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Jody Shelley a good signing?

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Old
07-14-2010, 05:07 PM
  #101
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
If goons were necessary then they'd play in the playoffs. And I like fighting. But there are plenty of guys that know how to skate, pass, and shoot that can also drop the gloves.
I'm not a huge fan of fighting, but I do enjoy watching a fight if it's a legitimate fight -- like the guys really, truly, are pissed off about something. I still remember a fight from a few years back between Hatcher and Souray where one (or both) of 'em had done something to piss the other off and they really went at it. I also appreciate fights that are spawned from the flow of the game...

However, the vast majority of the fights have nothing to do with anything. Riley Cote would dress... and go and fight in his limited minutes... and then go sit on the bench. He didn't fight to protect anyone the majority of the time... he went and fought because that was why he has a professional hockey contract, so that is what he did; he found the other team's fighter and fought him. I respect the courage and all, but that's just plain boring.

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07-14-2010, 05:08 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Which is why I can't for the life of me understand why we let Ole-Kristian Tollefsen go.
Paul was reading the boards, and felt it was time for Wolfy to be traded to a new board... you read that entire situation backwards.

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07-14-2010, 05:10 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not a huge fan of fighting, but I do enjoy watching a fight if it's a legitimate fight -- like the guys really, truly, are pissed off about something. I still remember a fight from a few years back between Hatcher and Souray where one (or both) of 'em had done something to piss the other off and they really went at it. I also appreciate fights that are spawned from the flow of the game...
I think Hatcher bit someone. I miss that crazy ****tard.

Also, what's going on with Belanger? He's a pretty serviceable 3rd line C. He PKs and puts up 40 points a season.

I would rather have:

JVR - Belanger - Giroux

than

JVR - Giroux - Shelley

Even if that 3rd line still wouldn't be ideal.

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07-14-2010, 05:13 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Paul was reading the boards, and felt it was time for Wolfy to be traded to a new board... you read that entire situation backwards.
Shenanigans.

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07-14-2010, 05:14 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I think Hatcher bit someone. I miss that crazy ****tard.

Also, what's going on with Belanger? He's a pretty serviceable 3rd line C. He PKs and puts up 40 points a season.

I would rather have:

JVR - Belanger - Giroux

than

JVR - Giroux - Shelley

Even if that 3rd line still wouldn't be ideal.
Don't know what Belanger's deal is. If we deal Gagne for Quick or something, and don't pick up another forward, I would love to see us do something with a 3rd line center.

In that scenario, I think I would prefer a Hartnell-3rd C-Carcillo setup. Let JVR play on more of a scoring line... and Giroux definitely needs to be up in the top 6.

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07-14-2010, 05:16 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Don't know what Belanger's deal is. If we deal Gagne for Quick or something, and don't pick up another forward, I would love to see us do something with a 3rd line center.

In that scenario, I think I would prefer a Hartnell-3rd C-Carcillo setup. Let JVR play on more of a scoring line... and Giroux definitely needs to be up in the top 6.
I think the 1st and 3rd lines are going to be in flux until we know whether Briere's line was just a fluke or if that chemistry is real. They obviously won't perform at that insane pace all season but if they are performing well there is little reason to break them up.

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07-14-2010, 05:18 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I think the 1st and 3rd lines are going to be in flux until we know whether Briere's line was just a fluke or if that chemistry is real. They obviously won't perform at that insane pace all season but if they are performing well there is little reason to break them up.
I would tend to agree, but that has to change if you bring in a real 3rd center. JVR-Giroux as wings centered by a Belanger type seems like a massive waste of talent. Whereas, if you stuck Hartnell and Carcillo around a real 3rd C it would be a pretty effective line, I'd think.

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07-14-2010, 05:22 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would tend to agree, but that has to change if you bring in a real 3rd center. JVR-Giroux as wings centered by a Belanger type seems like a massive waste of talent. Whereas, if you stuck Hartnell and Carcillo around a real 3rd C it would be a pretty effective line, I'd think.
That's true. But having a real 3rd line C in the playoffs would be huge, no matter who was on his wings. It might be a waste of talent but only until players started getting dinged up. Hartnell and Carcillo centered by a 3rd line C has the potential to be quite the ***** to play against, just so long as Hartnell didn't make too many stupid decisions.

At some point, JVR and Giroux need to take the decision out of the coach's hands and have their play demand them having more ice time.

It's really nice having more than six top-6 guys but it really disrupts the 3rd and, to a lesser extent, the 4th lines. Many choose not to understand this but the 3rd line plays a vitally important job that largely consists of a skillset that is often foreign to more skilled players.

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07-14-2010, 05:23 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Paul was reading the boards, and felt it was time for Wolfy to be traded to a new board... you read that entire situation backwards.
I knew I was missing *something*

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Old
07-14-2010, 05:24 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerEra2010 View Post
We paid him too much, but I don't hate the idea of Jody Shelley being on the roster nearly as much as a lot of people seem to.

“In two months of wearing the Blueshirt, Shelley established himself as important fabric of team.”

You've gotta like the sound of that, especially when it's coming from a NY Post writer.
I do not hate the signing either. I am not a big Brooks fan so I take what he says with a grain of salt. However I do look forward to Shelley's impact on the team. As far as the cap goes. I could give two craps. I am not a GM. Its not my problem. All I care about is having another exciting season with a chance at the big prize. The roster as it is today is not what will dress on opening night. Not until then will I pass any judgment. Can't wait.GO Flyers

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07-14-2010, 05:28 PM
  #111
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Hopefully, he has a Lappy-like impact on the team next year. Maybe him and Lappy can show Carcillo how to do his job right.

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07-14-2010, 05:42 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So, McGratton couldn't do anything about Downie... (because of the instigator...) and the two goons fought to no real purpose.

You know what happens if Cote isn't dressed? McGratton yells and screams into the wind and goes back to his bench.
he could have done a lot to downie, or worse, to somebody else

cote stepped up and answered the bell for downie, and gave the flyers a HUGE boost by winning the fight (probably his only win haha)

this is exactly why there should be no instigator, but this is also exactly why teams have fighters, to fight the battles for the other guys

i agree that a puck dropping and two guys just fighting looks staged, and lame, but i know that the majority of the time, that the guys are going at it for a reason, other than just fighting....not every thing that happens between the benches ever gets said on the broadcast or in the media...i would say we know about 5% of what goes on between the benches

fighting still has a huge purpose in the game, and i get upset when people say otherwise, bc this league has already gone incredibly soft and i know that if it were up to gay ass bettman there would be no fighting...its upsetting bc the game i love is being ruined by morons who shouldnt be running the league

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07-14-2010, 05:42 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
I'll tell you this...when we signed Shelley Rangers fans weren't happy about losing him at all.
That is true. For the short time he was there he did make a impact and was a fan a player favorite. For people who want to take fighting out of the sport, I will not make any comment for fear of getting the boot. How can someone throw out a stat that says 95% of fights are basically staged? That is pure conjecture on their part and pure BS. Now that is a fact.

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07-14-2010, 05:43 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
How can someone throw out a stat that says 95% of fights are basically staged? That is pure conjecture on their part and pure BS. Now that is a fact.
Are you ****ing serious? Even the players freely admit that.

It's so bad that the owners are even talking about it and most of them are pretty damn old school.

Also, have you watched the games?

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07-14-2010, 05:48 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BWAVgal View Post
Hopefully, he has a Lappy-like impact on the team next year. Maybe him and Lappy can show Carcillo how to do his job right.
carcillos job and lappy job arent the same thing though, but i get your point

i wish we had the phx coyotes carcillo who was just an absolute psycho...i can live with the penalites bc it was damn entertaining haha

he has been turned into a diving whining pest bc of being scared taking bad penalties, and its changed his game big time

i want the wild man carcillo back

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07-14-2010, 05:50 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
That is true. For the short time he was there he did make a impact and was a fan a player favorite. For people who want to take fighting out of the sport, I will not make any comment for fear of getting the boot. How can someone throw out a stat that says 95% of fights are basically staged? That is pure conjecture on their part and pure BS. Now that is a fact.
thats what im trying to say

sooooooo much goes on between the benches during a game that we never hear about

it bugs me when people say stuff bout staged fights bc most of the time they have no idea what actually goes on, and they just speculate...its frustrating

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07-14-2010, 06:04 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
he could have done a lot to downie, or worse, to somebody else
No, he really couldn't have without hurting his team.

Quote:
cote stepped up and answered the bell for downie, and gave the flyers a HUGE boost by winning the fight (probably his only win haha)
Debatable. But him stepping up for Downie speaks to the McGratton's inability to do anything about Downie running his teammate.

Moreover, for 500K, great lets have a guy like that... for 1.1M, shoot me.

Quote:
this is exactly why there should be no instigator, but this is also exactly why teams have fighters, to fight the battles for the other guys
Teams have pure "fighters" because the league is largely run by morons that haven't figured out that pure "fighters" are *ing useless at this point. There's been a considerable movement of late, however, towards having less pure fighters.

Quote:
i agree that a puck dropping and two guys just fighting looks staged, and lame, but i know that the majority of the time, that the guys are going at it for a reason, other than just fighting....not every thing that happens between the benches ever gets said on the broadcast or in the media...i would say we know about 5% of what goes on between the benches
The majority of the time "goons" -- i.e., heavies like Shelley and Godard -- get into two types of fights. 1) Staged fights with other heavies... which represents the majority of their fights because no one really wants to fight them other than other heavies; and 2) some up-and-coming fighter (possibly a heavy) wanting to get his bona fides.

As to fighting over trash talk between the benches... who the F cares? I mean, seriously, is that protecting Mike Richards? Nope... and, again, has nothing to do with the course of actual play or serving any real purpose other than salving wounded egos that can't think fast enough to make a witty response.

Quote:
fighting still has a huge purpose in the game, and i get upset when people say otherwise, bc this league has already gone incredibly soft and i know that if it were up to gay ass bettman there would be no fighting...its upsetting bc the game i love is being ruined by morons who shouldnt be running the league
Fighting does not have a huge purpose in the game... that's why guys whose only skill is fighting do not dress for the most important games. So, on the one hand you admit that the rules have changed and this has affected the game... on the other hand you want to strenuously advocate for the continued importance of players whose only skill is fighting.

Whether the alteration to the game is a good thing is an ENTIRELY different discussion to the real value of fighting to the game currently. Personally, I dislike the instigator and wish they would remove it from the sport. I'm not holding my breath on that, but it is something I would like to see. Until they do that, the Jodey Shelleys, Eric Godards, etc. of the world are a waste of roster/cap space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
That is true. For the short time he was there he did make a impact and was a fan a player favorite. For people who want to take fighting out of the sport, I will not make any comment for fear of getting the boot. How can someone throw out a stat that says 95% of fights are basically staged? That is pure conjecture on their part and pure BS. Now that is a fact.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

Difficult concept.

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07-14-2010, 06:06 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Are you ****ing serious? Even the players freely admit that.

It's so bad that the owners are even talking about it and most of them are pretty damn old school.

Also, have you watched the games?
Yeah, some of 'em are pretty blunt about working out fights during warm ups even.

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07-14-2010, 06:08 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, some of 'em are pretty blunt about working out fights during warm ups even.
I'd say about 20 percent of fights are legitimate. The rest are fluff.

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07-14-2010, 07:58 PM
  #120
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I like the move a lot.

Shelly will bring the niche that we didn't have last year that will make some goons think twice about going after some of our guys.

Plus how good Lenio was in the playoffs how many times did someone put him looking on the rafters.

I like the safety factor of it but also entertainment factor.

Godard, Orr, Boogie, Shelly all in the same conference, Wow!

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07-14-2010, 08:03 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Goldberg The Goalie View Post

Shelly will bring the niche that we didn't have last year that will make some goons think twice about going after some of our guys.
how so?

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07-14-2010, 08:34 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Goldberg The Goalie View Post
I like the move a lot.

Shelly will bring the niche that we didn't have last year that will make some goons think twice about going after some of our guys.


Plus how good Lenio was in the playoffs how many times did someone put him looking on the rafters.

I like the safety factor of it but also entertainment factor.

Godard, Orr, Boogie, Shelly all in the same conference, Wow!
Or not?

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07-14-2010, 09:07 PM
  #123
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how so?
People are really really really overrating the whole "But they will be scared of our players" thing. Trust me, if anything it will get the other teams guys to go harder then before.

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07-14-2010, 09:11 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Subject Orange View Post
This whole mess is questionable and at this point we'll have no idea whats going to happen until we are 20 games into the season. Even then, since its the Flyers, we may not know.

I was wrong about Carcillo, I was furious when we traded for him, but he proved me wrong. Atleast to a degree of acceptability. Right now shelly isn't acceptable. Maybe he can be. But I believe we could have gotten him for less than a million, and not for three years. That would have atleast made it less of a shock...
Still rather have Upshall....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePiousInfant View Post
He's overpaid by $200-300k, and was signed at a time when cap space was precious. Those are the reasons most fans hate the signing - otherwise, Jody Shelley is a considerable upgrade from Cote, both as a fighter and as a player. The fact that NY is upset at losing him, that he was pursued by multiple teams, and that he is apparently great in the locker room also help.

Still, this was way down the list of needs...
Should we really put any consideration into NYR being upset losing him??? They have no clue what they are doing up there

Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Shelley seems like a great character guy, etc. I'd be fine with having him...but not when we 1) overpaid him and 2) have Laperriere. Laperriere does PK, so it's a bit different, but in my mind they basically play the same basic role -- they will fight, go balls out, play with heart, and not look pretty doing it.

Also, this whole thing about Shelley playing above the 4th line is ridiculous. He shouldn't be there, and if Holmgren really has that plan, he's a ****ing moron. If he wants to go 3 scoring lines, do it. Don’t hamstring Richards or Giroux with somebody like Shelley. At least give them a chance.
Lets stop this right now...whether we like, hate, dont care about this signing, he is not even in the same league as Lappy as a hockey player. Lets not compare the two, please....Lappy used to put up good numbers in this league for a 3rd/4th line forward, can pk and doesnt hurt you out on the ice. Shelley isnt quite as bad as Cote, but he isnt really good either.

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07-14-2010, 09:12 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
People are really really really overrating the whole "But they will be scared of our players" thing. Trust me, if anything it will get the other teams guys to go harder then before.
I don't think people realize:

1) The players that don't want to fight that guy... don't have to fight that guy.

2) The guys that are out there hitting guys in many cases have a role on the team purely because they go out there and hit guys. They're not going to stop doing that, because the moment they stop doing that they stop getting a NHL salary to play hockey.

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