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Spaling vs. Smithson

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Old
07-14-2010, 10:19 AM
  #26
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
This is a weak draft and a 2nd rounder most likely has a 4th round value.
It may be a weak draft but I don't think GM's go, this draft is going to suck so we'll give you a higher pick for the player. If this draft is that bad, get a pick the following year. They also said this years draft was bad too.

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07-14-2010, 10:20 AM
  #27
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as long as Smithson stays in the $750k or less area and he doesn't show a significant decrease in usefulness. Why should we ever look to move him?

He's a good faceoff guy, kills penalties, won't hurt the team in his 4th line role. Maybe just as important is he's a great character guy. Let him ride it out here, for the money we aren't going to make any upgrade in his place.

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07-14-2010, 10:27 AM
  #28
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Smithson does two things, decent at faceoffs and is a good penalty killer. Seeing that our PK was horrible last year the only thing he brings to the table is faceoffs. To me, that is a waste of a roster spot. His puck handling skills are average at best. There are younger guys in the system that play the same game he does with more offensive upside. I like his hustle but at the end of the day, we need 12 guys that can play on the ice and to have one trick ponies is not worthy of a roster spot.

Case in point, we basically traded Arnott for Lombardi. Arnott will probably score more than Lombardi but Lombardi can be used on both special teams and at even strength. At the end of the day, we need guys that can play multiple roles and get it done at both ends of the ice.

Just like Fiddler, I think Smithson has served his purpose here but there are more talented guys in the system that can do everything he does and then some.

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07-14-2010, 10:28 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
as long as Smithson stays in the $750k or less area and he doesn't show a significant decrease in usefulness. Why should we ever look to move him?

He's a good faceoff guy, kills penalties, won't hurt the team in his 4th line role. Maybe just as important is he's a great character guy. Let him ride it out here, for the money we aren't going to make any upgrade in his place.
The only reason would be that Spaling beats him out. There are a lot of talented players in Milwaukee that are NHL ready; Spaling, Klausen, Halischuk, the Santorellis, Thuresson. That's 6 players that can play NHL level game.

Now, do I expect them to beat out Smithson, nope. I just say there are options. I fully expect: Smithson-Goc-Andersson. With Belak and Tootoo in the box.

Frankly, Tootoo is making too much to be an extra forward but it's not my money.

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07-14-2010, 10:40 AM
  #30
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Andersson is going to have to beat out guys like Ward, Tootoo, Smithson and Goc to smell the lineup. He'll also have to beat out O'Reilly. Camp is going to be fun to watch because no one is assured a roster spot except for the obvious choices.

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07-14-2010, 10:44 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Andersson is going to have to beat out guys like Ward, Tootoo, Smithson and Goc to smell the lineup. He'll also have to beat out O'Reilly. Camp is going to be fun to watch because no one is assured a roster spot except for the obvious choices.
Agreed 100%.

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07-14-2010, 10:48 AM
  #32
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sure there are kids with more upside. but once they outperform their role, then they are looking for more money and we're looking for the next guy to plug in there.

Smithson is consistent and reliable. As BFC said, if we're trying to improve on a 4th liner, Tootoo is the one who makes too much.

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07-14-2010, 10:48 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Smithson does two things, decent at faceoffs and is a good penalty killer. Seeing that our PK was horrible last year the only thing he brings to the table is faceoffs. To me, that is a waste of a roster spot. His puck handling skills are average at best. There are younger guys in the system that play the same game he does with more offensive upside. I like his hustle but at the end of the day, we need 12 guys that can play on the ice and to have one trick ponies is not worthy of a roster spot.

Case in point, we basically traded Arnott for Lombardi. Arnott will probably score more than Lombardi but Lombardi can be used on both special teams and at even strength. At the end of the day, we need guys that can play multiple roles and get it done at both ends of the ice.

Just like Fiddler, I think Smithson has served his purpose here but there are more talented guys in the system that can do everything he does and then some.
We basically traded one year of Arnott for 3 years of Lombardi, Halischuk, a 2nd round pick, and 1 million bucks in savings (so ~ SK/Jonas Anderson...) Not bad.

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Old
07-14-2010, 11:10 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
sure there are kids with more upside. but once they outperform their role, then they are looking for more money and we're looking for the next guy to plug in there.

Smithson is consistent and reliable. As BFC said, if we're trying to improve on a 4th liner, Tootoo is the one who makes too much.
I am on the fence about Tootoo as well in this discussion. He is a one trick pony as well in what he really brings to the team. He is an agitator/middle weight enforcer. Problem here is, we drop Tootoo, we virtually have no one to step in and protect our guys. We drop Smithson and we have guys that can replace what he does. Neither really provide any offense so depending on what the staff feels is necessary in the lineup will determine their fate really.

As far as your first statement goes, you're ok with keeping Smithson even though there are more talented kids that can outperform him and will have to be replaced in time by other kids who have more talent than Smithson? We know what we get in Smithson and that's fine. I'd rather have more well rounded talent on the ice and if we have to replace them in a few years with other kids with the same skills I'm good with that. Our lower line guys have to bring more to the table than other teams because of our internal cap. Smithson has served his purpose but I think he's on his way out.

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07-14-2010, 11:16 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I think he would fetch a hell of a lot higher than that. Scouting HF, BJs would have interest in him, Canucks, Chicago, Atlanta.

The guy has some scoring punch and plays a strong 4th line. 2nd or 3rd in this weak draft.

The players I could see jettisoned this season are Smithy and Sully. Both on the last years of their deals and the plan is to replace them with younger players (Smithson for one of the 8 billion forwards in Milwaukee. Radulov for Sully...... Maybe). Also I see a LOT of offensive forwards in the market who need homes.

I'm going to be insane on this because this goes WAY out of status quo for the Preds, but if the current batch of forwards can't find homes what if they are willing to take cheap 1 year offers to get into NEXT year's UFA market? Or say Nashville goes totally crazy, finds a way to trade Sully and Tootoo and one other forward for picks and offers Kovy a 1 year 5.5 million dollar deal. Doesn't risk Weber because it's a 1 year deal.

You GOT to think the forwards in the UFA system are beginning to feel desperate.
did you really just type that?

Smithson has ZERO offensive skills.. his goals are typically either empty netters or richochets off his butt.

Sully is only traded if we are out of it at the deadline.

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07-14-2010, 11:28 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
did you really just type that?

Smithson has ZERO offensive skills.. his goals are typically either empty netters or richochets off his butt.

Sully is only traded if we are out of it at the deadline.
His 9 goals last season say other wise. Could be a fluke but he DID score 9 goals. 7 ES goals 2 Shorthanded goals. 2 of the ES goals were empty nets. He has some offense for a 4th liner.

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07-14-2010, 12:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
As far as your first statement goes, you're ok with keeping Smithson even though there are more talented kids that can outperform him and will have to be replaced in time by other kids who have more talent than Smithson? We know what we get in Smithson and that's fine. I'd rather have more well rounded talent on the ice and if we have to replace them in a few years with other kids with the same skills I'm good with that. Our lower line guys have to bring more to the table than other teams because of our internal cap. Smithson has served his purpose but I think he's on his way out.
Like you said, we know what we have in Smithson. Because of our financial situation, we're also a team that needs as many sure things as possible. Smithson has proven himself over several seasons. Kids with more upside can still be developed and worked into the lineup, I certainly don't think that Jerred Smithson is blocking the path of any serviceable NHL forwards, certainly none that will outperform his role for his salary.

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07-14-2010, 12:29 PM
  #38
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The only reason he had 9 (really 5 by your calculations) is because he didn't play 4th line minutes for most of the year. He's not going to get more then 4th rounder under any draft.

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07-14-2010, 01:25 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
His 9 goals last season say other wise. Could be a fluke but he DID score 9 goals. 7 ES goals 2 Shorthanded goals. 2 of the ES goals were empty nets. He has some offense for a 4th liner.
I dont think you can call anyone who has never cracked 10 goals in a season as having any "punch"

before last year he had 5,5,7,4. And if you are playing 80 games a year as a forward sheer blind luck should get you 5 goals

the only players who score less than Smithson are the true goons and defensive defensemen.

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07-14-2010, 02:27 PM
  #40
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I have to agree with BFC, Smithson is a pretty good 4th liner when it comes to scoring goals. Look at Chicago, a guy like Kopecky got 10 goals last year who would be considered a 3rd line play on most teams. Smithson also outscored whoever played on Detroits 4th line last year. While no offensive dynamo, Smithson is a decent scorer as far as 4th liners go.

The thing that I would look at keeping Smithson over Spaling is the physical aspect. Smithson is bigger and can go banging in necessary and will even drop the gloves. Spaling is missing that part of the game. Though if a team offered a 2nd for Smithson then I would drive him to the airport.

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07-14-2010, 02:32 PM
  #41
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well, since its summer and there is nothing to do but argue minutia, i will counter your argument (wsp) by stating that last years 9 goals were an aberration created by the fact that he played on what was essentially our 2nd line, and that 4 or 5 goals is a much more typical Smithson output when he is on the 4th line which is the key.

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07-14-2010, 03:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Smithson is not going anywhere he is Trotz's boy. Plus why give away a real good penalty killer. Good faceoff man. Spaling is still young and makes more than Smithson anyways. You also have to factor injuries which happen every year. So why get rid of either. Smithson can't go down to Milw. Spaling can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
as long as Smithson stays in the $750k or less area and he doesn't show a significant decrease in usefulness. Why should we ever look to move him?

He's a good faceoff guy, kills penalties, won't hurt the team in his 4th line role. Maybe just as important is he's a great character guy. Let him ride it out here, for the money we aren't going to make any upgrade in his place.


I just personally think why not have a younger guy?? The Hawks and Penguins both recently won cups on very young players legs. Spaling is significantly younger than Smithson, plus can play basically the same game and he is also a character guy, I have met him a couple times before, very good guy.

I just think I would rather have Spaling for basically same money and he is alot younger, and could maybe one day in the near future pull off some key goals in a playoff series. OHL or not, he has put up better numbers than Smithson in past juniors, I just think he could be clutch like Travis Moen, or something.

I also am not a fan of the theory that Spaling can be sent to Milwaukee without having to pass through waivers and Smithson would have to pass through, so lets just keep Smithson in the lineup. I do not like that idea, its not fair to Spaling or any of the other guys in Milwaukee. Let the best/youngest guy go at 'er!



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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
The only reason would be that Spaling beats him out. There are a lot of talented players in Milwaukee that are NHL ready; Spaling, Klausen, Halischuk, the Santorellis, Thuresson. That's 6 players that can play NHL level game.

Now, do I expect them to beat out Smithson, nope. I just say there are options. I fully expect: Smithson-Goc-Andersson. With Belak and Tootoo in the box.

Frankly, Tootoo is making too much to be an extra forward but it's not my money.
Is Tootoo worth the money the Preds pay him based mainly on his go-out-and-stir-things-up type of play? He is one of the most well recognized predators and well known, a fan favourite, but if he going to be a Predator his whole career???


Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Andersson is going to have to beat out guys like Ward, Tootoo, Smithson and Goc to smell the lineup. He'll also have to beat out O'Reilly. Camp is going to be fun to watch because no one is assured a roster spot except for the obvious choices.
Camp is definitely going to be very fun! I wish I lived closer to I could check it out. It will be interesting to see how it ends up on opening night roster!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
well, since its summer and there is nothing to do but argue minutia, i will counter your argument (wsp) by stating that last years 9 goals were an aberration created by the fact that he played on what was essentially our 2nd line, and that 4 or 5 goals is a much more typical Smithson output when he is on the 4th line which is the key.
Well put!

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07-14-2010, 09:47 PM
  #43
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Smithson has been a quality penalty killer and PK faceoff guy for at least three NHL seasons, Spaling was 0fer at the dot on the PK. When the team was a top 5 PK unit, they had four guys over 45 % with 70 or more draws on the PK ... last season there were two.

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07-15-2010, 10:57 AM
  #44
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plus Smithson grows an awesome perv-stache during the playoffs.

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07-15-2010, 12:49 PM
  #45
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plus Smithson grows an awesome perv-stache during the playoffs.
Did Ellis still have his beard in camp? I saw an article from back in May where some of his teammates were ragging him about it being scraggly looking and one said it was like a "chia pet" on his face, LOL.

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07-16-2010, 12:27 PM
  #46
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Did Ellis still have his beard in camp? I saw an article from back in May where some of his teammates were ragging him about it being scraggly looking and one said it was like a "chia pet" on his face, LOL.
Oh yeah!! It was a bigtime beard! lol. Grew out fast thats for sure!

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07-16-2010, 02:06 PM
  #47
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Did Ellis still have his beard in camp? I saw an article from back in May where some of his teammates were ragging him about it being scraggly looking and one said it was like a "chia pet" on his face, LOL.
it still looks like a chia pet on his chin

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07-16-2010, 07:45 PM
  #48
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Speaking of Ryan Ellis, if he does not crack lineup this upcoming season, will he most likely be a shoe in for Preds the following season? This guy could be the best defenseman in junior hockey, just a bit on the short side.

Any chance we move him to forward??

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07-18-2010, 11:23 AM
  #49
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Speaking of Ryan Ellis, if he does not crack lineup this upcoming season, will he most likely be a shoe in for Preds the following season? This guy could be the best defenseman in junior hockey, just a bit on the short side.

Any chance we move him to forward??
So do you think Ryan would be better on forward than blueline on Nashville?? We can always put him back on the point for the PP.

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07-18-2010, 07:02 PM
  #50
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I doubt any team would take Smithson; maybe a slight possibility.

We are loaded with fringe & unproven NHLers on one-way contracts: Smithson, Sulzer, O'Reily, Andersson, Kosysiten, Klein, Franson. That's atleat 5 million committed to the unproven and fringe.

For that reason, Smithson gets the heavy advantage over Spaling. This team can't afford to send it's profit to the minors.


Last edited by dulzhok: 07-18-2010 at 07:16 PM.
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