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Jody Shelley a good signing?

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Old
07-14-2010, 01:18 PM
  #76
Beef Invictus
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shelley is gonna have to work pretty damned hard to convince me. and if we somehow don't have a goalie at the start of the season, there's basically nothing he can do.

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07-14-2010, 01:19 PM
  #77
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shelley is gonna have to work pretty damned hard to convince me. and if we somehow don't have a goalie at the start of the season, there's basically nothing he can do.
Well, the thing to remember is that it isn't his fault... just like it wasn't Jones' fault that Holmgren gave him that contract.

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07-14-2010, 01:22 PM
  #78
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Shelley is a far better hockey player than Boogard, Laraque, Orr, Godard, McGratton. That doesn't make him good - but he is much better - and can fight with any one of them. I will take him on the 4th line instead of stumble and fall Darryl Powe any day.

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07-14-2010, 01:31 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Shelley is a far better hockey player than Boogard, Laraque, Orr, Godard, McGratton. That doesn't make him good - but he is much better - and can fight with any one of them. I will take him on the 4th line instead of stumble and fall Darryl Powe any day.
You can actually watch hockey on TV now. I mean, if you wanted to.

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07-14-2010, 01:55 PM
  #80
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I really am not a huge fan of fighting, and it is, in part, due to the clownish nature of it in the NHL now with the instigator. 95% of the fights serve zero purpose other than guys just showing off that they're willing to go and justify their roster spot. I mean, Jody Shelley fighting the Boogaards and Orrs of the world has ZERO impact on the game. People that think it does, don't understand what the role of the enforcer was 30 years ago... he didn't go after the other enforcer (necessarily) he went after everyone.

I also agree that the officiating/league need to step up their game if they're going to continue with the instigator. It's fine to say we want to get away from vigilante justice (a reasonable position for the league's office), but then you need to crack down on the jackholes out there.
false

what happens with the instigator rule is that guys like cooke, hartnell, avery, even the girouxs and richards of the world, will take runs at people and run their mouths. then someone like shelley will say, "hey cooke, if you dont knock it off, im gonna beat the **** outta you"...than godard hears that and says, "hey shelley if you touch, him richards is dead"...then the only way to settle this whole mess of a situation is for the two big guys to eventually throw down

essentially bc of the instigator, cowards like cooke and kaleta can do whatever they want bc they have someone to fight their battles for them

thats why their should be no rule, bc if cooke had to worry about actually owning up and fighting, he never would have hit savard like that...or stick his knee out 5 times a game.....but i digress

do people really think that if there was no need for an "enforcer", that almost every team would have one (even detroit)?? gms and coaches and players all know the importance of these guys, so if you think that you are ahead of the game for pointing out that every gm in the league is wrong and the "enforcer role is dead", you should step back and ask yourself, "do i really know more than all the people who get paid money to make hockey decisions?, or do i not understand the role of these guys bc i never actually played the game at this level?"

im sorry but im really tired of hearing that "the enforcer is on his way out"...there may be a new brand of enforcers so to speak (a much smoother skater than in the past for example), but the enforcer is still a necessary part of a team

if we didnt have fighters on our team, hartnell richards giroux,briere etc wouldnt be as effective, and that is a 100% fact..having someone to protect the stars is a key part of a team, and thats why every team has a guy like shelley

if you want to talk about dollars, then yes we gave shelley 300k too much, but dont question his spot on the roster, bc he will serve a big time purpose...and 300k too much is a far cry from the extra couple million that most of our roster makes..dont take it out on shelley, bc our gm mismanaged the cap so bad and put us in a situation so bad that shelleys extra couple hundred thousand actually hurts us...shelleys cap # is closer to his actual value than just about everyone on our team

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07-14-2010, 01:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Shelley is a far better hockey player than Boogard, Laraque, Orr, Godard, McGratton. That doesn't make him good - but he is much better - and can fight with any one of them. I will take him on the 4th line instead of stumble and fall Darryl Powe any day.
Except our fourth line could have been, you know, one that established itself as tops in the league, consisting of Carcillo, Betts, and Laperriere. The real problem in this context is they still refuse to commit to a third line, be it as a scoring or checking line.

You do that, the pieces fall right into place and the fourth line doesn't need Jody Shelley, Darryl Powe, or any other schmo.

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07-14-2010, 02:25 PM
  #82
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false

what happens with the instigator rule is that guys like cooke, hartnell, avery, even the girouxs and richards of the world, will take runs at people and run their mouths. then someone like shelley will say, "hey cooke, if you dont knock it off, im gonna beat the **** outta you"...than godard hears that and says, "hey shelley if you touch, him richards is dead"...then the only way to settle this whole mess of a situation is for the two big guys to eventually throw down
I stopped reading right about there... cuz it's pretty apparent you haven't watched a NHL game in the last 15 years.

Given that the majority of fights come early on in games off of faceoffs... the little ditty you just told is patently false. And that's before we even begin to address how ridiculous the dialog you just wrote there plays out.

There's an instigator rule. Shelley instigates a fight with Cooke... Flyers go on the PK. Godard instigates a fight with Richards... Penguins go on the PK. So, what happens? The two goons -- whose only justification for a roster spot is their willingness to fight -- fight each other just so they can show everyone that they are, in fact, willing to fight.

Fighting is *ing idiotic in the NHL right now, there's, quite literally, no *ing point to it. There USED to be a point to it, but now it's pretty much dead and gone. Sure, sometimes guys fight to jack their team up and whatnot, but the VAST MAJORITY of fights in the NHL are fights between two marginal players and it serves no real purpose. Particularly when you're talking about the Jody Shelleys and Eric Godards of the world...

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07-14-2010, 02:25 PM
  #83
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Meh. The signing is a bit puzzling, but you really can't judge any of these signings/trades until the puck drops. The only move I have any type of problem with is Shelley, but IMO, he has just as much a chance of being a nothing player on the team as he does at being an impact player. I don't mean impact player like PPG or anything like that. I mean impact like leadership, physical play, and dedication. Guess we'll see what goes down in a few months.

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07-14-2010, 02:41 PM
  #84
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The upside to this signing is we add a little more goon to an already goon-laden roster.


Last edited by Pwood: 07-14-2010 at 03:00 PM.
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07-14-2010, 02:59 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post

Fighting is *ing idiotic in the NHL right now, there's, quite literally, no *ing point to it. There USED to be a point to it, but now it's pretty much dead and gone. Sure, sometimes guys fight to jack their team up and whatnot, but the VAST MAJORITY of fights in the NHL are fights between two marginal players and it serves no real purpose. Particularly when you're talking about the Jody Shelleys and Eric Godards of the world...
The instigator has killed things. Without the instigator, an enforcer would still have a role. And, without it, players with skill would drop the gloves a bit more since they'd be taking, most of the time, another skilled guy out of the game.

But now about 80 percent of the time it is sheer theatrics.

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Meh. The signing is a bit puzzling, but you really can't judge any of these signings/trades until the puck drops. The only move I have any type of problem with is Shelley, but IMO, he has just as much a chance of being a nothing player on the team as he does at being an impact player. I don't mean impact player like PPG or anything like that. I mean impact like leadership, physical play, and dedication. Guess we'll see what goes down in a few months.
Yes, you can judge signings. You can judge cap hits and contract lengths.

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07-14-2010, 03:04 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
The instigator has killed things. Without the instigator, an enforcer would still have a role. And, without it, players with skill would drop the gloves a bit more since they'd be taking, most of the time, another skilled guy out of the game.

But now about 80 percent of the time it is sheer theatrics.
Yeah, especially when you're talking about true "enforcers" -- or "heavies" as they really should be called. No one in their right mind that isn't in their class, or just a goon (Cote, after all, made it a habit to get his face punched in), is going to go out there and fight 'em. There's no reason to.

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07-14-2010, 03:14 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Yes, you can judge signings. You can judge cap hits and contract lengths.
But you can't. Jody Shelley could wind up being a significant part of this team just like Lappy was. He got almost the same contract as Lappy did. At this point you can't say with any real authority that it is a bad signing. Do I like it? No, not really. But he very well could be a real nice addition to this team. I have a friend who is a die-hard Sharks fan and plenty of Rangers fans friends who all are saying how lucky they Flyers are to have this guy. Before Lappy came to the team I wasn't too psyched on him. And just like Lappy, I think Shelley is the type of player that you don't really appreciate until he is on your team. But like I said, I am not psyched on the signing, but there is no real way to judge it at this point. When all the moves are made and everything shakes out, Shelley could be solidly planted on the fourth line with Betts and Lappy, which could be a pretty tough line to play against. I am very interested to see what moves are made from this point on. Who knows, maybe Shelley will be buried in the minors. Only time will tell.

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07-14-2010, 03:20 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
But you can't. Jody Shelley could wind up being a significant part of this team just like Lappy was. He got almost the same contract as Lappy did. At this point you can't say with any real authority that it is a bad signing. Do I like it? No, not really. But he very well could be a real nice addition to this team. I have a friend who is a die-hard Sharks fan and plenty of Rangers fans friends who all are saying how lucky they Flyers are to have this guy. Before Lappy came to the team I wasn't too psyched on him. And just like Lappy, I think Shelley is the type of player that you don't really appreciate until he is on your team. But like I said, I am not psyched on the signing, but there is no real way to judge it at this point. When all the moves are made and everything shakes out, Shelley could be solidly planted on the fourth line with Betts and Lappy, which could be a pretty tough line to play against. I am very interested to see what moves are made from this point on. Who knows, maybe Shelley will be buried in the minors. Only time will tell.
...well, that's your own fault for not watching Lappy play elsewhere, no? Lappy had been an effective player for years on other teams prior to showing up here (including a 20 goal season). If you watched games from the west at all, then you knew he was a guy that could play his role on the roster, kill some penalties, etc.

Jody Shelley is a 4th liner. That's what he is. He can play that role effectively, but he's never going to be anything more than that.... just the way it is. We didn't need a player like him. We especially didn't need a player like him for 3 years (I'm actually still not a fan that we gave that much to Lappy).

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07-14-2010, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Jody Shelley is a 4th liner. That's what he is. He can play that role effectively, but he's never going to be anything more than that.... just the way it is. We didn't need a player like him. We especially didn't need a player like him for 3 years (I'm actually still not a fan that we gave that much to Lappy).
Lappy PKs, Shelley does not. I consider that a pretty necessary skill for a salary capped NHL 4th liner.

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07-14-2010, 03:27 PM
  #90
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Lappy PKs, Shelley does not. I consider that a pretty necessary skill for a salary capped NHL 4th liner.
I'm not sure it's "necessary," but it definitely carries real value. I just wish we'd signed him for 2 as opposed to 3 years.

Lappy has also been a pretty consistent 20ish+ point guy in the NHL if he plays enough games. That's a solid offensive contribution if we're talking about a true bottom 6 guy.

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07-14-2010, 03:33 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure it's "necessary," but it definitely carries real value. I just wish we'd signed him for 2 as opposed to 3 years.

Lappy has also been a pretty consistent 20ish+ point guy in the NHL if he plays enough games. That's a solid offensive contribution if we're talking about a true bottom 6 guy.
Lappy should be effective throughout his contract, especially as a PKer. Hell, Hatcher was one of the best PKers in the league when both his knees were blown out.

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07-14-2010, 03:33 PM
  #92
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Agent for Simon Gagne tells ESPN.com he's been given permission by Flyers to talk directly to teams but so far there's no deal...

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07-14-2010, 04:47 PM
  #93
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I stopped reading right about there... cuz it's pretty apparent you haven't watched a NHL game in the last 15 years.

Given that the majority of fights come early on in games off of faceoffs... the little ditty you just told is patently false. And that's before we even begin to address how ridiculous the dialog you just wrote there plays out.


There's an instigator rule. Shelley instigates a fight with Cooke... Flyers go on the PK. Godard instigates a fight with Richards... Penguins go on the PK. So, what happens? The two goons -- whose only justification for a roster spot is their willingness to fight -- fight each other just so they can show everyone that they are, in fact, willing to fight.

Fighting is *ing idiotic in the NHL right now, there's, quite literally, no *ing point to it. There USED to be a point to it, but now it's pretty much dead and gone. Sure, sometimes guys fight to jack their team up and whatnot, but the VAST MAJORITY of fights in the NHL are fights between two marginal players and it serves no real purpose. Particularly when you're talking about the Jody Shelleys and Eric Godards of the world...
first of all my dialogue was obviously just sort of joking way to simulate what happens, but that is the kind of stuff that goes on between the benches....and if a fight happens off a faceoff, its probably bc they talked about it on the benches when they were yapping back and forth....if your insinuating that the majority of fights happen within the first 3 mins of a game, before the players start getting after each other, then its pretty clear that you havent watched a game in 15 years

your penalty summary is hilarious...do you honestly believe that the flyers would let godard jump richards just so they could get a 2 minute powerplay?? or do you even believe that situation would ever go down like that?? your are the kind of guy who never played hockey and yet you know everything bc youve watched alot... you clearly have no idea how much sticking up for your teammates means to these players..your entire post is laughable

hate to be that guy, but ive played hockey at a pro level (not nhl unfortunately for me haha), and im pretty close with a dozen or so nhlers currently, so for you to tell me im wrong is hilarious to me

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07-14-2010, 04:50 PM
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cote mcgratton fight a few years back is the perfect example of the role of todays enforcer

downie killed mcammond ...mcgratton threatened downie, cote said, no you dont brian - and the big boys settled everything

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07-14-2010, 04:51 PM
  #95
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We really didn't...

Lappy 26 majors
Carcillo 17 majors
Asham 14 majors
Hartnell 7 majors
Richards 5 majors (4 fights? 1 was the hit on Booth)
Powe 2 majors
Gagne 1 major (reaction to the hit in Ottawa)
Pronger 1 major
Briere 1 major (hit in Colorado, right?)Giroux 1 major
OKT 1 major

Fighting is part of Richards game. One of those fights was answering to Booth for his hit (good on him for manning up) at that. He picks his spots. Hartnell is going to continue to go, it's part of his game... we really didn't have this problem of our "stars" dropping the gloves. The instigator has completely nullified the usefulness of the enforcer in hockey.
I think Briere actually fought in that game against Vlasic? For some reason I feel like he got two minors for that hit, but there is a strong possibility I'm wrong.

edit: Oh wait Vlasic plays for the Sharks, but it was on that road trip wasn't it?

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07-14-2010, 04:53 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
cote mcgratton fight a few years back is the perfect example of the role of todays enforcer

downie killed mcammond ...mcgratton threatened downie, cote said, no you dont brian - and the big boys settled everything
So, McGratton couldn't do anything about Downie... (because of the instigator...) and the two goons fought to no real purpose.

You know what happens if Cote isn't dressed? McGratton yells and screams into the wind and goes back to his bench.

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07-14-2010, 04:56 PM
  #97
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Don't flame me yet - I read this and now I am thinking this might be the laps signing last year?


Diagramming Jody Shelley's role with #Flyers. http://philabright.com/2010/07/13/sh...e-with-flyers/
web • 7/13/10 6:34 PM

from philabrights Twitter. Sorry for no link I'm on my iPhone
LOL. I guess Holmgren didn't catch the highlight where little ass Paul Kariya rubbed Shelley out for his 400th last year.


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07-14-2010, 04:57 PM
  #98
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first of all my dialogue was obviously just sort of joking way to simulate what happens, but that is the kind of stuff that goes on between the benches....and if a fight happens off a faceoff, its probably bc they talked about it on the benches when they were yapping back and forth....if your insinuating that the majority of fights happen within the first 3 mins of a game, before the players start getting after each other, then its pretty clear that you havent watched a game in 15 years

your penalty summary is hilarious...do you honestly believe that the flyers would let godard jump richards just so they could get a 2 minute powerplay?? or do you even believe that situation would ever go down like that?? your are the kind of guy who never played hockey and yet you know everything bc youve watched alot... you clearly have no idea how much sticking up for your teammates means to these players..your entire post is laughable
No, I just don't think Godard would jump Richards... cuz he doesn't want to put his team on a 7 minute PK when Richards doesn't answer the bell.

And the post-faceoff fight is just plain *ing idiotic. It's not about standing up for anyone. When it's Shelley v Godard it's about two guys whose entire presence in the NHL is justified by their willingness to fight... they need to fight to justify their job.

And, yes, I play hockey... still.

Quote:
hate to be that guy, but ive played hockey at a pro level (not nhl unfortunately for me haha), and im pretty close with a dozen or so nhlers currently, so for you to tell me im wrong is hilarious to me
You're wrong. Watch the games... what you're describing has been completely neutered by the instigator rule. You want to neutralize a "goon," don't have a goon yourself. Most likely event will be that the other team doesn't dress their goon because it serves no purpose.

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07-14-2010, 05:01 PM
  #99
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If goons were necessary then they'd play in the playoffs. And I like fighting. But there are plenty of guys that know how to skate, pass, and shoot that can also drop the gloves.

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07-14-2010, 05:07 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
If goons were necessary then they'd play in the playoffs. And I like fighting. But there are plenty of guys that know how to skate, pass, and shoot that can also drop the gloves.
Which is why I can't for the life of me understand why we let Ole-Kristian Tollefsen go.

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