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Old
07-13-2010, 09:38 PM
  #1
SergeConstantin74
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Cammalleri went golfing with Subban

Had fun golfing with P.K. Subban yesterday...he looks good training hard! @MCammalleri13



I wonder who was the winner.

I guess it's PK because Mike would have said it was him.

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07-13-2010, 09:47 PM
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hogtownhabsfan
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Taking him under his wing. Me like.

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07-13-2010, 09:47 PM
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There's an interview of each of them at the golf course on TSN. It's pretty generic.

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07-13-2010, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Taking him under his wing. Me like.
Gonna be too cocky and never get 40goals without Iginla?

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07-14-2010, 09:12 AM
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Habsfanatical
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Originally Posted by Supertramp View Post
Gonna be too cocky and never get 40goals without Iginla?
Considering he has never scored 40 in this league

Im looking forward to see his stats for the upcoming year.. If he continues his up one year and down the next ( This is the "up" year ) I think he should get 40.. knock on wood of course..

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07-14-2010, 09:21 AM
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Ozymandias
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Buddy movie in the making. The funny black guy and the funny half-Italian half-Jewish guy.

Let's call it : PK and the Squid

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07-14-2010, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Habsfanatical View Post
Considering he has never scored 40 in this league

Im looking forward to see his stats for the upcoming year.. If he continues his up one year and down the next ( This is the "up" year ) I think he should get 40.. knock on wood of course..
I don't think it works this way for Cammy.

You're relying on a small sample of seasons to say this, as his down seasons seem rather circumstanstial.

This season, with the playoffs, he scored 39 goals in 84 games. I wouldn't call that an off year. But because of the circumstance of being injured this season, his seasonal stats are down, but his performances were nothing close to a down year.

IMO, Cammalleri will be pretty solid year in and year out as long as he doesn't get injured and keeps the same linemates (well, at least the same centerman, or a better one).

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07-14-2010, 09:56 AM
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Really like Cammaleri ... one thing that could be cool is if Markov decides to take Avtsyn under his wing (when Avtsyn comes to the NHL). Like Gonchar and Malkin

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07-14-2010, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I don't think it works this way for Cammy.

You're relying on a small sample of seasons to say this, as his down seasons seem rather circumstanstial.
This season, with the playoffs, he scored 39 goals in 84 games. I wouldn't call that an off year. But because of the circumstance of being injured this season, his seasonal stats are down, but his performances were nothing close to a down year.

IMO, Cammalleri will be pretty solid year in and year out as long as he doesn't get injured and keeps the same linemates (well, at least the same centerman, or a better one).
5 seasons is a small sample??? 7 seasons if you include '02-'03 and '03-'04 when he played 28 and 31 games... I dont include playoff points in with regular season points and such because you arent guarenteed to even make the playoffs.

'05-'06 80 games 50 points down
'06-'07 81 games 80 points up
'07-'08 63 games 47 points down
'08-'09 81 games 82 points up
'09-'10 65 games 50 points down
'10-'11 ?? games ?? points up???

I was strictly talking about how his points coincide with his games played.. If he plays a full season chances are he hits a ppg.. If he doesnt because of injuries or what not he averages less then a ppg.. So if he follows the past 4 seasons and plays a full season he may hit a ppg which could include 40 goals.. once again.. knock on wood.. Weve been hit with the injury bug enough the past couple seasons IMO!

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07-14-2010, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfanatical View Post
5 seasons is a small sample??? 7 seasons if you include '02-'03 and '03-'04 when he played 28 and 31 games... I dont include playoff points in with regular season points and such because you arent guarenteed to even make the playoffs.

'05-'06 80 games 50 points down
'06-'07 81 games 80 points up
'07-'08 63 games 47 points down
'08-'09 81 games 82 points up
'09-'10 65 games 50 points down
'10-'11 ?? games ?? points up???
Your analysis is simplistic and ignores factors and context.

You can't count his first three seasons (8pts, 15pts, 55pts), as all young players gain experience, and it is usually an upward slope for talented players. You can't count it till he reaches his peak, which was when he first got 80 points. It is even more ridiculous that you label his first 50 points season as (down). The season he played before, he had 15 points in 31 games. His season of 55 points was an UP year. That's why you can't rely on a constant with his first seasons, as it is a constant upward slope. The upward slope went like this : 8/28, 15/31, 55/80, 80/81

I'll do like you and use a miror constant, and then it means after next season of doing 80 points, Cammalleri will have seasons of 55 points in 80 games, 15 points in 31 games, and then 8 points in 28 games, like so :

8-15-50-80-50-80-50-80-50-15-8

I used the same simplistic equation.

Then the two seasons where he gets less points, he's injured, that's CIRCUMSTANTIAL. It's not a down year in terms of play.


Quote:
I was strictly talking about how his points coincide with his games played..
It is silly to think that because he got injured in two seasons out of 4 since he reached his peak, there will be a trend where he does it every two years. It's not like we're talking of overall performance here, we're talking of injuries, something no one has any control of, including Cammalleri. It's even more foolish to think that because numbers coincided in a sample of 2 out of 4 in pairs, then it means the subsequent numbers, in an extremely complex system of variables, will repeat themselves, which, even in mathematics, is unlikely.

Quote:
If he plays a full season chances are he hits a ppg.. If he doesnt because of injuries or what not he averages less then a ppg..
Well, then you agree it's because of injuries, hence circumstantial, hence relying on a sample of 4 seasons, when 2 of them count injuries, is a waste of time.

Quote:
So if he follows the past 4 seasons and plays a full season he may hit a ppg which could include 40 goals.. once again.. knock on wood.. Weve been hit with the injury bug enough the past couple seasons IMO!
Some players play for many seasons without getting injured, and suddenly they start getting a string of injuries. Some hit a string in their first few seasons, but then go on to have many consecutive seasons without long term injuries (15+ games). It's a highly unpredictable model to work with.


Last edited by Ozymandias: 07-14-2010 at 10:41 AM.
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Old
07-14-2010, 11:14 AM
  #11
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Wow Subban is huge now, is he fat?

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Old
07-14-2010, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Wow Subban is huge now, is he fat?
No, he's a new brand of tank; Subbanator

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Old
07-14-2010, 11:40 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Habsfanatical View Post
5 seasons is a small sample???
Yes, 5 seasons is a very small sample. Typically, statistics start getting interesting with a sample of >30. Same reason why the "Timmins first round draft picks sucks" claim is dubious.

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07-14-2010, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Yes, 5 seasons is a very small sample. Typically, statistics start getting interesting with a sample of >30. Same reason why the "Timmins first round draft picks sucks" claim is dubious.
Five seasons is a quarter of a career - not small at all. Thirty seasons? You DO know what they're discussing, right???

Bring on the regular season - arguing over stats - ridiculous...

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Old
07-14-2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Wow Subban is huge now, is he fat?
Why huge am i missing something? Isnt he still at 206 lbs?

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07-14-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Five seasons is a quarter of a career - not small at all.
Five season isn't "a quarter of a career", it's five. If you try to find a pattern over the course of seasons (and this is exactly what is claimed), it doesn't matter if these seasons are long, short or whatever, the only question of how many of them are in the sample. In this case, it's five.

Quote:
Thirty seasons? You DO know what they're discussing, right???
Statistics don't care if they are convenient for you or not. If you don't have enough data to observe a statistical pattern, then you don't have enough data to observe a statistical pattern. Mathematics won't change because they don't match expectations.

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Old
07-14-2010, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Crusher20 View Post
Why huge am i missing something? Isnt he still at 206 lbs?
he's now at 214lbs!

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Old
07-14-2010, 01:33 PM
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Freaking loled in the other threads during the playoffs on the main boards where Pens fans would say that Subban is not going to scare anybody on top of his 5'6'' .

Sens fans are just as ridiculous when they claim Karlsson is going to be as effective as Subban physically/defensively. Subban is probably going to top at 215-220 pounds, while Karlsson might never even hit 200.

After what he did in the NHL (playoffs AND 2 season games), in the AHL, and in his Junior career, knowing about his attitude and the improvement he made in the last 2 years, knowing he's actually bulking up and now at 214 pounds and is still 21 years old, I can't believe some other teams fans just keep bashing on him and saying how he'll never be anything more than a fringe top-4 d-man with PP QB abilities. This guy is a rich man's Brian Campbell, with physical upside and undisuputed attitude for christ sake. This, and he'll probably be even better than him defensively.

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07-14-2010, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Freaking loled in the other threads during the playoffs on the main boards where Pens fans would say that Subban is not going to scare anybody on top of his 5'6'' .

Sens fans are just as ridiculous when they claim Karlsson is going to be as effective as Subban physically/defensively. Subban is probably going to top at 215-220 pounds, while Karlsson might never even hit 200.
Talking about it wont be nearly as much fun as watching it next year!

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07-14-2010, 01:40 PM
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Talking about it wont be nearly as much fun as watching it next year!
Yup. Can't wait to actually see him deliver some heavy hits on center ice, just to read the comments on the main boards about "ZOMGZZZ SUBBAN IS DIRTY SUSPEND THIS TOOLZZZ", or again, "ZOMGZ HE IS TEH CHEATER HOW CAN HE HIT SO MUCH ON TOP OF HIS 5'6'', 180 pounds LOLZ KARLSSON IS GOD!!!111".

Haters gonna hate.

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07-14-2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
Freaking loled in the other threads during the playoffs on the main boards where Pens fans would say that Subban is not going to scare anybody on top of his 5'6'' .

Sens fans are just as ridiculous when they claim Karlsson is going to be as effective as Subban physically/defensively. Subban is probably going to top at 215-220 pounds, while Karlsson might never even hit 200.

After what he did in the NHL (playoffs AND 2 season games), in the AHL, and in his Junior career, knowing about his attitude and the improvement he made in the last 2 years, knowing he's actually bulking up and now at 214 pounds and is still 21 years old, I can't believe some other teams fans just keep bashing on him and saying how he'll never be anything more than a fringe top-4 d-man with PP QB abilities. This guy is a rich man's Brian Campbell, with physical upside and undisuputed attitude for christ sake. This, and he'll probably be even better than him defensively.
Well, it is a generalisation, still, I remember in the playoffs, a lot of fans from other teams were highly impressed by Subban. A lot said they wish they had him on their team. I even read a Boston fan compare him to Orr.


The more I think of it, the more I believe PK has the complete package, and I'm not just talking of physical attributes, but desire, motivation and drive. He has ALL the tools. Nevermind size, I've seen some 6/6'1 Dmen demolish taller guys on the boards. As long as he can upgrade his play and be more physical, he'll have it all, unbelievable skating, speed, shot, passing, vision, deking, puck control, pokechecking, defensive awareness (getting much better each year)...

When he'll reach his peak, I'm pretty sure he'll be one of the top Ds in the league.

There's something Jordan-esque to Subban, personality-wise. He's charismatic, outspoken, but at the same time, seems to have the right ideas at the right place, is a team player and wants to win and is driven to be the best.


Last edited by Ozymandias: 07-14-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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Old
07-14-2010, 02:30 PM
  #22
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I remember a time when people where debating about letting him finish the season in the AHL, hes no ready, lets not burn him, better not repeat the same mistakes made with previous prospects and so on. I hope some people understand now that PK is just not your average prospect.

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07-14-2010, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Your analysis is simplistic and ignores factors and context.

You can't count his first three seasons (8pts, 15pts, 55pts), as all young players gain experience, and it is usually an upward slope for talented players. You can't count it till he reaches his peak, which was when he first got 80 points. It is even more ridiculous that you label his first 50 points season as (down). The season he played before, he had 15 points in 31 games. His season of 55 points was an UP year. That's why you can't rely on a constant with his first seasons, as it is a constant upward slope. The upward slope went like this : 8/28, 15/31, 55/80, 80/81

I'll do like you and use a miror constant, and then it means after next season of doing 80 points, Cammalleri will have seasons of 55 points in 80 games, 15 points in 31 games, and then 8 points in 28 games, like so :

8-15-50-80-50-80-50-80-50-15-8

I used the same simplistic equation.

Then the two seasons where he gets less points, he's injured, that's CIRCUMSTANTIAL. It's not a down year in terms of play.




It is silly to think that because he got injured in two seasons out of 4 since he reached his peak, there will be a trend where he does it every two years. It's not like we're talking of overall performance here, we're talking of injuries, something no one has any control of, including Cammalleri. It's even more foolish to think that because numbers coincided in a sample of 2 out of 4 in pairs, then it means the subsequent numbers, in an extremely complex system of variables, will repeat themselves, which, even in mathematics, is unlikely.



Well, then you agree it's because of injuries, hence circumstantial, hence relying on a sample of 4 seasons, when 2 of them count injuries, is a waste of time.



Some players play for many seasons without getting injured, and suddenly they start getting a string of injuries. Some hit a string in their first few seasons, but then go on to have many consecutive seasons without long term injuries (15+ games). It's a highly unpredictable model to work with.

holy ****ing over analyze batman !!!

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Old
07-14-2010, 02:39 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Five season isn't "a quarter of a career", it's five. If you try to find a pattern over the course of seasons (and this is exactly what is claimed), it doesn't matter if these seasons are long, short or whatever, the only question of how many of them are in the sample. In this case, it's five.

Five seasons is five.. correct.. Is that what you meant to say? so a quarter of a players career is 5 seasons.. so where are your stats to show that a decent number of players actually play 20 seasons?


Statistics don't care if they are convenient for you or not. If you don't have enough data to observe a statistical pattern, then you don't have enough data to observe a statistical pattern. Mathematics won't change because they don't match expectations.
and 5 seasons gives you 5 peaks to go off of regardless if they're down or up.. Something I think is enough to base even a best guess theory..

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Old
07-14-2010, 02:47 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Habsfanatical View Post
and 5 seasons gives you 5 peaks to go off of regardless if they're down or up.. Something I think is enough to base even a best guess theory..
You *think*? Well, that change everything.

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