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Old
07-11-2010, 10:24 AM
  #26
Ozymandias
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Pee-air McGuire is doing the dancing turd again.

A few years back, Bryzgalov was said to be of golden worth on the trade market, as he had an impressive playoffs. After much speculation, he went on the waiver wire to get picked-up for peanuts.

Ever since, goalies have gone for much lower than their market value. The full and complete realization that goalies' worth on the trade market was now at an all-time low, hit when Luongo got traded for much much lower than his market value.

The return we got for Halak, is almost as good Florida had for Luongo...

Anyone saying Saint-Louis got the advantage in that trade are smoking some really good stuff... really, they did? Please bring out a list of all goalie trades in the post-lockout era, you will see just how much your bias is blinding you.

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07-11-2010, 10:31 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Pee-air McGuire is doing the dancing turd again.

A few years back, Bryzgalov was said to be of golden worth on the trade market, as he had an impressive playoffs. After much speculation, he went on the waiver wire to get picked-up for peanuts.

Ever since, goalies have gone for much lower than their market value. The full and complete realization that goalies' worth on the trade market was now at an all-time low, hit when Luongo got traded for much much lower than his market value.

The return we got for Halak, is almost as good Florida had for Luongo...

Anyone saying Saint-Louis got the advantage in that trade are smoking some really good stuff... really, they did? Please bring out a list of all goalie trades in the post-lockout era, you will see just how much your bias is blinding you.
Oh stop it, didn't you know that some 19 year old living in his parents basement knows a hell of alot more about running an organization than, let's see, a P Gauthier for example ?

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:39 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Hugh Ellerection View Post
That's because he's 4x the idiot that Pierre McGuire is.

think you're underrating Pierre a little here...

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:41 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
Exactly everyone can ***** and moan about the trade all they want but the fact of the matter is that St. Louis basically got the edge to negotiating for one of the goalies earlier in the season.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gauthier got a call from JD back in the winter that went along the lines of,

JD "Hello, Pierre we hear your going to be moving a goaltender this summer"
PG "Yes, that's correct we haven't decided which will be moved yet or what our desired return is but this will be ringing true in a few months, I take it your interested JD?"
JD "Very, as an act of good faith and possibly the first kick of the can at the end of the season at either. We'd like to do a preamble trade to show our genuine interest and would expect a gentleman's agreement where we will get an opportunity to get a hold of one of them at the end of the season"
PG "Alright, well a potential deal could revolve around one of the goalies and Matt D'Agostini, so perhaps Matt D'Agostini for a prospect now and will complete the deal with the main pieces at the end of the season"
JD " agreed"

Then the final deal become
To St.Louis
Halak
D'Agostini

To MTL
Eller
Palushaj
Schultz

Which is much more fair then people made it out to be
That's a ridiculous hypothesis. Why would PG handcuffs himself in a situation where he has only one trading partner when it's time to shop Halak, and where he HAS TO make a deal with that team, no matter what? If it's true, PG should be fired for it. It's not like Palushaj was a highly touted prospect. He's, at best, a very average prospect who has a 30-40% chance to make it to the NHL on a 3rd/4th line.

But it's nice that a few of you finally admit that "Halak for Eller+Schultz" alone was not really fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII
I am with you on that. IMO the Habs identified the potential trading partners and the parameters of what they wanted in return (a elite forward prospect who was NHL ready NOW, no salary in return) and settled on Eller. After that it was just a matter of negotiating. JD has said that Gauthier only wanted Eller and no matter how much the Blues tried to change the deal, we only wanted Eller. To me, that tells me that the other potential trading partners did not have an elite forward NHL ready prospect, preferebly a center, who we could get in return.
I'm sorry but Eller is still projected as a potential 2nd line center, and I don't think the scouts suddenly see him as an "elite" forward just because he's a Habs.

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07-11-2010, 10:43 AM
  #30
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What's concerning to me is how unwavering it seems we were in our pursuit of Eller. For us to be that high on him we must of compiled some convincing scouting reports. That's what scares me. Our piss poor scouting staff couldn't identify high-end offensive talent if it punched them in the face. This deal could be a potential disaster both hockey-wise and PR-wise.

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07-11-2010, 10:49 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
That's a ridiculous hypothesis. Why would PG handcuffs himself in a situation where he has only one trading partner when it's time to shop Halak, and where he HAS TO make a deal with that team, no matter what? If it's true, PG should be fired for it. It's not like Palushaj was a highly touted prospect. He's, at best, a very average prospect who has a 30-40% chance to make it to the NHL on a 3rd/4th line.

But it's nice that a few of you finally admit that "Halak for Eller+Schultz" alone was not really fair.



I'm sorry but Eller is still projected as a potential 2nd line center, and I don't think the scouts suddenly see him as an "elite" forward just because he's a Habs.
Palushaj was traded for D'agostini... who'll also be very lucky to become a regular NHLer...


aint about fairness, you trade for a need... we had NO ONE playing C in the org besides the ones already with the CH (Plekanec, Gomez... and huh)... yeah, Ben friggin Maxwell...

sure, Halak was great (personally would have traded Price but hey!), but if by trading him we end up with a good 2nd line C, a 4th liner (schultz) and Price playing well... we may be better as a team... wich is all that matters IMO...

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07-11-2010, 10:51 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
That's a ridiculous hypothesis. Why would PG handcuffs himself in a situation where he has only one trading partner when it's time to shop Halak, and where he HAS TO make a deal with that team, no matter what? If it's true, PG should be fired for it. It's not like Palushaj was a highly touted prospect. He's, at best, a very average prospect who has a 30-40% chance to make it to the NHL on a 3rd/4th line.

But it's nice that a few of you finally admit that "Halak for Eller+Schultz" alone was not really fair.



I'm sorry but Eller is still projected as a potential 2nd line center, and I don't think the scouts suddenly see him as an "elite" forward just because he's a Habs.
The idea of the Dago-Palusaj swap that's being thrown around here is laughable and downright pathetic.

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07-11-2010, 10:51 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
What's concerning to me is how unwavering it seems we were in our pursuit of Eller. For us to be that high on him we must of compiled some convincing scouting reports. That's what scares me. Our piss poor scouting staff couldn't identify high-end offensive talent if it punched them in the face. This deal could be a potential disaster both hockey-wise and PR-wise.
it's not like teams were ready to give that for Halak...

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:52 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
it's not like teams were ready to give that for Halak...
Apparently we weren't all that inclined to find out.

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:55 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Pee-air McGuire is doing the dancing turd again.

A few years back, Bryzgalov was said to be of golden worth on the trade market, as he had an impressive playoffs. After much speculation, he went on the waiver wire to get picked-up for peanuts.

Ever since, goalies have gone for much lower than their market value. The full and complete realization that goalies' worth on the trade market was now at an all-time low, hit when Luongo got traded for much much lower than his market value.

The return we got for Halak, is almost as good Florida had for Luongo...

Anyone saying Saint-Louis got the advantage in that trade are smoking some really good stuff... really, they did? Please bring out a list of all goalie trades in the post-lockout era, you will see just how much your bias is blinding you.
To be honest none of the goalies traded were on the same level as Halak at the time of the trades. There is nothing comparable, same as if Price was traded the return would of been pretty good as well. It would of been the first time out of all the recent goaltender trades that a 22 yr old future franchise goalie is traded.

Comparing it to Bryzgalov and other trades that aren't at all similar doesn't diminish Halaks value imo. Do you think all avenues were explored? What was the hurry? I agree with the majority of the article.

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:57 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
Apparently we weren't all that inclined to find out.
that's the keyword here.

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:57 AM
  #37
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Personally I think It's clear the move had to be made before teams could sing UFA's. But there are some lingering questions.

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07-11-2010, 10:59 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
To be honest none of the goalies traded were on the same level as Halak at the time of the trades. There is nothing comparable, same as if Price was traded the return would of been pretty good as well. It would of been the first time out of all the recent goaltender trades that a 22 yr old future franchise goalie is traded.

Comparing it to Bryzgalov and other trades that aren't at all similar doesn't diminish Halaks value imo. Do you think all avenues were explored? What was the hurry? I agree with the majority of the article.
some were seen as better than Halak, like Luongo for example...

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:59 AM
  #39
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I agree with PM on this one, they should have waited it out.

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07-11-2010, 11:04 AM
  #40
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"If Lars Eller doesn't Pan out"

"If Lars Eller doesn't become a top 6..."

What about if Halak turns out to be a fluke?

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07-11-2010, 11:05 AM
  #41
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Well, let's hope Price plays well, simple as that. Alex Auld is not going to steal his job, that's for sure. Maybe this will reassure him, take a bit of the pressure off, and he can get into a consistent groove and put a good year. It's a long process developing a goaltender and it was a huge mistake by management in not getting Price a veteran mentor of some kind instead of throwing him to the fire early in his career for a competitive club.

Eller is not that bad of a return for Halak. It's not Bertuzzi for Luongo-esque and it's pretty clear that the goalie market is soft.

That said, I know some will dismiss Halak as a goalie who hasn't played a full NHL season as a #1 and wonder if he can duplicate his success... but the guy has a good track record, battled his way to success in the minors, the Olympics, etc. I'd think he's got a good enough work ethic to be a starter for a long time.

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Old
07-11-2010, 11:06 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
"If Lars Eller doesn't Pan out"

"If Lars Eller doesn't become a top 6..."

What about if Halak turns out to be a fluke?
doubt it, but hey! none of the players involved in the trade are 15 years vet... so anything can happen.

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07-11-2010, 11:07 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Oh stop it, didn't you know that some 19 year old living in his parents basement knows a hell of alot more about running an organization than, let's see, a P Gauthier for example ?
Because it's agree or die in here, right?

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Old
07-11-2010, 11:07 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
some were seen as better than Halak, like Luongo for example...
THe Luongo trade wasn't even close to being similar. They play the same position, so what? The circumstances weren't even close. It was widely considered Luongo was not gonna sign in Florida the next season. He had already turned down a deal. Florida was in a position where they had to move him or there was a very good chance they lose him for nothing.

We didn't have to rush IMO. We held all the cards, neither of our goalies could do anything about it.


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Old
07-11-2010, 11:12 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
THe Luongo trade wasn't even close to being similar. They play the same position, so what? The circumstances weren't even close.
for Auld (ho ho!) and a guy they wanted out, they got a VERY good goalie... some would even say a franchise goalie...

and some thing Halak would have fetch more that the two kids we got ??? really...

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Old
07-11-2010, 11:14 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
"If Lars Eller doesn't Pan out"

"If Lars Eller doesn't become a top 6..."

What about if Halak turns out to be a fluke?
You are comparing oranges with apples. Halak is proven, Eller is not. "Being proven" must have more trading value than "having potential", don't you think?

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Old
07-11-2010, 11:18 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
THe Luongo trade wasn't even close to being similar. They play the same position, so what? The circumstances weren't even close. It was widely considered Luongo was not gonna sign in Florida the next season. He had already turned down a deal. Florida was in a position where they had to move him or there was a very good chance they lose him for nothing.

We didn't have to rush IMO. We held all the cards, neither of our goalies could do anything about it.
The Luongo-Bertuzzi deal is widely considered as a bad deal anyway, and as a brain cramp by Mike Keenan. Keenan had to quit his job shortly after that.

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07-11-2010, 11:22 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
for Auld (ho ho!) and a guy they wanted out, they got a VERY good goalie... some would even say a franchise goalie...

and some thing Halak would have fetch more that the two kids we got ??? really...
Do you realize they got a proven & young top 4 defenseman (Allen) and a proven power forward (Bertuzzi), and this is still considered like a steal from Vancouver?

For our own potential franchise goalie, we got... 2 unproven kids??? And according to a few fans on this board, this is supposed to be fair??

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Old
07-11-2010, 11:24 AM
  #49
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once again the sheep would rather kill the messenger than take the time to consider the message.

PM is bang on , and it looks good on the Gazette that they begin the exposure of this incompetence.

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Old
07-11-2010, 11:33 AM
  #50
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sigh..
of course we got "unproven" prospects over proven NHL regulars.. that's what PG wanted! He wanted young guys with a low cap hit for the next several years who could contribute right away and that's what he got with Lars Eller (and possibly Shultz, who knows).

It's arguable to say he could've gotten an NHL regular on a entry level contract.
Besides, getting a NHL regular with a 3M+ contract would defeat the very purpose of trading Halak (so we could create cap space and sign Pleky)

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