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Gazette - Questions Linger about Halak Trade

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Old
07-11-2010, 05:57 PM
  #101
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Nidema View Post
I vaguely remember him saying he played goalie or was a goalie coach. That was his reason for justifying the criticisms he heaped on Price. Might be him but my memory is far from perfect.
Hey, welcome back. Trust the family issues have been taken care of since you're back. Yes, it was I who said I was a goalie until peewee, a defenseman from then until the end of midget, and a coach (not specifically goaltending) in Japan for the past 5 years. Don't know where he ever saw me post anything to the contrary, but I'd love to see that post.

And now, to address Major Failure... or is it General Circles yet?

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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
After saying that you never played hockey, you would now have us believed you played Midget AAA?
I wouldn't have anyone believe anything. I've said numerous times that I've played the game before, and mentioned a few times at what levels, and people can believe what they want from there.

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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
I played Midget AAA...what team were you playing for because around here, the Midget AAA is not a school associated team! AA can be but AAA is not. Given that you have demonstrated your tendencies for dishonnesty before, one can only believe that this one is a fib as well)
I don't know about now, but in the early/mid 90s around here (Halifax), there was midget AAA (Dartmouth Subways, Halifax McDonalds, etc), metro AAA (high school, CPA, my school, for example), and midget AA was the highest organized minor league after that (which I played WHILE a member of the high school team because I probably wouldn't have made the Subways or Macs, nor could I have juggled their schedule AND play high school in the same season... which wasn't a concern playing just high school).


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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
As for you having a clue, well, we proved last week that you did not understand a single thing beyond reading the stats (which makes your new declaration about having experience even more unbelievable - notwithstanding the fact that you said the opposite before). Given the amount of time we have found you to be dishonest and lying on these boards, I suspect this to be another “twist” in your "forked tongue".
We? Who is we? I see you saying a lot of stuff, but proving very little (besides your penchant for hyperbole, fabrication, and difficulty keeping track of multiple lines of discussion when they don't face in the direction you're hoping to go).

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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
As for the pressure Halak is under, you’re the one that twisted it around (again, since you have no honour nor honesty, it is far from a surprised). As I said, Halak is under pressure and your statement that his teammates and the fans in St-Louis will not bear pressure on him is far from reality and the statement of one who does not understand hockey from the inside.
Not what I said at all. If you're going to paraphrase, get a stronger hold on the English language first.

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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
The St-Louis players were satisfied by the play of Mason (as many have stated publically). Bringing in a new goalie will force that goalie to “make his place” in that team (again, if you had played competitive hockey, you would know that – it’s a reality at any level).
Wow. Ground breaking and fearsome stuff. I can totally see how you would expect that to adversely affect Halak, who has (like every player at every level) dealt with that kind of scenario numerous times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
As for the fan, given the price that was paid to get Halak (from their viewpoint), they will expect a return on their investment....and again, even if you tried to belittled the St. Louis fan, they know hockey far more than some who claims to know hockey but make all the wrong assumptions when it comes to team/personalities dynamics on a team.
Yes, belittle the St.Louis fan... I believe that's EXACTLY how all of this can be construed. And wait, what? St.Louis wants a return on their investment? How could they possibly?? Again, I shall deploy the I certainly don't see how Halak can be going to a situation not only more rife with pressure than Montreal was, but so rife that the guy who seems to be cool as a cucumber under the pressure in Montreal is likely to crack under what meets him in St.Louis. If your arguing with me is meant to suggest that you believe the exact opposite, then fine, it's your opinion and you can have it. And (re: the "price St.Louis paid") if you think that St.Louis fans would have been happier giving up one of Oshie, Backes, Pietrangelo, etc instead of Eller (who is supposedly seen as a better prospect than any of them except perhaps Pietrangelo), then you're welcome to that opinion, too. I doubt it, but I certainly haven't polled enough St.Louis fans to be anything close to sure. In the end, though, I've been commenting from a management standpoint for the most part because it is they, not the fans, who finalize transactions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
As someone eloquently told you last week, you are full of words but empty of any real meaning.
If that someone was supposedly you, I submit that it was likely neither a) eloquent, nor b) able to prove anything to anyone.


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Old
07-11-2010, 06:07 PM
  #102
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It feels like Astrix has some multiple accounts right now.

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Old
07-11-2010, 06:10 PM
  #103
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It's summer, the Gazette needs to sell newspapers.

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07-11-2010, 06:19 PM
  #104
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I don't see the problem. The Habs had a surplus of goaltending and were lacking a young centreman and size. They got both in Eller and Schultz. Maybe they could have found an extra pick if they waited or maybe these teams go a different direction. So you are offered exactly what the organization needs, why wouldn't you take it?

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07-11-2010, 06:23 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I don't see the problem. The Habs had a surplus of goaltending and were lacking a young centreman and size. They got both in Eller and Schultz. Maybe they could have found an extra pick if they waited or maybe these teams go a different direction. So you are offered exactly what the organization needs, why wouldn't you take it?
I support the trade. Those who oppose it will say that you traded a proven commodity for potential that will not necessarily be reached.

I like the trade because Gauthier identified that depth wins you games and that the more depth you have, the less you need to rely on one player, in this case for montreal that player was the goaltender.

If Eller pans out(which there is a very, very good chance of happening) we will have three strong two-way centers in Eller, Plekanec and Gomez. Also, Eller brings in a very unique dimension to our center position which makes the trade that more interesting coupled with his low cap hit.

Montreal traded from a position of strength to fill up a need. That need was cheap depth at the center position and we got it.

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07-11-2010, 06:44 PM
  #106
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The Gazette is officially bush.

Giguere - He actually lead his team to the cup finals and helped force a game 7. He later won without playing as an important role. Was later traded for Jason ****in' Blake.

Cam Ward - A rookie out of nowhere lead his team to the cup. Now, he tends to struggle.

Dwayne Roloson - Lead his team to the finals before being hurt where his team lost in 7. He now battles for a starting position with the Islanders

Ray Emery - Helped lead his team to the finals, he's now a fringe 1a goalie, or a backup.

Miikka Kiprusoff is one of few goalies who lead his team to the finals and hasn't sucked, but his team has.

Halak helped us beat Washington and Pittsburgh, but you know what the two main concerns were for their team ? Offense from others and goaltending.Montréal got goaltending and offense from others besides their star players.

Philadelphia's concern was goaltending, but they had excellent defense, and offense and we all saw how Halak and the rest of the habs played there.

If you're going to write an article to complain and you get paid for it, at least make it a viable complaint. Gazette's editing staff, writers, ****in' interns are all dumb as ****.

Montréal media is by far the worst in the sport of hockey.

MAG, Mathias Brunet, a few others, you are good ones, keep up the work. Maybe your retarded counterparts will catch on.


Last edited by Analyzer: 07-11-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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Old
07-11-2010, 06:50 PM
  #107
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Price LA bound?

http://cornwallfreenews.com/2010/07/...0-cornwall-on/

I don't think its reliable but if that would happen I would like Molson to fire Gauthier on the spot.

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07-11-2010, 06:59 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Habs514 View Post
Price LA bound?

http://cornwallfreenews.com/2010/07/...0-cornwall-on/

I don't think its reliable but if that would happen I would like Molson to fire Gauthier on the spot.
I just read that...if there is any truth to this....

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07-11-2010, 07:01 PM
  #109
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First off I'm going to point out that my analysis is based on a few factors.

#1) The goalie market was weak to begin with, made even worse by the Philly/Chi final.

#2) Just like with Roy, there was zero chance Halak was going to be moved to a team in the east. 14 teams eliminated.

#3) How many teams in the west actually needed a goalie and could afford to pay him 3-4 mill a season. 10-11 more teams eliminated, leaving the Blues, Stars, Sharks and possibly the Wild.

#4) With the Habs cap situation and blueline depth, we can reasonably assume that PG was looking for at least one top level forward prospect that will be locked up for a while and avoid a lot of salary coming back.

*Sharks were still trying to re-sign Nabby anyway and their only real forward prospect is Couture who still needs to work on his skating and balance, is not close to being ready for the NHL yet. Eliminated.
*Stars with Turco leaving might of given a sniff but they aren't exactly hurting either. Plus they are rebuilding and getting them to deal one of their top prospects, namely Glennie, would of been unlikely. Eliminated.
*Wild also aren't exactly hurting in the goalie department and are pretty weak in the forward prospect department. Eliminated.
*That leaves the Blues, who not only desperately needed a goalie but were rich in prospects.

So not only were we able to grab a top forward prospect, he is a big, skilled, smooth skating center that is pretty much NHL ready to boot and we got a pretty good character forward on top of it to boot.


By all means, find a better deal in the west, good luck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs514 View Post
Price LA bound?

http://cornwallfreenews.com/2010/07/...0-cornwall-on/

I don't think its reliable but if that would happen I would like Molson to fire Gauthier on the spot.
Wow.....that would just be....stupid.


Last edited by Rhiessan71: 07-11-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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Old
07-11-2010, 07:30 PM
  #110
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I wouldn't have anyone believe anything. I've said numerous times that I've played the game before, and mentioned a few times at what levels, and people can believe what they want from there.

I don't know about now, but in the early/mid 90s around here (Halifax), there was midget AAA (Dartmouth Subways, Halifax McDonalds, etc), metro AAA (high school, CPA, my school, for example), and midget AA was the highest organized minor league after that (which I played WHILE a member of the high school team because I probably wouldn't have made the Subways or Macs, nor could I have juggled their schedule AND play high school in the same season... which wasn't a concern playing just high school).

We? Who is we? I see you saying a lot of stuff, but proving very little (besides your penchant for hyperbole, fabrication, and difficulty keeping track of multiple lines of discussion when they don't face in the direction you're hoping to go).

Not what I said at all. If you're going to paraphrase, get a stronger hold on the English language first.

Wow. Ground breaking and fearsome stuff. I can totally see how you would expect that to adversely affect Halak, who has (like every player at every level) dealt with that kind of scenario numerous times.

Yes, belittle the St.Louis fan... I believe that's EXACTLY how all of this can be construed. And wait, what? St.Louis wants a return on their investment? How could they possibly?? Again, I shall deploy the I certainly don't see how Halak can be going to a situation not only more rife with pressure than Montreal was, but so rife that the guy who seems to be cool as a cucumber under the pressure in Montreal is likely to crack under what meets him in St.Louis. If your arguing with me is meant to suggest that you believe the exact opposite, then fine, it's your opinion and you can have it. And (re: the "price St.Louis paid") if you think that St.Louis fans would have been happier giving up one of Oshie, Backes, Pietrangelo, etc instead of Eller (who is supposedly seen as a better prospect than any of them except perhaps Pietrangelo), then you're welcome to that opinion, too. I doubt it, but I certainly haven't polled enough St.Louis fans to be anything close to sure. In the end, though, I've been commenting from a management standpoint for the most part because it is they, not the fans, who finalize transactions.

If that someone was supposedly you, I submit that it was likely neither a) eloquent, nor b) able to prove anything to anyone.
Wow, all that space to discuss with me. Must be some kind of infatuation you have. Yet, with all those words, nothing concrete came out whatsoever. It is just a bunch of gibberish as always. You went to high-school in the 90’s? That does explain a lot, the Nintendo generation, which explains your continuous and faulty attempts at explaining everything about hockey using statistics you read on the net. As you were told last week (and not by me, no matter how you try to minimize how many folks here find you to be full of crapola), so many words, so little substance…..full of hot air. (Still laughing at this high school AAA stuff.....as if! - In Canada, Midget AAA is not played in school but by regions - You would know that if you actually had played AAA level)

Let me know when you have value added to offer….

This one is priceless:

If your arguing with me is meant to suggest that you believe the exact opposite, then fine, it's your opinion and you can have it. And (re: the "price St.Louis paid") if you think that St.Louis fans would have been happier giving up one of Oshie, Backes, Pietrangelo, etc instead of Eller (who is supposedly seen as a better prospect than any of them except perhaps Pietrangelo), then you're welcome to that opinion, too. I doubt it, but I certainly haven't polled enough St.Louis fans to be anything close to sure. In the end, though, I've been commenting from a management standpoint for the most part because it is they, not the fans, who finalize transactions.


Who said anything about Piegrangelo, Backes or Oshie? My god man, you make that crapola as quickly as you breadth. Stop putting words in peoples mouth (or text in this case), that is why so many are tired of your crap on here......TRY HONNEST discussions for a change, maybe you will like it.....


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07-11-2010, 07:36 PM
  #111
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Wow.....that would just be....stupid.
If by a certain russian they mean AK, and the goalie is Bernier, and by waiting on a few other chips they mean us getting Gagné.

Then it would be

Bernier + Gagné

vs

Price + AK

LA has the room to get AK who would be a replacement for Frolov. They'd also get a slightly more experienced goalie than Bernier to go along with Quick.

Philly can unload Gagné to us for whatever without taking salary back.

And we upgrade from AK to Gagné, while trading Price for Bernier. I am not sure what the goal would be behind trading Price for Bernier, but it could be because Bernier would cost less and they like Bernier more.

But yeah that's far fetched at best. But if it were to happen, I'd like that deal from a Mtl standpoint.

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07-11-2010, 07:40 PM
  #112
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I just read that...if there is any truth to this....
The link has Cornwall and free in it. How reliable can it be ?

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07-11-2010, 07:42 PM
  #113
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The link has Cornwall and free in it. How reliable can it be ?
lol......must be from the island!

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07-11-2010, 07:44 PM
  #114
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If by a certain russian they mean AK, and the goalie is Bernier, and by waiting on a few other chips they mean us getting Gagné.

Then it would be

Bernier + Gagné

vs

Price + AK

LA has the room to get AK who would be a replacement for Frolov. They'd also get a slightly more experienced goalie than Bernier to go along with Quick.

Philly can unload Gagné to us for whatever without taking salary back.

And we upgrade from AK to Gagné, while trading Price for Bernier. I am not sure what the goal would be behind trading Price for Bernier, but it could be because Bernier would cost less and they like Bernier more.

But yeah that's far fetched at best. But if it were to happen, I'd like that deal from a Mtl standpoint.
Hmmm...I do not share your enthousiasm. Althought I love Simon Gagné, he is one concussion away from retirement.....and Bernier has not played in the NHL much and that would leave us with Auld and a golie with just a few NHL game experience.....from that angle, I am not too hot on this deal....

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07-11-2010, 07:57 PM
  #115
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Hmmm...I do not share your enthousiasm. Althought I love Simon Gagné, he is one concussion away from retirement.....and Bernier has not played in the NHL much and that would leave us with Auld and a golie with just a few NHL game experience.....from that angle, I am not too hot on this deal....
Gagné is not one concussion away from retirement. He's only had one concussion 2 years ago AFAIK. But he is injury prone. That said, I'd rather gamble on Gagné staying healthy than AK getting consistent either way.

As for Bernier vs Price. Price is only one year older than Bernier. So in terms of age, it's a wash. That said, it's true that Price has more experience but at the same time, he has spent a lot of that experience being a back up or struggling as #1 while Bernier has been brought along more carefully and has been able to build up his confidence. Also, I don't feel a Price-Auld duo is much safer than a Bernier-Auld duo.

That said, this rumor is most likely BS and I doubt this ever happens.

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07-11-2010, 08:04 PM
  #116
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Habs organization was and still is badly managed for years. Not bad enough to get a lottery pick but good enough to borderline make the playoffs year after year. Do not be blind with the last playoffs success, the Habs did not play well in most of the games.

Getting outshot most of the games like 2 for 1 is not the recipe to win the Stanley Cup (unless you have a hot goalie). The time in our zone compared to the time in their zone was very bad too.

And now Gauthier is thinking wrong if he is happy with the team right now... remember we lost to the Leafs in the last game to get the last spot in the playoffs...
I think you're being too critical. Half the teams in the NHL don't make the playoffs at all, and teams like Tampa Bay and Carolina, which won the Cup in recent years, were run into the ground. So were Cup finalists Senators and Panthers. Buffalo never gets anywhere. Neither do the Rangers, Islanders, Leafs, or Thrashers. The Habs never get high draft picks. What do you expect?

As for being outplayed, remember that the Habs played and beat two teams that were way ahead of them in the East, the Caps by an amazing 33 points. If the Habs were capable of consistently playing at the same level as the Caps, they, not the Sabres, would have clinched their division.

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07-11-2010, 08:04 PM
  #117
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The Gazette is officially bush.

Giguere - He actually lead his team to the cup finals and helped force a game 7. He later won a Cup without being relied on as much. Was later traded for Jason ****in' Blake due to non-hockey related problems.

Cam Ward - A rookie out of nowhere lead his team to the cup. Now, he backstops a struggling team.

Dwayne Roloson - Lead his team to the finals before being hurt where his team lost in 7. He now battles for a starting position with the Islanders at the age of 39.

Ray Emery - The best line in hockey at the time lead his team to the finals, he's now a fringe 1a goalie, or a backup.
You missed a few important points in your crappy comparisons.

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07-11-2010, 08:13 PM
  #118
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You missed a few important points in your crappy comparisons.
At first, Giguere wasn't going to be traded because he wouldn't waive his NTC because of his son's condition and Anaheim, or an area close to it had the best doctors for it. He was then no longer needed with Anaheim because Hiller took his job and no one wants a backup making that much money.

Just last year, Carolina made the playoffs and made it to the conference finals, same as us. Their team also has a star, we don't. Cam Ward is a great goalie... once he reaches the playoffs.

Age of 39, or not, he still went from "king" of the hockey world to where he is now, though age related, I'll give you this one.

Marc-Andre Fleury - He played pretty well, but during this season and playoffs he didn't play too hot. Fatigue could be a factor, or he's not that good ?

Tim Thomas was a stingy goalie last year, got himself rewarded and now lost his job too. He got the Bruins to 1 goal from advancing to the ECF, now he's a backup who could be on his way out too.

Best one line team in hockey. Whenever they're not on the ice, you still need a goalie to make saves and Emery did that. He was just as important to the sens success that year as was the big 3. Why else do you think he was rewarded handsomely ?

How many goalies go on a magical run, then end up being solid afterwards ? Miller and Lundqvist are arguably the two best goalies in the league now. Throw Luongo in too, how many of them have been to the 3rd round ?

Halak should be a very good goalie. Though, we'll see if he's actually as good as he proved in the first two rounds, or if he's a 1A goalie.

Philadelphia and Chicago proved it's more about having a better all-around team than having great goaltending.

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07-11-2010, 08:30 PM
  #119
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Philadelphia and Chicago proved it's more about having a better all-around team than having great goaltending.
Yeah right, Chicago proved you can have a really good team when you have 3 all stars playing on rookie contracts.

Philly had a good team, but they had an easy run vs. NJD (great match up), Boston (devestated by injuries), then their goaltending punched above it's weight when they needed it vs. Montreal, Leighton posted THREE shutouts.

Vs. the Hawks he came back down to earth and he cost them the series with his crappy play, so I don't think either team is a good example.

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07-11-2010, 08:33 PM
  #120
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Gagné is not one concussion away from retirement. He's only had one concussion 2 years ago AFAIK. But he is injury prone. That said, I'd rather gamble on Gagné staying healthy than AK getting consistent either way.

As for Bernier vs Price. Price is only one year older than Bernier. So in terms of age, it's a wash. That said, it's true that Price has more experience but at the same time, he has spent a lot of that experience being a back up or struggling as #1 while Bernier has been brought along more carefully and has been able to build up his confidence. Also, I don't feel a Price-Auld duo is much safer than a Bernier-Auld duo.

That said, this rumor is most likely BS and I doubt this ever happens.
I stand corrected (althought I never said a number, I could have been interpreted as me saying he had more than one)......as per below....but a severe concussion is serious business and one more can mean the end for Simon....



Although it was believed Gagné had suffered three concussions in five months, he was told by doctors that he only had one and further injuries re-aggravated the symptoms. He suffered the initial concussion on October 25, 2007, when he was hit in the jaw with a check from Florida Panthers defenceman Jay Bouwmeester. Gagné sat out four games and returned only to be hurt again on November 7. After missing the next 26 games, he was re-injured on his first shift back on February 10, 2008 against the Pittsburgh Penguins.[3] Gagné follows after several previous Flyers player who have suffered serious concussions. Former captain Keith Primeau had his career ended prematurely due to concussions suffered while playing in Philadelphia, while Jeremy Roenick nearly retired after suffering one himself. (they could have added Eric Lindros to that list)


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07-11-2010, 08:48 PM
  #121
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Yeah right, Chicago proved you can have a really good team when you have 3 all stars playing on rookie contracts.

Philly had a good team, but they had an easy run vs. NJD (great match up), Boston (devestated by injuries), then their goaltending punched above it's weight when they needed it vs. Montreal, Leighton posted THREE shutouts.

Vs. the Hawks he came back down to earth and he cost them the series with his crappy play, so I don't think either team is a good example.
Most of your points are agreeable but saying that Kane and Toews are on rookie contracts at 6.3 mill a season each is just a sliiiight stretch and I'm not even sure who the third is.

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07-11-2010, 08:50 PM
  #122
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At first, Giguere wasn't going to be traded because he wouldn't waive his NTC because of his son's condition and Anaheim, or an area close to it had the best doctors for it. He was then no longer needed with Anaheim because Hiller took his job and no one wants a backup making that much money.
Giguere had off-ice issues which affected his on ice play giving Hiller the perfect opportunity to shine. Not surprisingly money was a huge factor in moving him out.

He may not be getting younger, but if you can get a Conn Smythe and Stanley Cup winning goalie for Vesa Toskala and Jason Blake, that's a major good deal.

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Just last year, Carolina made the playoffs and made it to the conference finals, same as us. Their team also has a star, we don't. Cam Ward is a great goalie... once he reaches the playoffs.
Agree with this, he turns on his beast mode in the playoffs. But despite injury and a pitiful display by the team during the first half, Cam Ward was much better than most give him credit for. Ever since that Cup, he's upped his wins from 19, 30, 37 up to 39, his SV% has gone up and so has his GAA. I'm sure he'll bounce back.

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Marc-Andre Fleury - He played pretty well, but during this season and playoffs he didn't play too hot. Fatigue could be a factor, or he's not that good ?
A bit of both, he is not an elite goalie but he has played quite a bit of hockey over the past few years. He's still young (25-26) so hopefully he'll learn from his less than desirable performance against the Habs.

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Tim Thomas was a stingy goalie last year, got himself rewarded and now lost his job too. He got the Bruins to 1 goal from advancing to the ECF, now he's a backup who could be on his way out too.
Thomas is being pushed aside from a much cheaper alternative in super rookie Tuuka Rask. Much like Giguere, Boston is caught after giving him a raise and are going to go with Rask. Thomas may not have had a Vezina type year, but his win/loss record and GAA can be attributed to the poor team in front of him (Similar to Price last year)

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Best one line team in hockey. Whenever they're not on the ice, you still need a goalie to make saves and Emery did that. He was just as important to the sens success that year as was the big 3. Why else do you think he was rewarded handsomely ?
Emery was a decent goalie, but it's too hard to hell. He basically ruined his career and there's no way of know how he could have turned out.

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Halak should be a very good goalie. Though, we'll see if he's actually as good as he proved in the first two rounds, or if he's a 1A goalie.
I think he could, maybe not constantly like in the playoffs, but he does have a knack for going about his business despite what everybody says about him.

People should chill out about the trade, but at the same time we played to induction thinking he could just be another fluke.

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07-11-2010, 08:51 PM
  #123
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Most of your points are agreeable but saying that Kane and Toews are on rookie contracts at 6.3 mill a season each is just a sliiiight stretch and I'm not even sure who the third is.
Pretty sure he is referring to the massive raises to Kane, Toews and Keith only going into effect next season.

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07-11-2010, 08:51 PM
  #124
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Most of your points are agreeable but saying that Kane and Toews are on rookie contracts at 6.3 mill a season each is just a sliiiight stretch and I'm not even sure who the third is.
Last year Kane & Toews were on ELCs (850k cap hit and max bonuses deferred to 2010-2011), Keith was being paid 1.5m.

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07-11-2010, 08:54 PM
  #125
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Most of your points are agreeable but saying that Kane and Toews are on rookie contracts at 6.3 mill a season each is just a sliiiight stretch and I'm not even sure who the third is.
Niemi?

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