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Free Agent Frenzy Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
07-15-2010, 09:53 PM
  #51
alpine4life
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Originally Posted by alx83 View Post
Lol. That lineup does not look good.
better than your Ducks...

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Old
07-15-2010, 09:57 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by alx83 View Post
Lol. That lineup does not look good.
That lineup is top 4 in the West.

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07-15-2010, 10:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by alx83 View Post
Lol. That lineup does not look good.
Care to go player by player between that line up and the ducks line up?

I expect Chicago to be in the mix this year ... Only a fool predicts a repeat as everyone is up to play the champs.
The best part is after that Chicago gets a 4+ million dollar cap increase plus what ever the cap goes up.

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:14 PM
  #54
NitHeel
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Originally Posted by GaryU View Post
Apparently, the wrong team won the Cup!! The Flyers have 4 Top 6 Centers (whatever that means)...I think the Hawks were just lucky...

Did anyone even come close to saying that? If so, I missed it.

The Flyers didn't lose because of their centers. That's the least of their needs. I don't think it's controversial to say that.

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:15 PM
  #55
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Hawks sure lost a ton of depth but they should still be a playoff team. It's going to be tough to re-sign Seabrook next year unless he takes a discount.

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07-15-2010, 10:56 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Did anyone even come close to saying that? If so, I missed it.

The Flyers didn't lose because of their centers. That's the least of their needs. I don't think it's controversial to say that.
Hey...I'm just trying to figure out what 4 Top 6 Centers are???? Oh, why did the Flyers lose???

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07-15-2010, 11:06 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by GaryU View Post
Hey...I'm just trying to figure out what 4 Top 6 Centers are???? Oh, why did the Flyers lose???
Four top 6 centers are Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Danny Briere and Claude Giroux.

Nobody ever said we lost the Cup because we didnt have enough depth at center. We lost because of piss poor goaltending and a 3rd defensive pair that couldnt stop ****.

We dont need Patrick Sharp, as good of a player that he is. We just dont need him.

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07-15-2010, 11:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Hawks sure lost a ton of depth but they should still be a playoff team. It's going to be tough to re-sign Seabrook next year unless he takes a discount.
Why will it be tough? Chicago gains over 4 million in cap that they won't have this year because of the bonuses Toews and Kane earned.

Seabrook already makes 3.5m. If he gets all the way to 5.5 there is still at least 2 million left (plus whatever the cap goes up for all).

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Old
07-15-2010, 11:45 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
I usually come over here for entertainment. Let's see if I can provide something entertaining.

To Kings - Hartnell, Bolland

To Hawks - JVR, Hickey

To Flyers - Sharp, Quick

I think Sharp is the best player in the deal. Hartnell and Bolland are Lombardi type players. Hawks get some temporary relief with some young guys who can play. Philly gets Sharp, and a goalie that has proven he can withstand a 70-game season. I know the Kings appear to get shafted, but I think Bolland is pretty under-rated.

This is pure fantasy of course because I don't think Quick will be moved. I also wanted to see if I could pull off a decent Kings proposal without Simmonds being involved.
This is a terrible proposal for the Hawks, not only on the obvious face of it but also organizationaly.

On the face, Sharp and Bolland are two established players, Sharp is a legit top-6 forward that can play center or either wing, PP, PK and is excellent defensively. Bolland is still growing into his offensive game but has proven to be an excellent checking center that also plays PP and PK. Both played huge roles in winning the Stanley Cup, and both have cap friendly contracts for their value.

JVR is a high draft pick with potential but hasn't proven much at the NHL level yet and Hickey is still only a prospect, albeit highly thought of.

Therefore, I value both Sharp and Bolland over either JVR or Hickey, so the proposal fails on value from Chicago's POV.

Organizationaly, the proposal is even worse. Chicago has two issues they would like to resolve through player movement - starting goaltending and getting rid of Campbell's contract (assuming Huet will be sent away and not affect the cap). This proposal doesn't address either need. Furthermore, Sharp and Bolland are the #2 and #3 centers with no one in the organization ready to step into either posistion to replace them. JVR is a winger, not a center so he will not be able to replace either Sharp or Bolland. Hickey is a defenseman - why would the Hawks need a defenseman? They have one of the best top-4 defensive corps in the league, all relatively young and signed for years and more high end prospect d-men in the pipeline than any other position with Lalonde, Olsen, Leddy and Vishnevskiy.

I don't know whether Flyer or Kings fans like this proposal or not, but feel free to trade between yourselves - just count the Hawks out of this one.

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Old
07-16-2010, 07:16 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by GaryU View Post
Hey...I'm just trying to figure out what 4 Top 6 Centers are???? Oh, why did the Flyers lose???
A top 6 center is one who plays on one of the top two lines, i.e. normally the top 6 offensive players on the team. as mentioned, richards, carter, giroux, and briere could all play 1C or 2C on a good chunk of teams not from western PA.

maybe i can't tell you exactly why the flyers lost, but not having patrick sharp definitely wasn't part of it. sorry to burst your bubble

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Old
07-16-2010, 07:34 AM
  #61
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Terrible Deal for the Blackhawks.

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Old
07-16-2010, 08:15 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
This is a terrible proposal for the Hawks, not only on the obvious face of it but also organizationaly.

On the face, Sharp and Bolland are two established players, Sharp is a legit top-6 forward that can play center or either wing, PP, PK and is excellent defensively. Bolland is still growing into his offensive game but has proven to be an excellent checking center that also plays PP and PK. Both played huge roles in winning the Stanley Cup, and both have cap friendly contracts for their value.

JVR is a high draft pick with potential but hasn't proven much at the NHL level yet and Hickey is still only a prospect, albeit highly thought of.
Therefore, I value both Sharp and Bolland over either JVR or Hickey, so the proposal fails on value from Chicago's POV.

Organizationaly, the proposal is even worse. Chicago has two issues they would like to resolve through player movement - starting goaltending and getting rid of Campbell's contract (assuming Huet will be sent away and not affect the cap). This proposal doesn't address either need. Furthermore, Sharp and Bolland are the #2 and #3 centers with no one in the organization ready to step into either posistion to replace them. JVR is a winger, not a center so he will not be able to replace either Sharp or Bolland. Hickey is a defenseman - why would the Hawks need a defenseman? They have one of the best top-4 defensive corps in the league, all relatively young and signed for years and more high end prospect d-men in the pipeline than any other position with Lalonde, Olsen, Leddy and Vishnevskiy.

I don't know whether Flyer or Kings fans like this proposal or not, but feel free to trade between yourselves - just count the Hawks out of this one.
The guy is 21 years old, was projected to be a long term project, and yet he stepped in the year and made the NHL squad. Even better, he came in around 8-10 in rookie scoring despite getting something ridiculous like the 60th most ice time out of rookies. Either way, saying that a player like JVR hasn't proven anything at the NHL level is something you should do in 2 or 3 years if you want it to have any validity.

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Old
07-16-2010, 08:31 AM
  #63
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big no from the Hawks

LA thinks but still says no


Philly would do it. Sharp over Hartnell, they have the depth to lose a player like JVR and finally get a good Goalie for cheap

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Old
07-16-2010, 08:38 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
The guy is 21 years old, was projected to be a long term project, and yet he stepped in the year and made the NHL squad. Even better, he came in around 8-10 in rookie scoring despite getting something ridiculous like the 60th most ice time out of rookies. Either way, saying that a player like JVR hasn't proven anything at the NHL level is something you should do in 2 or 3 years if you want it to have any validity.
No it is very valid right now. Nobody has said that JVR (or Hickey) will suck. Nothing like that at all. Be realistic though, in the Flyers cup run this past spring JVR was primarily in the press box because he is not (YET?) ready for a prime time role in such a situation.
If he joins this Hawk team he competes with a group of highly thought of prospects for most likely a regular 3rd line role. ... He very well could do a great job of it but ... WHO THE HELL WILL CENTER THE 2ND AND 3RD LINES?

Again it is not that the return really sucks but AT THIS MINUTE Chicago gives up the 2 best players. and creates 2 huge holes in their lineup.
Also consider that JVR if/when he pans out will be more of a scorer than true power forward. right now long term Chicago has Kane and Hossa on lines 1 and 2.

Moving on to Hickey right now Chicago has Keith, Seabrook, Campbell and Hamsammich as the top 4. Hickey may end up great but today he doesn't crack that group.

So here is what I see. Chicago a team hoping to challenge for the cup again this year gives up the 2nd and 3rd line centers (who played huge roles) on the cup winning team for guys who will most likely THIS SEASON be a good 3rd line scoring forward and a good 3rd pairing D-man.
The Hawks would enter the season with Reasoner as the 2nd line center, Dowell as the 3rd and Nathan Davis as a 4th line center. that might be good enough for some but reality is they are 4th, 4th and 5th line centers on a team that really hopes to win.

So tell me again how this deal is great for Chicago.

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Old
07-16-2010, 09:00 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by brevard View Post
No it is very valid right now. Nobody has said that JVR (or Hickey) will suck. Nothing like that at all. Be realistic though, in the Flyers cup run this past spring JVR was primarily in the press box because he is not (YET?) ready for a prime time role in such a situation.
If he joins this Hawk team he competes with a group of highly thought of prospects for most likely a regular 3rd line role. ... He very well could do a great job of it but ... WHO THE HELL WILL CENTER THE 2ND AND 3RD LINES?

Again it is not that the return really sucks but AT THIS MINUTE Chicago gives up the 2 best players. and creates 2 huge holes in their lineup.
Also consider that JVR if/when he pans out will be more of a scorer than true power forward. right now long term Chicago has Kane and Hossa on lines 1 and 2.

Moving on to Hickey right now Chicago has Keith, Seabrook, Campbell and Hamsammich as the top 4. Hickey may end up great but today he doesn't crack that group.

So here is what I see. Chicago a team hoping to challenge for the cup again this year gives up the 2nd and 3rd line centers (who played huge roles) on the cup winning team for guys who will most likely THIS SEASON be a good 3rd line scoring forward and a good 3rd pairing D-man.
The Hawks would enter the season with Reasoner as the 2nd line center, Dowell as the 3rd and Nathan Davis as a 4th line center. that might be good enough for some but reality is they are 4th, 4th and 5th line centers on a team that really hopes to win.

So tell me again how this deal is great for Chicago.
Saying Bolland is better than JVR now is like saying Betts is better than Seguin. Still, I wouldn't even come close to agreeing with your statement that Bolland is better than JVR, even though he is only a rookie. 10 times out of 10 you take the scorer with high potential over the primarily defensive forward.

Still, the Hawks are in bigger cap hell than the Flyers. You would be getting a high potential rookie on an ELC who was good this past season to take the place in the top 6. Surely Sharp will be better next year, but in the years following that could very well change. Then you get yet another high potential rookie on an ELC who could potentially fill in on your 2nd or 3rd defensive pairing this year. Losing Bolland doesn't hurt too much in that situation IMO.

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Old
07-16-2010, 09:12 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Saying Bolland is better than JVR now is like saying Betts is better than Seguin. Still, I wouldn't even come close to agreeing with your statement that Bolland is better than JVR, even though he is only a rookie. 10 times out of 10 you take the scorer with high potential over the primarily defensive forward.

Still, the Hawks are in bigger cap hell than the Flyers. You would be getting a high potential rookie on an ELC who was good this past season to take the place in the top 6. Surely Sharp will be better next year, but in the years following that could very well change. Then you get yet another high potential rookie on an ELC who could potentially fill in on your 2nd or 3rd defensive pairing this year. Losing Bolland doesn't hurt too much in that situation IMO.

Cool we agree to disagree.

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Old
07-16-2010, 09:54 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Do proposals where the Flyers don't get screwed actually exist?
They need to dump salary so they are going to just give players away.

ucwutididthere?

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