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07-13-2010, 10:03 AM
  #1
glenngineer
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Stop Blaming Erat

Why does everyone still want to blame Erat for the game 5 loss. It's not as if he made the mistake 200 feet away from his net. Chicago still had to skate it up ice, get the goalie off the ice, get another man on, get the puck to the net and then score. Where was the D on the play? Ward was in front, by himself defending two Hawks. Why is Arnott not getting any sort of blame for shooting the puck on the PP? Why were we only using the offensive zone to control the puck? We had the entire rink to use to play keep away yet we tried to only use the offensive zone. Also, we had 4 minutes of PP time in OT with a fresh sheet of ice and couldn't muster any sort of offense. As dumb a play as Erat made, he was not the only one that was at fault here. If he put the puck in his own net ala Steve Smith I could understand the reaction but come on, his play was 200 freaking feet from his own net. Lots of things had to go wrong from that point and unfortunately they did.

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07-13-2010, 10:16 AM
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Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Why does everyone still want to blame Erat for the game 5 loss. It's not as if he made the mistake 200 feet away from his net. Chicago still had to skate it up ice, get the goalie off the ice, get another man on, get the puck to the net and then score. Where was the D on the play? Ward was in front, by himself defending two Hawks. Why is Arnott not getting any sort of blame for shooting the puck on the PP? Why were we only using the offensive zone to control the puck? We had the entire rink to use to play keep away yet we tried to only use the offensive zone. Also, we had 4 minutes of PP time in OT with a fresh sheet of ice and couldn't muster any sort of offense. As dumb a play as Erat made, he was not the only one that was at fault here. If he put the puck in his own net ala Steve Smith I could understand the reaction but come on, his play was 200 freaking feet from his own net. Lots of things had to go wrong from that point and unfortunately they did.
how hard is it to put the puck under your skate & take the beating as time runs out ?

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07-13-2010, 10:19 AM
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hipcheck85
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I still want to blame him because he had CONTROL of the puck deep in the Hawks end and made a foolish play by passing the puck. He is the one guy on our team that I would have bet on to hold onto the puck, he is notorious for holding onto the puck...sometimes to long, and the one time he just needs to keep control and continue to curl behind the net, he dishes it off. BAD PLAY. Now I agree he was not the only one to blame. If Arnot even tries to get a body on Toews after he gains control of the puck it may slow that play down or force Toews to cough up the puck but Mr Softee did nothing. Also blame Trotz for having a Power Play unit out there when you needed strong defensive players out there to eat up the last minutes.
I also blame Channel 4 for making me watch hockey on telemundo!!!


Last edited by hipcheck85: 07-13-2010 at 01:13 PM.
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07-13-2010, 10:58 AM
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Basher
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I think if he had skated it to the corner and given the puck away, they would have came down and scored anyway. He had a wide open pass that could have led to the game-sealing goal. He made a mistake, a costly one as it turns out...but I don't blame him. The whole team has to play the game out and we sat back and let them bring it to us in that last 20 seconds, it happens all the time in sports. I think they score that goal regardless of what Erat does, given the way we laid off.

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07-13-2010, 11:04 AM
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sighthndlady
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I've never blamed Erat. I put that one solely on Trotz. He's got a lead with less than a minute to go, and a power play. Instead of putting his absolute best defensive 5 players out there and just closing out the game, he goes for a PP unit. We didn't need to score. We needed to keep Chicago from scoring.

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07-13-2010, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post
I think if he had skated it to the corner and given the puck away, they would have came down and scored anyway. He had a wide open pass that could have led to the game-sealing goal. He made a mistake, a costly one as it turns out...but I don't blame him. The whole team has to play the game out and we sat back and let them bring it to us in that last 20 seconds, it happens all the time in sports. I think they score that goal regardless of what Erat does, given the way we laid off.
I think this may be one of the silliest things I have ever read. You will, on the rare occasion, see teams tie the score in the final seconds of a hockey game. Even rarer is when the team is at even strength, i.e., they have not pulled their goalie or have pulled their goalie on a PK situation. I can't even remember a time where a team is on the powerplay, and the other team comes down and scores a short-handed goal without pulling their goalie in the final 20 seconds of the game. It is almost unfathomable. What is even harder to understand is how it was allowed to happen given the circumstances.....game 5 in a playoff game? Are you kidding me? I am stunned that someone has rationalized this loss to the point that they actually believe the Hawks would have "scored anyways". Wow....

Arnott should never have been on the ice. It should have been our best penalty killers and defensive players. The players screwed up - Arnott/Erat, but the coaching staff is equally to blame. Quite simply, it was an epic choke job....one of the worst I have ever seen.

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07-13-2010, 12:28 PM
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Oh God no. I really did not want to relive this moment. I was hoping I could go through life denying that this ever happened. Wow, now the nightmares will return. It was a terrible effort by the team, not just Erat. We could have at least scored a goal in OT with PP time left. I guess it could happen to anyone.

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07-13-2010, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post
I think if he had skated it to the corner and given the puck away, they would have came down and scored anyway. He had a wide open pass that could have led to the game-sealing goal. He made a mistake, a costly one as it turns out...but I don't blame him. The whole team has to play the game out and we sat back and let them bring it to us in that last 20 seconds, it happens all the time in sports. I think they score that goal regardless of what Erat does, given the way we laid off.
Again if he has any confidence in his stick handling ability ( which he surely does as he holds the puck for long periods on time) he curls back and maintains control of the puck. Think whatever you want but it WAS a terrible decision to put the puck out front, and for that YES the blame falls to him.

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07-13-2010, 01:25 PM
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triggrman
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First if Erat had listened to Trotz he would have not thrown a blind pass up the middle, bad mistake. Second if they was so wide open, how does the puck get turned over to Toews the one guy we really didn't want to get the puck......


I guess we should blame Trotz for thinking Erat might listen or use a little common sense...

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07-13-2010, 02:26 PM
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jstreet
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the team effort was bad all around. the entire series easier than it should have been for the Hawks.

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07-13-2010, 03:10 PM
  #11
hipcheck85
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So you think we could have made it harder for the Hawks. Other than the Power Play, How? Without Hornqvist, I think the boys gave Chicago everything they had. We are a medium to low payroll team with the need to overachieve to get past the first round. we played up to our abilities, by no means did we make it easy on Chicago.

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07-13-2010, 03:13 PM
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OpenWheel
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I don't blame Erat. I've never blamed Erat. I think it's a bit silly to blame Erat.

That was a coaching staff, and team, loss. As soon as they brought out the powerplay unit, the movie doom doom doom music began playing in my head. I was angry when I saw that. (As much as I praise Jason Arnott's incredible hustling defensive game...) I don't even like the strategy they were told either.

Sure, the players need to get it done. Erat made an error. From then on the team and defense made bigger errors. But I've seen Trotz talk about it three times. Each time he blames the players for not doing anything the coaches told them. ("Keep it low". Wow, there's a sophisticated strategy, not. And a terrible one.) It's not like Trotz. I wish he'd either shut up or shoulder the blame. That's what leaders do. And he really deserves the lion's share of the blame as he had a poor strategy and a poor choice of personnel.

Sometimes #### happens. And we didn't win game six anyway. But in this game, I would say the uncovered back side of the net, allowing a man to sneak in there, was just as big as anything Erat did at the far end. And the coaching choices started the mess and were the big problem. Putting a powerplay unit out when in reality it was much more like a penalty kill situation while up a man, lol. And the strategy should have been similar to a penalty kill situation, playing keep away using all the ice. With the massive (almost unbeatable...) advantage of up a man instead of down one. Unbelievable crash and burn, and it was as much coaching as anything.


Last edited by OpenWheel: 07-13-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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07-13-2010, 03:30 PM
  #13
token grinder
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i will forever hold contempt for erat that decision until he redeems himself in the playoffs.

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07-13-2010, 03:39 PM
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hipcheck85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
I don't blame Erat. I've never blamed Erat. I think it's a bit silly to blame Erat.

That was a coaching staff, and team, loss. As soon as they brought out the powerplay unit, the movie doom doom doom music began playing in my head. I was angry when I saw that. (As much as I praise Jason Arnott's incredible hustling defensive game...) I don't even like the strategy they were told either.

Sure, the players need to get it done. Erat made an error. From then on the team and defense made bigger errors. But I've seen Trotz talk about it three times. Each time he blames the players for not doing anything the coaches told them. ("Keep it low". Wow, there's a sophisticated strategy.) It's not like Trotz. I wish he'd either shut up or shoulder the blame. That's what leaders do. And he really deserves the lion's share of the blame as he had a poor strategy and a poor choice of personnel.

Sometimes #### happens. And we didn't win game six anyway. But in this game, I would say the uncovered back side of the net, allowing a man to sneak in there, was just as big as anything Erat did at the far end. And the coaching choices started the mess and were the big problem. Putting a powerplay unit out when in reality it was much more like a penalty kill situation while up a man, lol. And the strategy should have been similar to a penalty kill situation with the massive (almost unbeatable...) advantage of up a man instead of down one. Unbelievable crash and burn, and it was as much coaching as anything.
So In part I Agree with you that the coaching is partly to blame, but Erat is also at fault. With seconds remaining and possesion is all yours you don't commit unforced turnovers...you eat the puck, rag it, turn back, stay behind the net and protect it as long as possible. It was a cgame of keep away at that point and Marty went with the give away.

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07-13-2010, 04:01 PM
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OpenWheel
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Yeah, he made an error. But I don't agree he had enough room to do much except freeze it, leading to a face off. There were still 30 second left, which is "seconds" but not like he could have killed most of it. Losing a face off would have led to a well organized Chicago rush also. Still much better to go to a face off than a blind pass of course.

"Keep it low" with a regular pp unit was a very poor strategy to begin with though. Because gee, may you end up getting trapped and needing to freeze it. If you play an umbrella you have the entire ice, both directions, to play keep away.

Looking at a replay I keep screaming at Joel Ward to see who's about to get right behind him, in front of the net. Argh! Plus we could have still won in ovetime. If the pp was so good that they deserved to be on the ice at the end of regulation they should have scored in overtime. Erat's mistake probably only increased our overall losing chances by about five or maybe ten percent with so much that still had to play out. Not nearly the "one error" that deserves to be ragged on endlessly.


Last edited by OpenWheel: 07-13-2010 at 04:27 PM.
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07-13-2010, 04:26 PM
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hipcheck85
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Well we'll agree to disagree,. On every team I played on or coached the thing that gets my blood boiling more than anything is, when protecting a lead late in a game, commiting a unforced turnover. We were a man up at the time. Force somebody to come play you and THEN dish to the open man. But hindsight being what it is Erat probably thought he saw a wide open Arnott. But I still blame him for the bad turnover and probably always will. Sad thing is he was having a great game up until that point.

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07-13-2010, 04:38 PM
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OpenWheel
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Well, looking at it again, he had more space than I remembered. Yeah, he had more options to wait a bit longer until the man was on him. It was unforced and a big error. He had a man coming right in his face though and probably had been told to keep the puck moving. Still an error. Where was the famed Erat puck hogging spin when we needed it? lol.

We don't disagree all that much. It's just that when you run the probabilities even a big error doesn't add that hugely to a chance of a loss when they are still so far away. We had too many guys low, it was far too easy to gain the zone. And just a moment later, if Ward does a job on the back side, we still win. (Although Ward didn't get help either and I think got bit confused as to who to cover.) I just agree with glenngineer's take that a lot more people played big roles in the loss than just Erat.


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07-13-2010, 04:42 PM
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hipcheck85
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Thats what really sucked was of all people to pick that pass off it had to be Toews.

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07-13-2010, 04:55 PM
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Blaming Erat, and only Erat, is simplistic and overlooks the totality of what transpired during that final minute of regulation in game 5.

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07-13-2010, 05:52 PM
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Guys, I doubt we are ever going to blame Marty more than he blames HIMSELF for this. And I agree that first this should have been played more as a PK given the Preds atrocious power play and the Hawks opportunistic short handed talents. So the coaches get the first share, then Erat makes a bone-headed play, then it ie compounded on ice by a Keystone-cops tragedy of errors from virtually everybody else as well as a decent play by by Chicago, so the tide of the game, the series, and thus the Stanley Cup turns.

As a result, I like to think the whole organization burns for redemption this year. We shall see.

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07-13-2010, 05:53 PM
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Guys, I doubt we are ever going to blame Marty more than he blames HIMSELF for this. And I agree that first this should have been played more as a PK given the Preds atrocious power play and the Hawks opportunistic short handed talents. So the coaches get the first share, then Erat makes a bone-headed play, then it ie compounded on ice by a Keystone-cops tragedy of errors from virtually everybody else as well as a decent play by by Chicago, so the tide of the game, the series, and thus the Stanley Cup turns.

As a result, I like to think the whole organization burns for redemption this year. We shall see.
Out-friggin-standing

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07-13-2010, 06:14 PM
  #22
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You're right glenn, it was a total TEAM fail that started with Trotz's decision to put a PP unit out there. BUT Erat had possession deep in their zone...he should have done everything possible to kill that clock. He never should have tried that pass.
That's why I blame Erat... and I second ryan's sentiment.

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07-13-2010, 08:52 PM
  #23
Basher
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Oh well. I saw the brilliance in the idea, just didn't work out. That's sports, if you're blaming one guy for a loss in a team sport, you must be new to Earth.

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07-13-2010, 10:24 PM
  #24
glenngineer
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Well, for those of you who would like to blame Erat for the loss, how about we blame the PP for the 1 for 26 or 27 effort they gave. Did that not play into the series at all?

A wise man once said, when a goal is scored, there are usually about 3 things that go wrong on any given play. First one was Erat, second was letting them get the goalie off the ice and the third was two Hawks in front of the net with only a forward to defend them.

It's a team game, we win together and lose together. If it weren't for Erat, the game would've been over long before that. We had chances to win and didn't get it done in OT. Plenty of blame all the way around. I hope the team has learned from it's mistakes and builds on it for the upcoming season.

I am very excited about the season and this team. Sometimes you have to fail to get ahead. I think the guys know what happened and want to rectify it and will have a chip on their shoulder all year long and into the playoffs until they get that monkey off their backs.

I think the coaching staff learned something as well thru all of this. Now it's time to move forward and kick some arse.

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07-13-2010, 11:33 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by sighthndlady View Post
I've never blamed Erat. I put that one solely on Trotz. He's got a lead with less than a minute to go, and a power play. Instead of putting his absolute best defensive 5 players out there and just closing out the game, he goes for a PP unit. We didn't need to score. We needed to keep Chicago from scoring.
I agree totally!! If nothing else put 5 defenseman out there. If there was a time for Tootoo to have been on the power play that was it. Because he could take the puck to the corner and nobody could knock him off it. Trotz then played it like it was nothing.

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