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Gagne to Toronto, LA or stay?

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Old
07-11-2010, 10:33 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Is this truly the case? It seemed Rynnas was sought after first by the reports in the media and then Bobrovsky was picked up? Can you provide a timeline? I'm just curious on this one. Obviously not privy to what management was thinking and maybe Bobrovsky was indeed the first choice it's just that I don't recall seeing reports that suggested it that way.
I can't provide a specific timeline, but if you look back at threads involving Bobrovsky, Rynnas, and Scrivens, there will be pieces to help you out.

Rynnas got more hype mainly because Toronto was heavily interested. A Canadian team interested in a big goaltending late-bloomer? Sound like any other goalie that recently got a lot of press?

Then of course American hockey media picks up on it. American media covering hockey isn't necessarily its own entity. They pick up most of their information/talk/hype from Canadian sources.

That said, by the time all of the hype for Rynnas had started, we were already hot on the trail of all three goalies. It was widely believed that we were the most sought after destination for any free agent goalie for obvious reasons. Needless to say, I'm fairly confident we had our pick of the litter.

By that point it was clear that our main target was Bobrovsky. I know very well that's who we scouted the heaviest though we certainly took our time looking at all three.

Bobrovsky is who we liked. We wanted him.

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07-11-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I can't provide a specific timeline, but if you look back at threads involving Bobrovsky, Rynnas, and Scrivens, there will be pieces to help you out.

Rynnas got more hype mainly because Toronto was heavily interested. A Canadian team interested in a big goaltending late-bloomer? Sound like any other goalie that recently got a lot of press?

Then of course American hockey media picks up on it. American media covering hockey isn't necessarily its own entity. They pick up most of their information/talk/hype from Canadian sources.

That said, by the time all of the hype for Rynnas had started, we were already hot on the trail of all three goalies. It was widely believed that we were the most sought after destination for any free agent goalie for obvious reasons. Needless to say, I'm fairly confident we had our pick of the litter.

By that point it was clear that our main target was Bobrovsky. I know very well that's who we scouted the heaviest though we certainly took our time looking at all three.

Bobrovsky is who we liked. We wanted him.
From all I've read Bobrovsky sounds pretty talented and the most mature. I can see how Rynnas may have been hyped given the monster comparisons. Hopefully, Bobrovsky develops quick! A full year at the AHL is likely but I'd like to see him in a few games next year at the NHL level...maybe sometime in May and April.

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07-11-2010, 10:48 AM
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A full year at the AHL is likely but I'd like to see him in a few games next year at the NHL level...maybe sometime in May and April.
I doubt Bobrovsky will play in the playoffs.
Well, unless we get hit by that injury-bug again.

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07-11-2010, 10:49 AM
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Russian Connection

As an aside..with the signing of Zherdev....what's the possibility of fast tracking Popov to possibly be his locker room "buddy"? I know Bodrov is a longshot with the defense we have now. Is this whole Russian "buddy system" overblown or really necessary? Maybe the Flyers should go after Fedotenko although doubt they have the money unless more pieces are moved?

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07-11-2010, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I doubt Bobrovsky will play in the playoffs.
Well, unless we get hit by that injury-bug again.
oops meant march and april.....yeah barring a disaster or him just being phenomenal at the AHL level, not likely he'll play on the playoffs but who knows with our history...

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07-11-2010, 11:20 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I can't provide a specific timeline, but if you look back at threads involving Bobrovsky, Rynnas, and Scrivens, there will be pieces to help you out.

Rynnas got more hype mainly because Toronto was heavily interested. A Canadian team interested in a big goaltending late-bloomer? Sound like any other goalie that recently got a lot of press?

Then of course American hockey media picks up on it. American media covering hockey isn't necessarily its own entity. They pick up most of their information/talk/hype from Canadian sources.

That said, by the time all of the hype for Rynnas had started, we were already hot on the trail of all three goalies. It was widely believed that we were the most sought after destination for any free agent goalie for obvious reasons. Needless to say, I'm fairly confident we had our pick of the litter.

By that point it was clear that our main target was Bobrovsky. I know very well that's who we scouted the heaviest though we certainly took our time looking at all three.

Bobrovsky is who we liked. We wanted him.
Leafs fan here and i don't come to troll

but... you obviously seem to know a lot about Rynnas, but my question is have you ever even seen him play? I lived in Finland for some time recently, 80 km away from Pori where he played for Assat, and seen him a lot live. That kid is the real deal. He single handedly carried this crappy team for a whole year. Honestly, it's been a long time since I have seen a goalie dominate hockey games so much. What's even more impressive he did that despite the fact that Assat has arguably the crappiest D-core in the SM-liiga.

I can tell you one thing, Rynnas alone is more valuable than Gagne, not to even mention Bobrovsky (who btw, might not ever end up in NHL).

I am 100% sure Burke would not trade Rynnas, not after all the efffort put into singing him. If anyone you can have Reimier or that Scrivens kid, but not Rynnas.

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07-11-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Eriksson > Bobrovsky > Rynnas > Reimer > Scrivens talent-wise.
http://www.thegoalieguild.com/?page_id=2525
TOP 100 goalie prospects, updated 5 July 2010

Eriksson 12
Rynnas 23
Reimer 62
Bobrovsky 63
Scrivens 72

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07-11-2010, 11:28 AM
  #33
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Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. That's all I have to say. I just want everything to get settled so we can stop talking about rumors!

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07-11-2010, 11:31 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filek View Post
http://www.thegoalieguild.com/?page_id=2525
TOP 100 goalie prospects, updated 5 July 2010

Eriksson 12
Rynnas 23
Reimer 62
Bobrovsky 63
Scrivens 72
Disagree completely.

NOTE: Their list also has Nicola Riopel at 25, which to me is a joke.

Here's what it says:
13 Eriksson, Joacim PHI 2008-196 Stayed in Sweden in order to focus on his training for his first season in the SEL.
25 Riopel, Nicola PHI 2009-142 Flyers shed Teslak and Duchesne, but he'll have to win the AHL backup role.
63 Bobrovsky, Sergei PHI undrafted Tons of hype around this kid, but he'll have to beat Riopel for an elusive AHL gig.

Riopel is not going to beat out Bobrovsky or Backlund.


Quote:
Originally Posted by filek View Post
Leafs fan here and i don't come to troll

but... you obviously seem to know a lot about Rynnas, but my question is have you ever even seen him play? I lived in Finland for some time recently, 80 km away from Pori where he played for Assat, and seen him a lot live. That kid is the real deal. He single handedly carried this crappy team for a whole year. Honestly, it's been a long time since I have seen a goalie dominate hockey games so much. What's even more impressive he did that despite the fact that Assat has arguably the crappiest D-core in the SM-liiga.

I can tell you one thing, Rynnas alone is more valuable than Gagne, not to even mention Bobrovsky (who btw, might not ever end up in NHL).

I am 100% sure Burke would not trade Rynnas, not after all the efffort put into singing him. If anyone you can have Reimier or that Scrivens kid, but not Rynnas.
I've seen quite a bit of both Bobrovsky and Rynnas now. My question to you is have you seen Bobrovsky play?


Last edited by CS: 07-11-2010 at 11:37 AM.
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07-11-2010, 11:41 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Disagree completely.
I didn't compile that list, as you probably know, it's done by a Goldman's professional goalie scouting service who himself probably knows more about goalie propsects than you, I and like 90% of this boards combined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I've seen quite a bit of both Bobrovsky and Rynnas now. My question to you is have you seen Bobrovsky play?
in all fairness: I'd say no, just at the WJC. All I know is that Rynnas is terrific and there is no way Burke's trading him, unless for real blue chip player.

ps. and I wish you all success with Bobrovsky, just leave Rynnas alone

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07-11-2010, 12:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by filek View Post
I didn't compile that list, as you probably know, it's done by a Goldman's professional goalie scouting service who himself probably knows more about goalie propsects than you, I and like 90% of this boards combined.
If he has Riopel over Bobrovsky, then there's an IMMEDIATE red flag thrown up there in my mind.

No offense to him. A good portion of his list looks very good. You just need to realize that he's not the end all, be all. I understand you think he knows more about goalie prospects than me, and admittedly if he spends enough time watching these players and compiling a master list than he probably does.

However, just like when TSN released a team defense rankings a bit ago saying that the Capitals and Penguins had the best two defenses in the NHL, there are supposedly "astute" and "flawless" sources that just make you sit back, take a look around, and drop a huge "wtf."

Some of the players on that board being where they are makes me drop a "wtf." Goldman and his professionalism can think whatever they want.

I'm not perfect. HF isn't perfect. We will try our best, and we will do the research to bring readers the very best and most accurate information we possibly can. Goldman is only human as well.

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Originally Posted by filek View Post
in all fairness: I'd say no, just at the WJC. All I know is that Rynnas is terrific and there is no way Burke's trading him, unless for real blue chip player.
Honestly, I was hoping to get both Rynnas and Bobrovsky this offseason and let Backlund go. I like Backlund, but having Rynnas back up Bobrovsky in the AHL would be awesome.

I will tell you this though. Rynnas put up poor numbers in the FNL before becoming a "late-bloomer" so to speak. He's also 23 right now coming off two strong years (one was spent in the U-20 in 2007-08, then in 2008-09 he was moved all around so his numbers aren't much of a standpoint, and in 2009-10 he put up great numbers in his first year in the SM-Liiga) and a number of subpar/mediocre years before that.

Bobrovsky is only 21, two years younger, and has been putting up a strong showing in the KHL for 3 years now (since he was 18). He's been performing as well on a worse team in a stronger league than Rynnas. He's been doing it more consistently, and he's younger so he has much more of a developmental curve available to him in NA (the longer a player stays in a non-NA league, the harder it is for him to adjust).

The thing most scouts liked about Rynnas is his size. He was hinted by a lot of the media as the second "Monster" to go to Toronto. That said, he doesn't come without his flaws. Size is pretty much the biggest, if not only reason, he's rated so highly. He comes with some solid talent, but you can't coach size.

Bobrovsky is 3" smaller but is much more athletic. He's a quicker goalie with stronger lateral movement, but again, he gives up a bit in the size department only being 6'1.

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ps. and I wish you all success with Bobrovsky, just leave Rynnas alone
Will do.

By the way, your avatar is awesome.

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07-11-2010, 12:24 PM
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Add Montreal?

I'm sure Gagne would like either of those 3 teams but what would Montreal have to offer and aren't they still cap constrained?

http://translate.google.com/translat...en-US:official

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07-11-2010, 01:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Is this truly the case? It seemed Rynnas was sought after first by the reports in the media and then Bobrovsky was picked up? Can you provide a timeline? I'm just curious on this one. Obviously not privy to what management was thinking and maybe Bobrovsky was indeed the first choice it's just that I don't recall seeing reports that suggested it that way.
Shafer's right on this one. The Flyers always wanted Bobrovsky long before they wanted Rynnas. They were only doing their due diligence with regards to Rynnas. And honestly, Rynnas only had one good season in the Finnish Leagues. Just take a look at his numbers here (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=7634) and you'll see that his numbers aren't very impressive at all. Compare those to the numbers Bobrovsky put up (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=14590) and it's clear that Bobrovsky is head and shoulders above Rynnas and it's not even close.

Bobrovsky is going to be an excellent goalie. My only concern is that he's going to play in Adirondack under the eye of Idiot Stick, but at the same time, I have to believe that Holmgren and company are going to keep a close watch on Idiot Stick because there is a lot of talent and if there's no progression, then I have to believe that they'll fire him and Paddock goes back down to being the coach in Adirondack (which is where Holmgren should have kept him anyways). I'm not sure if Jeff Reese goes down to Adirondack much to work with the goaltenders, but I think this will be a case that Reese does go frequently to see how Bobrovsky is doing.

As for the Gagne rumours, on CNNSI.com today in the Fan Nation rumours section for the NHL, apparently the New York Rangers want in on the Gagne sweepstakes and that a third team might be required to make the deal work. So, you know if the Rangers get involved, there's going to be some mass overpayments somewhere along the way (Chris Kreider anyone?)

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07-11-2010, 01:12 PM
  #39
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Broad Street Hockey posts some videos everyday of the practices, here are two of Bobrovsky if anyone cares.





Pretty standard, but cool to see.

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07-11-2010, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
These rumors are maddening...here are a couple more. Took a quick look at some threads didn't see these mentioned.....


Of course still hearing Flyers want Bernier...but doesn't sound likely to me.


We shall see soon......
If they're trading Coburn, then they don't need to trade Gagne.


Trade freaken Matt Carle already, it solves more problems.

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07-11-2010, 01:31 PM
  #41
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If they're trading Coburn, then they don't need to trade Gagne.


Trade freaken Matt Carle already, it solves more problems.
Matt Carle not going anywhere already.

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07-11-2010, 01:47 PM
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Matt Carle not going anywhere already.
im sure they would trade Pronger or Timonen before they ever consitered trading the great Matt Carle

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07-11-2010, 01:54 PM
  #43
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He stays, so does Carle, so does Coburn. Get rid of Meszaros already for someone elses 2nd or 3rd and bury Shelley in the AHL. Hell they might even be able to sign Turco out of that.

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07-11-2010, 01:59 PM
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Hey guys,

Just saw someone link to our Top-100 Rankings and wanted to clarify a few things.

The ranking is a list of the Top-100 Prospects for fantasy keeper leagues, so it's not a straight-up ranking of talent. And it's not based on any kind of statistical scale, so please keep that in mind. The Ranking is merely a superfluous chart of who we feel is best suited to be a long-term goaltender for fantasy keeper leagues.

So a main reason why you'll see Riopel ranked higher than his skill may predicate is due to the fact he's no longer junior eligible and will either start in the AHL or ECHL. A lot of that depends on where Bobrovsky ends up.

We have very little video and insight on Bobrovsky because, well, we don't live in Russia. From our perspective, he's a highly skilled kid that doesn't have a lot of size, but still very talented and with a pretty active stance/style. One thing we have noticed about him is that his style has a lot of aspects of the Finnish style...case in point the active glove hand. It's held very far out in front of him and he catches in the more modern way, with the fingers pointing up and the hand out in front of him.

Bobrovsky is now on a much better path to turning into a long-term fantasy keeper, so expect him to rise in our rankings as months go along. Good move by the Flyers to pick him up.

Just wanted to clarify that our Top-100 ranking is FANTASY based, not based on just skill alone. And we don't have any kind of mathmatical formula for the rankings ... it is sheerly a guide that is updated in the first few days of every month. Goalies go up and down pretty drastically at times, depending on how they perform and where they head within the organization they play for. Bobrovsky wasn't even on the list three months ago...but now that he's signed with an NHL club and raising eyebrows, he should now be on the radar for fantasy managers looking for long-term keeper goalies.

By no means should our list be considered "the" ultimate guide, but for fantasy managers, it's a very solid representation of the best long-term keepers out there!! If you want to learn more about the Rankings you can check out the thread in my School of Block forums on Dobber Hockey.

http://www.dobberhockey.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=55204

Cheers everyone!!

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07-11-2010, 02:03 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MegaShark 666 View Post
He stays, so does Carle, so does Coburn. Get rid of Meszaros already for someone elses 2nd or 3rd and bury Shelley in the AHL. Hell they might even be able to sign Turco out of that.
Yes, get Meszaros, the person we just acquired, makes total sense.

If we get rid of him, what the hell was the point in trading for him, not that there really was to begin with but, yea

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07-11-2010, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalieGuild View Post
Hey guys,

Just saw someone link to our Top-100 Rankings and wanted to clarify a few things.

The ranking is a list of the Top-100 Prospects for fantasy keeper leagues, so it's not a straight-up ranking of talent. And it's not based on any kind of statistical scale, so please keep that in mind. The Ranking is merely a superfluous chart of who we feel is best suited to be a long-term goaltender for fantasy keeper leagues.

So a main reason why you'll see Riopel ranked higher than his skill may predicate is due to the fact he's no longer junior eligible and will either start in the AHL or ECHL. A lot of that depends on where Bobrovsky ends up.

We have very little video and insight on Bobrovsky because, well, we don't live in Russia. From our perspective, he's a highly skilled kid that doesn't have a lot of size, but still very talented and with a pretty active stance/style. One thing we have noticed about him is that his style has a lot of aspects of the Finnish style...case in point the active glove hand. It's held very far out in front of him and he catches in the more modern way, with the fingers pointing up and the hand out in front of him.

Bobrovsky is now on a much better path to turning into a long-term fantasy keeper, so expect him to rise in our rankings as months go along. Good move by the Flyers to pick him up.

Just wanted to clarify that our Top-100 ranking is FANTASY based, not based on just skill alone. And we don't have any kind of mathmatical formula for the rankings ... it is sheerly a guide that is updated in the first few days of every month. Goalies go up and down pretty drastically at times, depending on how they perform and where they head within the organization they play for. Bobrovsky wasn't even on the list three months ago...but now that he's signed with an NHL club and raising eyebrows, he should now be on the radar for fantasy managers looking for long-term keeper goalies.

By no means should our list be considered "the" ultimate guide, but for fantasy managers, it's a very solid representation of the best long-term keepers out there!! If you want to learn more about the Rankings you can check out the thread in my School of Block forums on Dobber Hockey.

http://www.dobberhockey.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=55204

Cheers everyone!!
Understandable.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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07-11-2010, 02:15 PM
  #47
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im sure they would trade Pronger or Timonen before they ever consitered trading the great Matt Carle
I wouldn't advise of trading any of our D (yes sarcasm noted). Our Corps is very strong, and needs to be with who we presumably are going with in goal.

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07-11-2010, 02:39 PM
  #48
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Yes, get Meszaros, the person we just acquired, makes total sense.

If we get rid of him, what the hell was the point in trading for him, not that there really was to begin with but, yea
Guy isn't worth the 4mil. If someone would take him for a 2nd or 3rd big deal. Flyers don't need him as 5th defensemen. You don't trade for these kind of deals in July. This is more a deadline deal. Thats 4mil in cap saved on the defense, brings them back under, keep Gagne, resign Powe/Carcillo. Move Leighton or Boucher and sign Turco. Its almost too easy.

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07-11-2010, 02:43 PM
  #49
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Guy isn't worth the 4mil. If someone would take him for a 2nd or 3rd big deal. Flyers don't need him as 5th defensemen. You don't trade for these kind of deals in July. This is more a deadline deal. Thats 4mil in cap saved on the defense, brings them back under, keep Gagne, resign Powe/Carcillo. Move Leighton or Boucher and sign Turco. Its almost too easy.
5th defender? Debatable.

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07-11-2010, 02:57 PM
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5th defender? Debatable.
Ok, ill go with debatable.

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