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Old
07-13-2010, 11:37 PM
  #26
roseyc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well, for those of you who would like to blame Erat for the loss, how about we blame the PP for the 1 for 26 or 27 effort they gave. Did that not play into the series at all?

A wise man once said, when a goal is scored, there are usually about 3 things that go wrong on any given play. First one was Erat, second was letting them get the goalie off the ice and the third was two Hawks in front of the net with only a forward to defend them.

It's a team game, we win together and lose together. If it weren't for Erat, the game would've been over long before that. We had chances to win and didn't get it done in OT. Plenty of blame all the way around. I hope the team has learned from it's mistakes and builds on it for the upcoming season. Erat was one of the reasons for that game loss. But he was not the reason for the series loss. Even if we won that game there was no guarantee that we would win game 6. The momentum would have been on our side. But with a weak power play and Trotz inability to coach a big game win: I still thought the series would go seven. But that in itself would have broken the mode that we got the series to a game 7. The pressure would have been on the Hawks.

I am very excited about the season and this team. Sometimes you have to fail to get ahead. I think the guys know what happened and want to rectify it and will have a chip on their shoulder all year long and into the playoffs until they get that monkey off their backs.

I think the coaching staff learned something as well thru all of this. Now it's time to move forward and kick some arse.
Your one two and three didn't make much sense. The play was bad but I blame Trotz.
The Erat play when he backhanded the pass basically setup the rush down the ice so that they could get the goalie off the ice which caught the Preds off guard. The turnover turned into a 3 on 1 for the Hawks. Erat was one of the blames for the game 5 loss but not the series loss. There was no guarantee that we were going to win game 6. Of course momentum was on our side. But with a weak PP I could see the Hawks winning game 6 forcing a game7


Last edited by roseyc: 07-13-2010 at 11:45 PM.
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Old
07-13-2010, 11:45 PM
  #27
glenngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
Your one two and three didn't make much sense. The play was bad but I blame Trotz.
The Erat play when he backhanded the pass basically setup the rush down the ice so that they could get the goalie off the ice which caught the Preds off guard. The turnover turned into a 3 on 1 for the Hawks
The Preds had all 5 guys in the defensive zone when the goal was scored. Ward was in front with Kane and another Hawk. Weber, Suter and Erat all went after Toews when he got the puck and then shot, the rebound came to Kane and the puck was in the net.

Here's the video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=6onW...eature=related

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07-13-2010, 11:56 PM
  #28
roseyc
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Originally Posted by darth5 View Post
Guys, I doubt we are ever going to blame Marty more than he blames HIMSELF for this. And I agree that first this should have been played more as a PK given the Preds atrocious power play and the Hawks opportunistic short handed talents. So the coaches get the first share, then Erat makes a bone-headed play, then it ie compounded on ice by a Keystone-cops tragedy of errors from virtually everybody else as well as a decent play by by Chicago, so the tide of the game, the series, and thus the Stanley Cup turns.

As a result, I like to think the whole organization burns for redemption this year. We shall see.
I agree a great post. Erat does deserve redemption and his perserverce will overcome the memory of the bad play. The bottom line is that the Hawks were a better team. You can't overcome that with an injured player and top goal scorer(Hornqvist) and pathetic power play. Weber and Suter making defensive mistakes and not playing like the stars that they were supposed to be. I think they were just worn down from all they went through during the year. Hamhuis letting Toews get behind him twice for big goals. Arnott disappearance. Wilson and Sully not scoring. The Hawks deserve some credit for that because they had a great defense. They don't now!

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07-14-2010, 12:26 AM
  #29
glenngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
I agree a great post. Erat does deserve redemption and his perserverce will overcome the memory of the bad play. The bottom line is that the Hawks were a better team. You can't overcome that with an injured player and top goal scorer(Hornqvist) and pathetic power play. Weber and Suter making defensive mistakes and not playing like the stars that they were supposed to be. I think they were just worn down from all they went through during the year. Hamhuis letting Toews get behind him twice for big goals. Arnott disappearance. Wilson and Sully not scoring. The Hawks deserve some credit for that because they had a great defense. They don't now!
They still have their top 4 from last year and their top two lines, a few of which are excellent defensive players. Not sure why you think their defense has gotten worse.

Sorry, losing Hornqvist sucked for us but if we can't sustain the loss of one player, albeit an important one, we had no business being there in the first place. Other guys needed to step up and they didn't. The PP was atrocious. Losing Hornqvist hurt for sure on the PP but to get one goal in six games is horrible. We went into the playoffs on the PP cold and it continued.

Trotz did address this issue last week at the SOTU and said he will be in charge of the PP this coming year so the buck stops with him. We'll see how it fairs.

I am taking nothing away from Chicago as they are a great team but we had them on the ropes and we let them come back. No team has ever given up a short handed goal to tie the game with less than 3 minutes in playoff history until we did. At least we have that going for us that we broke a record.

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07-14-2010, 12:41 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
The Preds had all 5 guys in the defensive zone when the goal was scored. Ward was in front with Kane and another Hawk. Weber, Suter and Erat all went after Toews when he got the puck and then shot, the rebound came to Kane and the puck was in the net.

Here's the video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=6onWWCCA-NM&feature=related
That hurts just to watch.

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07-14-2010, 01:11 AM
  #31
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Erat doesn't deserve to shoulder the entire blame, but he started the whole series of events in motion with one completely unnecessary play.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post
Oh well. I saw the brilliance in the idea, just didn't work out.
I did, too. It's pretty obvious to see what Erat was thinking. Arnott was all alone in the slot, NO ONE was within 5 feet of him. But instead of the puck going straight to Arnott, it hit the side of the net and was turned over. If Arnott gets the pass, he may have scored and that's one of the best Preds goals ever or maybe the goalie stops it and there is a faceoff.

But really there was no need to pass at all. Erat did and it was turned over, leading to....

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
The Preds had all 5 guys in the defensive zone when the goal was scored. Ward was in front with Kane and another Hawk. Weber, Suter and Erat all went after Toews when he got the puck and then shot, the rebound came to Kane and the puck was in the net.
Even then there was no reason for the Hawks to score. All someone had to do was lay down in front of the puck. Just one of Weber, Suter or Erat block the shot, not try to stick check the puck. I mean, with so little time left, tackle Toews if you have to before he shoots the puck. If they call a penalty so what, time probably would have run out before a Predator player touched the puck. Even if we did get a penalty called (it would have been a 5 on 4 with their extra man for the goalie), on the faceoff all the guy would have had to do would be fall down on top of the puck or just tie up the other faceoff guy and everyone collapse on the puck.

Just because the puck got down to our defensive end didn't mean they had to score.


Erat is definitely not the only one to be blamed.

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07-14-2010, 06:26 AM
  #32
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It's not international competition. Goal differential means nothing.

All we had to do is maintain possession...something Erat can usually do to a maddening fault. He took a risk that was completely unnecessary in putting the puck back into play. It wasn't his fault the goal itself was scored at the other end, I don't blame him for the lack of coverage off to the side of the net(a recurring theme throughout the series)

But there's one keystone event that set the whole series into motion, and that's his pass out into the slot. He shouldn't have attempted it, there's no justification. We can talk about the PP not converting to take win it for us, we can talk about defensive coverage, but none of that should have been necessary. It all comes back to a very bad decision by Erat. Should Trotz have had him out there? Maybe not...but Erat is a professional, and typically one of our best puck possession forwards. He almost uncharacteristically passed in a situation he shouldn't have, and as a result we're spending a lot of time on what-ifs.

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07-14-2010, 08:23 AM
  #33
token grinder
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after watching that a zillion times, erat had a play, he just made a bad pass. I beleive the proper play wasn't for erat to sit on the puck like i had thought all along. (i'll be honest, today was the first time re-watcherd the sequence, still makes me hurt) I think he should have just continued to send the puck around the boards. keith was tied up with ward, joews was coming down the right side of the ice in a forward position, seabrook would have been tied up with erat, and kane was skating forward outside the blueline. that puck gets sent around the boards, you have a suter vs. kane battle on the boards. I'd take my chances with that.

now when the goal happened, I think we panicked. You see arnott half slash toews up the ice and then he just follows. 3 guys collapse on toews and yeah, pekka is hung out to dry. dunno why ward wasn't tying kane up there, or keith for that matter. he hacked a second too late on kane.

no matter how you look at it, it sucked.

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07-14-2010, 11:13 AM
  #34
roseyc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
The Preds had all 5 guys in the defensive zone when the goal was scored. Ward was in front with Kane and another Hawk. Weber, Suter and Erat all went after Toews when he got the puck and then shot, the rebound came to Kane and the puck was in the net.

Here's the video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=6onW...eature=related
You are correct. The one thing I forgot about was channel 4 completely shut out the game for the weather coverage. Then when they did show it they put in a box which kinda distorted the view. When the actual goal was scored I heard it on the radio. I just saw the replays of it. But the pass by Erat enabled Chi to get the goalie off in record pace. But in the defensive zone I do remember Weber and Suter and Erat going after Toews and then Ward being frozen and the goal. It's painful.

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07-14-2010, 11:45 AM
  #35
roseyc
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
after watching that a zillion times, erat had a play, he just made a bad pass. I beleive the proper play wasn't for erat to sit on the puck like i had thought all along. (i'll be honest, today was the first time re-watcherd the sequence, still makes me hurt) I think he should have just continued to send the puck around the boards. keith was tied up with ward, joews was coming down the right side of the ice in a forward position, seabrook would have been tied up with erat, and kane was skating forward outside the blueline. that puck gets sent around the boards, you have a suter vs. kane battle on the boards. I'd take my chances with that.

now when the goal happened, I think we panicked. You see arnott half slash toews up the ice and then he just follows. 3 guys collapse on toews and yeah, pekka is hung out to dry. dunno why ward wasn't tying kane up there, or keith for that matter. he hacked a second too late on kane.

no matter how you look at it, it sucked.

I think your right. Like I said my view was distorted by the weather coverage and then watching it on replays. If Erat sends it around the boards or skate with the puck around the net. Arnott was expecting him to do that. If he would have skated with the puck around the net then Arnott would have been wide open for a great shot on net. But the pass hit the net and caroomed to Toews and disaster ensued. But I still blame Trotz for the line combos. He had Erat and Arnott and Ward as the pairing or maybe Ward was caught out at the end of the shift with Suter and Weber. But you have to think that Legwand or Goc would have been a better choice instead of trying to score just play keep away

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07-14-2010, 02:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Basher View Post
I think if he had skated it to the corner and given the puck away, they would have came down and scored anyway.
haha is this a joke? When in hockey can someone say that a team that is shorthanded and 200 feet away from the opposing net "will probably score anyway" when it's not 4 on 0 with an empty net?

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07-14-2010, 03:56 PM
  #37
ThirdManIn
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They didn't seem to have much of a problem scoring off of a bad pass that resulted in a turnover.

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07-14-2010, 04:22 PM
  #38
Drake744
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They didn't seem to have much of a problem scoring off of a bad pass that resulted in a turnover.
I doubt the Hawks on the ice would claim it was easy to score and that it would probably happen most times.

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07-14-2010, 04:56 PM
  #39
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I just think this is turning into an argument it wasn't meant to be. You're right. In most situations a team won't score a SH goal (though Niemi had been pulled so it was, for all intents and purposes, even strength) after having to travel the full length of the ice with so little time remaining. But saying something wouldn't have happened isn't any more valid than saying it would happen even if probability is on your side. We don't know what would happen in any other situation because we only saw the one. They still didn't seem to have much trouble putting one in on us.

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07-14-2010, 05:37 PM
  #40
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1. that STILL hurts to watch

2. especially given the 4 minutes of PP time that was on our clock

3. I blame Joel Ward just as much as Erat, the puck went miraculously straight through his stick blade on its way to the goal scorer standing right behind him untouched.

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07-14-2010, 05:40 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by jstreet View Post
1. that STILL hurts to watch

2. especially given the 4 minutes of PP time that was on our clock

3. I blame Joel Ward just as much as Erat, the puck went miraculously straight through his stick blade on its way to the goal scorer standing right behind him untouched.
Watch again and you'll notice Ward, A WINGER, is covering 2 guys in front of the net by himself. HE can't commit to one guy or the other. Where are the D?

It really is senseless to put blame in this situation. Plenty to go around. Bad plays and Bad luck. What can you do but move on?

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07-14-2010, 05:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Watch again and you'll notice Ward, A WINGER, is covering 2 guys in front of the net by himself. HE can't commit to one guy or the other. Where are the D?

It really is senseless to put blame in this situation. Plenty to go around. Bad plays and Bad luck. What can you do but move on?
good points!!! You can blame Erat and you can blame Ward and you can blame Weber and Suter and Arnott and Trotz and just bad luck. A painful reminder and just have to let it go only let it motivate you not deflate you.

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07-14-2010, 06:20 PM
  #43
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This is my first post since we lost. I've been in that casual-read-of-the-boards-but-not-motivated-to-post-the-the-dead-of-Summer mode. The Erat thing got me going. Martin Erat is Bill Buckner on skates. Should Buckner have been playing first on his bad wheel. Maybe not, but he made the mistake that lost the game for the Red Sox in 1986, and so did Erat in 2009.

It was dumb hockey. Forget about who was in the game, forget about the 200 feet and the other guys that had a shot at stopping the rush. Martin Erat should have turned toward the boards and protected the puck against the boards and forced the short handed team to take the puck from him. To center the puck up the slot is a mental error or enormous magnitude. No way the Hawks rush up and score if they steal the puck behind the net while Erat is against the boards. Erat enabled an odd-man rush while we were on a PP. With him out of the play, and Arnott rushing the net looking for the pass, it was a 5-on-4 going the other way with momentum by a great player.

I love Marty but he's Bill Buckner on skates.

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07-14-2010, 06:36 PM
  #44
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
This is my first post since we lost. I've been in that casual-read-of-the-boards-but-not-motivated-to-post-the-the-dead-of-Summer mode. The Erat thing got me going. Martin Erat is Bill Buckner on skates. Should Buckner have been playing first on his bad wheel. Maybe not, but he made the mistake that lost the game for the Red Sox in 1986, and so did Erat in 2009.

It was dumb hockey. Forget about who was in the game, forget about the 200 feet and the other guys that had a shot at stopping the rush. Martin Erat should have turned toward the boards and protected the puck against the boards and forced the short handed team to take the puck from him. To center the puck up the slot is a mental error or enormous magnitude. No way the Hawks rush up and score if they steal the puck behind the net while Erat is against the boards. Erat enabled an odd-man rush while we were on a PP. With him out of the play, and Arnott rushing the net looking for the pass, it was a 5-on-4 going the other way with momentum by a great player.

I love Marty but he's Bill Buckner on skates.
Go watch the video. There was no odd man rush. It was 2 on 2 going the other way. We had 5 guys back in the zone when the goal was scored. We had three guys chasing Toews who took a shot. We had one forward in the slot covering Keith and Kane. Chicago controlled the puck in our zone and our coverage broke down. Erat's pass led to the goal but it certainly wasn't the only thing that went wrong. While the mistake was made, there were still other players on the ice that could've helped right the situation.

To me, the best play that we could've made was playing 4 corners with the puck. Why limit the play to the offensive zone, spread the ice, get your best puck handlers out on the ice and play keep away. Use the entire ice. That to me was a bigger mistake than the play Erat made, the strategy involved.

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07-14-2010, 09:42 PM
  #45
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We remember the final minute but forget the crappy early play that put us down early ... then we blame Erat for a complete team failure which was repeated during OT. Multiple points of failure ... preventing any of them could have resulted in a win.

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07-15-2010, 10:59 AM
  #46
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well the simple fact is that it just doesnt matter anymore.

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07-15-2010, 12:55 PM
  #47
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I'm going with the idea that the players who helped lose the series for us were Hamhuis and Arnott. That way the demons are already exorcised. (Doesn't have to be true, just have to buy into it and cast out the voodoo.)

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07-15-2010, 01:24 PM
  #48
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Slow and soft IMO.

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07-15-2010, 02:19 PM
  #49
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Slow and soft IMO.
anyone in particular or the whole team?

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