioned earlier, if Anahiem does match the the above contract, it won't be too favourable for them. And that's why it would be quite a sneaky move to pull by LA :p

I assume, this would be the contract Anahiem is trying to avoid from day one: Short term, high pay, leading right to UFA.
There has been an "internal cap" for something like at least 3 years now, but the Ducks have been going over the supposed "internal cap" every year so take it with a grain of salt. Of course, they would like to be around whatever number they set, but management has shown before that they are willing to spend if the team is going to contend. I imagine Murray has a number in his head that he will match up to(I would guess 6.2M).

It would be a very sneaky move by LA, but once again could be risky, and your exactly right that the type of contract you are proposing is exactly what the Ducks do not want.

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Old
07-10-2010, 04:02 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce View Post
Let me know when he scores 40 goals twice. 'cause Gagne has. They both scored in the mid 30's last year.
Nice. You ask what Ryan has done that's been better than Gagne. I gave you an answer, he doubled Gagne's goal total last year. No need to get all upset and confrontational.

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07-10-2010, 04:04 PM
  #64
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Good move, that line of Perry Getzlaf Ryan is a hoot.

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07-10-2010, 04:09 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostly Clueless View Post
Nice. You ask what Ryan has done that's been better than Gagne. I gave you an answer, he doubled Gagne's goal total last year. No need to get all upset and confrontational.
Ryan has done nothing that is "better then Gagne". Outpaceing him in a single injured season, doesn't make him better.

Are we all that shortsighted that a season and a half ago is considered useless in bearing a players worth?

I obviously wasn't being upset and confrontational, just accurate.

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07-10-2010, 04:10 PM
  #66
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Good, I'm glad he's not getting traded. Anaheim drafted him 2nd overall for a reason and deserve to see him develop.

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07-10-2010, 04:13 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
pittsburg in a move of insanity offers crosby and their next 10 first round picks for ryan... but murray in his determination to squash all rumors turns the trade down


lolololol

seriously, everyone is available for the right offer. maybe what murray means to say is no one has met his asking price yet cause he isnt asking for a price.

but if the right offer gets made of course ryan becomes traded

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07-10-2010, 04:15 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar Cayce View Post
Ryan has done nothing that is "better then Gagne". Outpaceing him in a single injured season, doesn't make him better.

Are we all that shortsighted that a season and a half ago is considered useless in bearing a players worth?

I obviously wasn't being upset and confrontational, just accurate.
35 goals is a lot better than 17 no matter how clouded your mind is with anger.

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07-10-2010, 04:15 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
pittsburg in a move of insanity offers crosby and their next 10 first round picks for ryan... but murray in his determination to squash all rumors turns the trade down


lolololol

seriously, everyone is available for the right offer. maybe what murray means to say is no one has met his asking price yet cause he isnt asking for a price.

but if the right offer gets made of course ryan becomes traded
Murray has already stated that in order to get Ryan the deal would have to blow his socks off...which is the truth.

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07-10-2010, 04:18 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostly Clueless View Post
35 goals is a lot better than 17 no matter how clouded your mind is with anger.
You realize Gagne played 23 less games than Ryan, right?

I understand he wouldnt have made up the difference, but you can't compare the raw numbers and say it was "a lot better".

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07-10-2010, 04:24 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
You realize Gagne played 23 less games than Ryan, right?

I understand he wouldnt have made up the difference, but you can't compare the raw numbers and say it was "a lot better".
Do you realize missing 23 games is a bad thing? And Gagne has a habit of missing a lot of games. "On pace" doesn't add any value to a team.

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07-10-2010, 04:29 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostly Clueless View Post
Do you realize missing 23 games is a bad thing? And Gagne has a habit of missing a lot of games. "On pace" doesn't add any value to a team.
We are comparing there actual on ice ability, NOT there off ice value.

I understand Gagne wont get very much value in a trade because he is injury prone, and probably past his prime, but the discussion at hand is who is more effective on the ice.

It is an obvious conclusion that Bobby Ryan is more valuable to a GM than Simon Gagne. But if you were to put Gagne on the ice instead of Ryan, he would be just as effective.

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07-10-2010, 04:31 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karacter View Post
Bob Murray: "If somebody wants to give him an offer sheet, we have lots of space. We'll match."

Could set up a real interesting offseason next year though. With the Kings needing to sign Simmonds, Johnson, and Doughty things could get interesting.

.
Kings would match anything that the Ducks would offer for Doughty unless you're getting into the 4 1st's territory. And if the Ducks want to offer sheet Simmonds or Johnson, I'll gladly take the picks if we end up with Ryan.

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07-10-2010, 04:37 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
And right now, as players, Bobby Ryan and Simon Gagne are probably about equal. The thing that makes Bobby Ryan more valuable than Gagne are his age and contract.
Pointed out because obviously some people can't read. They continue to disagree because of his contract and age. No ****, Shafer pointed that out.

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07-10-2010, 04:42 PM
  #75
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Kings would match anything that the Ducks would offer for Doughty unless you're getting into the 4 1st's territory. And if the Ducks want to offer sheet Simmonds or Johnson, I'll gladly take the picks if we end up with Ryan.
Murray said he'd match and then go after the other teams RFA's. So Ryan would still be a Duck and you'd have to deal with higher paid guys next few offseasons. I think teams like the Kings and Avs are exactly the type of teams who shouldn't be throwing offersheets.

Basically what you're doing if you hand out offersheets is you're making your own RFA's more expensive to re-sign. The only leverage a first-time RFA has in contract negotiations is to either hold out or attract an offer sheet. If you increase the chance of that RFA attracting an offersheet by throwing them around yourself, you give him more leverage. With a competent agent, that leverage always ends up on the bottom line.

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