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Old
07-11-2010, 09:55 PM
  #101
LyNX27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
These are the lines I'd love to see this year:

FORWARDS

Brandon Dubinsky ($1.850m) / Erik Christensen ($0.925m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Vaclav Prospal ($2.100m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m)
Sean Avery ($1.938m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.300m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m) / Brian Boyle ($0.525m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Dane Byers ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Michal Rozsival ($5.000m) / * Marc Staal ($3.800m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / * Ryan McDonagh ($0.875m)
* Daniel Girardi ($2.750m) / Matt Gilroy ($1.750m)
Pavel Valentenko ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS

Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)
Made a few modifications assuming we stay with current roster, drop Redden and do nothing with the salary we have left over (not realistic)...


FORWARDS

Brandon Dubinsky ($1.850m) / Erik Christensen ($0.925m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Vaclav Prospal ($2.100m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.300m)
Sean Avery ($1.938m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m)
Dane Byers ($0.500m) / Brian Boyle ($0.525m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)

DEFENSEMEN

Michal Rozsival ($5.000m) / * Marc Staal ($3.800m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / * Ryan McDonagh ($0.875m)
* Daniel Girardi ($2.750m) / Matt Gilroy ($1.750m)
Pavel Valentenko ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS

Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

Regardless the real part that is messing with everyones lines is MZA... If MZA isn't the 2nd line winger we are looking for, our line suddenly looks a LOT weaker (I know, hard to imagine)

MZA would be sent to AHL and with out it being UFA season I imagine Kovalchuk and Frolov will be off the market and we will ice a pretty pathetic squad with a lot of left over salary space.

I really like the idea of Prospal and Anisimov on a line together because neither of them 100 percent fit the "playmaker"/"scorer" mold so In that way neither is the go to guy on the line and Anisimov can work on both parts of his offense.

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Old
07-12-2010, 08:18 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by twatson94 View Post
The only reason that I want to see the Rangers epicly fail is so that Dolan can realize that there are many things wrong with this team and it does not deserve to compete for a playoff spot. Maybe this will lead to the firing of Sather. Maybe Dolan will actually start to care about this team once he sees that he won't make the maximum amount of revenue he can make. I don't know. I can only hope for the day where Dolan is not our owner and Sather is not our GM because I believe that neither the Rangers, nor the Knicks for that matter, will win a championship as long as Dolan is the owner. This is only my opinion.
Never understood this mentality of wanting the team to fail so that then x, y and z could happen.

Since you're spending your time wishing or wanting for something to happen, why not just spend that time wishing or wanting the team to succeed?

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07-13-2010, 02:57 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
Never understood this mentality of wanting the team to fail so that then x, y and z could happen.

Since you're spending your time wishing or wanting for something to happen, why not just spend that time wishing or wanting the team to succeed?

If you define success as being mediocre and fighting for the 8th playoff spot, then props to you. I would rather be ridiculously good or ridiculously bad than mediocre. Both have their advantages. OTOH, mediocrity breeds mediocrity.

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07-13-2010, 03:09 PM
  #104
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I can see us fighting for the top draft pick this year. What convinces me of this is that Slats did not go after anyone important in the FA market that could cake a difference. There were players on the blue line that could have made a marked improvement on our blue line, especially since Slats decided not to find suitable players to increase our scoring. That logically step to improve; would have meant to shore up our D and protect one of our top players -Henrik. Since neither offense or defense were added, its only logical we are shooting for picks.

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07-13-2010, 03:35 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by twatson94 View Post
If you define success as being mediocre and fighting for the 8th playoff spot, then props to you. I would rather be ridiculously good or ridiculously bad than mediocre. Both have their advantages. OTOH, mediocrity breeds mediocrity.
I wouldn't mind a devastatingly bad season, but it's not because I think Dolan will fire Sather. I think last season proved, once and for all, that Sather will have a chair at the management table for as long as he cares to. (We can only hope he commits a crime.)

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07-13-2010, 03:38 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
I can see us fighting for the top draft pick this year ... Since neither offense or defense were added, its only logical we are shooting for picks.
IMO the team is counting on further development from its youth in order to improve on last season. I think if it was genuinely shooting for a high draft pick, Prospal would not have been brought back and Biron would not have been signed.

On the thread topic, I'd say we essentially repeat last year's performance. We possibly make the playoffs as a 7-8 seed.

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07-13-2010, 09:55 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I think another glaring key will be health. I havent checked this stat, but im sure everyone will agree with me. They have had one of the lowest if not THE lowest manpower lost in games over the past half decade or more. They have been MORE than lucky with the lack of injuries. One of these years (god forbid) the injury bug will bite its just the law of averages. The Rangers have compiled all of this suckage with full squads and they still havent done anything to write home about.
I have thought this so many times you have no idea. I don't know if most Rangers fans realize how lucky this team has been for years and years as far as injuries go. It really worries me maybe because I follow the Islanders too and the amount of injuries they have had compared to the Rangers is night and day.

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07-13-2010, 10:16 PM
  #108
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i'll save my final verdict until i know the roster in Sept. but the only real improvement is getting Hank and an actual NHL-caliber back up that can win some games and give him some rest.

We're counting on a 5ft player with no NHL exp. to come in and get top six minutes? That's a long shot. I mean i know the kid has skills, and i want him to do well, but i'm not getting my hopes up.

Outside of Gabs we have nothing but a few 2b liners and 3rd liners.
Hank will continue to get burned out scraping to win one goal games the majority of nights. Unless some rookies make a smash and some current players make some strides we'll barely make the playoffs again. What are we accomplishing by icing a team that will most likely miss the playoffs again? Another 10th overall?

I'm sorry i reserve the right to be skeptical here but I'm not buying this half @$$ rebuild. I hope i'm proven wrong but this "youth movement" may be nothing but a ruse constructed to keep Torts and Sather employed for a few more years in NY.

Kovalchuk or not, at the very least they should waive that bum Redden to attempt to improve the team going forward. Paying him 6.5m to put up 15p as a 6th defenseman is an insult to ranger fans.

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Old
07-13-2010, 11:34 PM
  #109
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I just don't see Artem as the 2nd line center this year. I think he would look great sandwiched between agitator Avery and plugger Callahan on the 3rd line.

Artem just doesn't have the ice sense as proven last year when he was caught with head down on more than one occasion. I think expecting an improvement from 4th line to 3rd line is more reasonable, rather than putting on a scoring line and expecting results. Remember the kid still doesn't speak a heap of English.

Even if you don't like Drury's contract and his season last year he can play 2nd line minutes and COULD put up better numbers. As such I think he is a better fit on a scoring line.

pushing Artem can result in either a crash and burn which can happen as he skates with his head down through center ice to have his clock cleaned and a serious concussion, which happened last year. Or he can meet the challenge and flourish.

My feeling is that there is no need to rush him. Let him work his way to a comfort zone and the 3rd line is a perfect place for him to do that.

Yes he is no way a physical player, but that comes from coaching which clearly he needs.

Artem can become a key player for NY but not by putting too much on his plate.

its not like NY are going to make any real noise this season, unless they land that center for Gaborik.

here is a good example of Artem's lack of ice sense

Here against Matt Cooke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXixraReToU

Here against Brad Stuart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoaSyuVRnEg

and here versus Chris Neil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJg1sOr204

for the record I like Anisimov, I just don't want to force his game. How many more of these hits can he absorb ?

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07-14-2010, 06:00 AM
  #110
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this is a recipe for disaster. this is NYC not Kansas City. Fans want to win... now, ownship wants revenue. There is not enough talent on this squad to lead the way for all the youth they wish to bring in. These young players are going to be pushed by Torts, to produce NOW and it might not be pretty.

The wind up is, Torts will be forced to play a conservative game and they'll be scraping by just winning or losing one goal games.. again. This will be the 4th season where this team will avg. less than 2g a game, unless our one star scores.

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07-14-2010, 06:35 AM
  #111
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7-8 seed. We got better just but the kids being a year older. Especially on D. The Devils got worse. Not that they'll drop past us. Toronto will suck again. Ottawa is on the verge of self destruct. Tampa, Florida and NYI will suck. Atlanta may take a step forward, watch out for them. Carolina makes the playoffs every other year, watch out there. I think the teams in the East stood pat or got worse, all we have to do is pick up some more points against the crowd to move up. It really all depends on the youth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockify View Post
I have thought this so many times you have no idea. I don't know if most Rangers fans realize how lucky this team has been for years and years as far as injuries go. It really worries me maybe because I follow the Islanders too and the amount of injuries they have had compared to the Rangers is night and day.
Some of it is luck and some of it is actually the staff. Philly, in my opinion, has the worst training staff in sports. They are clueless. Look through the years and you will see a mess of head and groin/hip injuries. We get a head injury, our guy rests until he is solid. They hide it and send the guy out for another game. It happens too often to be mistakes. And my god, what are they doing there to their groins and hips. I know that sounds funny, but look at their goalies. Surgeries, months on IR... Nittymaki was constantly getting shots and surgery, goes to Tampa and not a problem since.

One thing that is really damning... During the Torin Olympics, Forsberg had a bad groin injury with the flyers, couldn't play, the Flyers wanted him resting and not doing any exercise with the injury. He goes to Italy, consults the doctors, they have him skating and exercising the muscle. They get him healthy and back into game shape. Talk to the Philly fans, they hate the traininig staff. I think our guys do a good job after games and practices. They really understand the limits and powers of the body. Sure, a bad luck incident is around the corner but the preventative things that spiral out of control aren't our issue.

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07-14-2010, 08:42 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
this is a recipe for disaster. this is NYC not Kansas City. Fans want to win... now, ownship wants revenue. There is not enough talent on this squad to lead the way for all the youth they wish to bring in. These young players are going to be pushed by Torts, to produce NOW and it might not be pretty.

The wind up is, Torts will be forced to play a conservative game and they'll be scraping by just winning or losing one goal games.. again. This will be the 4th season where this team will avg. less than 2g a game, unless our one star scores.
Have they not been trying to win for the past 15+ years?

You make it sound like they're trying not to and we won't stand for it!

They've tried to do things the other way, and it's failed.

REAL fans, yes, even ones in New York, have more respect for an organization that's trying to build something and do it the right way.

There are no quick fixes. Deal with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
i'll save my final verdict until i know the roster in Sept. but the only real improvement is getting Hank and an actual NHL-caliber back up that can win some games and give him some rest.

We're counting on a 5ft player with no NHL exp. to come in and get top six minutes? That's a long shot. I mean i know the kid has skills, and i want him to do well, but i'm not getting my hopes up.

Outside of Gabs we have nothing but a few 2b liners and 3rd liners.
Hank will continue to get burned out scraping to win one goal games the majority of nights. Unless some rookies make a smash and some current players make some strides we'll barely make the playoffs again. What are we accomplishing by icing a team that will most likely miss the playoffs again? Another 10th overall?

I'm sorry i reserve the right to be skeptical here but I'm not buying this half @$$ rebuild. I hope i'm proven wrong but this "youth movement" may be nothing but a ruse constructed to keep Torts and Sather employed for a few more years in NY.

Kovalchuk or not, at the very least they should waive that bum Redden to attempt to improve the team going forward. Paying him 6.5m to put up 15p as a 6th defenseman is an insult to ranger fans.
How does waiving Redden for the sake of waiving Redden make us a better team?

We're not able to relieve ourselves of his cap hit until September.

There will be nothing to use that money on.

And we'd most likely be forcing the team to field 2 rookies and 2 sophomores on D.

Him putting up 15 points as the sixth defenseman is not the problem.

Him making $6.5 million is. Unfortunately, since we can't do anything about that until September, it actually makes us worse for the coming season.

And we wouldn't want the team to be worse next year, would we? I mean, we wouldn't want to insult you as a Rangers fan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
These are the lines I'd love to see this year:

FORWARDS

Brandon Dubinsky ($1.850m) / Erik Christensen ($0.925m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Vaclav Prospal ($2.100m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / Mats Zuccarello-Aasen ($1.750m)
Sean Avery ($1.938m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.300m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m) / Brian Boyle ($0.525m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Dane Byers ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN

Michal Rozsival ($5.000m) / * Marc Staal ($3.800m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / * Ryan McDonagh ($0.875m)
* Daniel Girardi ($2.750m) / Matt Gilroy ($1.750m)
Pavel Valentenko ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS

Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)

Switch Valentenko with Gilroy. Start Gilroy in the A (unless he has a lights out training camp). And pray MZA has legit game.

I like those lines. We're not very good but those are lines I'm comfortable with. Especially if they stick together.

That third line is a perfect one, IMO.

Hopefully Arty can take the next step this year.

I think Dubi with a full year on the wing playing with Gabs and EC could be a very successful line. Dubi has all the tools to control the puck and play and that line could be solid.

The most disappointing thing to me is Prust having to play with Boogaard and Boyle. I understand that at best Brandon Prust is a third liner, but I can just picture him creating TONS of opportunities with his hustle and forecheck play, only to be stuck setting up Derek and Brian. Talk about a nightmare for a player.

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Old
07-14-2010, 08:57 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hockify View Post
I have thought this so many times you have no idea. I don't know if most Rangers fans realize how lucky this team has been for years and years as far as injuries go. It really worries me maybe because I follow the Islanders too and the amount of injuries they have had compared to the Rangers is night and day.
I've pointed this out several times around here, and Shamrock touches on it a bit above, but you simply do not get lucky for "years and years". I'll concede that the Rangers have been lucky in that they've been able to avoid the freak long-term injury (skate cuts, broken legs from board impacts, etc.), but a HUGE component of that luck is the fact that Reg Grant and his staff are simply the class of the NHL when it comes to training. The Rangers deep pockets still allow them to have an advantage off the ice, and the training facility/staff is definitely one aspect of the organization for which this advantage has been employed very successfully.

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07-14-2010, 09:00 AM
  #114
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Season Expectations? Barring a major change, we have pretty much the same team as last year.

Little to no firepower up front outside of Gaborik, questons on defense outside of the top 3. The only improvement is we now have a legitimate backup goaltender.

I think its only natural to expect a similar season to the last one.

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07-14-2010, 09:02 AM
  #115
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And for all those penciling in Valentenko for a roster spot, I think you should check out the number of games hes played in the past couple of seasons....hes a Michael Sauer clone in the injury department.

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07-14-2010, 09:02 AM
  #116
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Excellent collection; excellent post. The color guy on the Red Wings video really highlights AA's complete lack of awareness.

What's disturbing is that the kid already had two years of North American hockey under his belt prior to last year's NHL stint. At some point you have to wonder if he's ever going to learn to keep his damned head up. Some guys never do.

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07-14-2010, 09:06 AM
  #117
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i have faith in my blueshirts and i think we will make it to the playoffs this year. and from there.. who knows what can happen. look at what philly did
I agree....

What's with the doom and gloom.... The Rangers have serious NHL veteran talent all over this roster... Sprinkle in some young and hungry kids.... This team can make the playoffs and go far in the playoffs if Hank can play like Halak did in the playoffs last year...

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07-14-2010, 09:15 AM
  #118
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I agree....

What's with the doom and gloom.... The Rangers have serious NHL veteran talent all over this roster... Sprinkle in some young and hungry kids.... This team can make the playoffs and go far in the playoffs if Hank can play like Halak did in the playoffs last year...
Vinny Prospal, Michal Rozsival, Wade Redden, Chris Drury = "serious NHL veteran talent?" c'mon

the latter 3 of that "serious NHL veteran talent" is whats hurting this organization the most.

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07-14-2010, 09:22 AM
  #119
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There are so many variables.

Can Gaborik stay healthy for another season? Will Prospal continue his up-and-down trend? Will AA progress or regress? Will MZA boom or struggle to adapt? Will we go with more youth on the blue line, and if so, can Gilroy and McDonagh handle a full NHL season on the 3rd pairing? Is this the year? Maybe next year? ESPN 2?

I pretty much expect that we'll be a borderline playoff team again, and Sather will do whatever he can to try and squeak into a spot.


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07-14-2010, 09:23 AM
  #120
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IMO the team is counting on further development from its youth in order to improve on last season. I think if it was genuinely shooting for a high draft pick, Prospal would not have been brought back and Biron would not have been signed.

On the thread topic, I'd say we essentially repeat last year's performance. We possibly make the playoffs as a 7-8 seed.
Totally agree that the club is counting on the youth for development but it will take time for these players to acclimate themselves to the rigors of the NHL. In the meantime Prospal didn't propel this team to new heights and surely a Flyer/NYI goalie is not expected to perform adequately enough to make his performance any better than what Johnson did. He just gives Johnson the proper workload needed for improvement in the AHL. This club did not improve (personnel wise)from a dismal performance last year and in fact it might have lost a few steps. Seriously who did we add to the roster? Boogaard and MZA and Biron. I can see the Atlantic Div doing this

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07-14-2010, 09:23 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
I agree....

What's with the doom and gloom.... The Rangers have serious NHL veteran talent all over this roster... Sprinkle in some young and hungry kids.... This team can make the playoffs and go far in the playoffs if Hank can play like Halak did in the playoffs last year...
wait what ? doom and gloom....um.... we stink. thats neither doom nor gloom. its reality. this team is no better right now than last years team which wasnt very good.

defensively we have glaring weaknesses which can be exploited. and we cant score.

serious nhl veteran talent ? our 3 top paid vets all suk horse. period.

this team has one bonafide top player and the rest of the forwards are a collection of 3rd line "energy and hustle" players who pretty much, to a man, lack any real goal scoring acumen. it was that way last year, and still is today.

making the playoffs for this team, right now, is a stretch. going far is a pipe dream.

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07-14-2010, 09:29 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Vinny Prospal, Michal Rozsival, Wade Redden, Chris Drury = "serious NHL veteran talent?" c'mon

the latter 3 of that "serious NHL veteran talent" is whats hurting this organization the most.
You forgot to include these (2) serious NHL veteran talents in Lundqvist, and Gaborik...

also... I would include Avery in the mix as a veteran...

Drury and Rozy are still very effective NHL players.. Obviously, more was expected of Drury but he is still a good NHL player.. Brian Burke thinks so or he would not have picked him for Team USA... No?

Redden... well... (salary aside) can still play in the NHL as a bottom 6 pairing defenseman and be effective... but you are right.. his salary cap hit hurts the team...

There is talent on this team to make the playoffs and etc...

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07-14-2010, 09:32 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wait what ? doom and gloom....um.... we stink. thats neither doom nor gloom. its reality. this team is no better right now than last years team which wasnt very good.

defensively we have glaring weaknesses which can be exploited. and we cant score.

serious nhl veteran talent ? our 3 top paid vets all suk horse. period.

this team has one bonafide top player and the rest of the forwards are a collection of 3rd line "energy and hustle" players who pretty much, to a man, lack any real goal scoring acumen. it was that way last year, and still is today.

making the playoffs for this team, right now, is a stretch. going far is a pipe dream.

I don't agree with him but the truth lies somewhere in between.

We're no where near as bad as the detractors want to make it sound.

We're a middle of the pack team if healthy.


I do however find it humorous how overvalued our prospects are by most/how undervalued our current team is by most/and then how overvalued every other team is in the league.

It's always like everyone else is so good, we're the worst team in hockey, when will our amazing prospects be ready.


Last edited by ruckus*: 07-14-2010 at 09:41 AM.
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07-14-2010, 09:37 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I do however find it humorous how overvalued are prospects are by most/how undervalued our current team is by most/and then how overvalued every other team is in the league.

It's always like everyone else is so good, we're the worst team in hockey, when will our amazing prospects be ready.

Really good quotes here... agreed....

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07-14-2010, 09:59 AM
  #125
offdacrossbar
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I don't agree with him but the truth lies somewhere in between.

We're no where near as bad as the detractors want to make it sound.

We're a middle of the pack team if healthy.


I do however find it humorous how overvalued are prospects are by most/how undervalued our current team is by most/and then how overvalued every other team is in the league.

It's always like everyone else is so good, we're the worst team in hockey, when will our amazing prospects be ready.
i see it this way. what have we done to address our main problem- lack of goal scoring ? dubi, cally, avery, arty- those guys might have better seasons sure but will they score more goals?

the only new player really is mza. hes talented but what impact will he have ?

we have kreider, mcd and stepan who seem to be guys who will play for us soon.

grachev is close as well. but none can be counted on this year.

as for our veterans, its hard to undervalue redden, rozy and capt quaalude.

i mean one is a borderline nhl'er, the other an average 2nd pair dman who does not shoot the puck and the team capt is an aging, slowing checking centerman who's best attribute is penalty killing.

is hard to be realistic with this bunch without sounding negative. so many ifs... and we havent even begun to mention injuries.

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