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Improving acceleration

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Old
07-15-2010, 11:08 PM
  #26
Little Nilan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobman View Post
Methinks it depends on the player.

600lb doesn't seem crazy for a very big, very strong hockey player, but I highly doubt that it's the norm. It's a great feat for sure, but I don't think it's really necessary. I recall reading somewhere that Marian Gaborik, who stands at 6'1 and tips the scale at about 190ish, can squat 500lb... and that's considered exceptional at his weight, but below average by Scotty's standards.

And even so... the ability to squat 500lb doesn't make Marian Gaborik a fantastic skater... it simply enables him to be a fantastic skater. Hockey training at the high level has moved away from the bodybuilding type training. Some people mistake this for no weightlifting at all... which is foolish. You will hurt yourself pretty badly doing plyometrics if you're not already very strong to begin with. You get strong by lifting heavy weights.
I'm pretty sure Gaborik is a 600lbs squatter. Ben Johnson was a 600lbs x 6 squatter for 2 sets(could also bench 2 reps at 407) at 178lbs. I realize though how far in front of everyone Johnson was at his sport, but it gives you a great idea of what elite level strength for speed athletes looks like. 500lbs is more than fine for sure, but I should be more precise. If I was looking to be a high level player, that is the number I would shoot for. It all depends on your goal, a 400lbs is a good goal for the OP.

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07-15-2010, 11:41 PM
  #27
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I'm going to advise working on technique more if you already have good top-speed because that indicates sufficient strength. A few keys to explosiveness, 1) stay on your toes more 2) try to keep your legs as close to the ice as possible during the start of the stride 3) repeat the motion quickly 4) practice it.

Now, there are a few physical traits that will affect you naturally in accel vs top speed. Shorter legs generally favor acceleration, longer legs generally favor top speed. Skinnier guys will, in my own experience, be more explosive but drop off a little in top speed, that's where mass kicks in.

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07-16-2010, 02:29 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
I'm pretty sure Gaborik is a 600lbs squatter. Ben Johnson was a 600lbs x 6 squatter for 2 sets(could also bench 2 reps at 407) at 178lbs. I realize though how far in front of everyone Johnson was at his sport, but it gives you a great idea of what elite level strength for speed athletes looks like. 500lbs is more than fine for sure, but I should be more precise. If I was looking to be a high level player, that is the number I would shoot for. It all depends on your goal, a 400lbs is a good goal for the OP.
I squat 225 on a good day, long way to go apparently!

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07-16-2010, 06:24 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
I'm pretty sure Gaborik is a 600lbs squatter. Ben Johnson was a 600lbs x 6 squatter for 2 sets(could also bench 2 reps at 407) at 178lbs. I realize though how far in front of everyone Johnson was at his sport, but it gives you a great idea of what elite level strength for speed athletes looks like. 500lbs is more than fine for sure, but I should be more precise. If I was looking to be a high level player, that is the number I would shoot for. It all depends on your goal, a 400lbs is a good goal for the OP.
Ben Johnson was an absolute freak though. And an illegally supplemented one at that.

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07-16-2010, 08:16 AM
  #30
WickedWrister
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I can't seem to edit my posts, but even 400 lbs is way to high of a goal for an average Joe. I'll be the realistic one and bet that half of the people posting here can't do a set of their own body weight.

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07-16-2010, 10:34 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I squat 225 on a good day, long way to go apparently!
Lots of hockey players underestimate how much they can squat, actually. All of that skating has probably built up some strong legs.

In fact, I'd be surprised if you couldn't do 2x your body weight as a single rep max. If you're not comfortable with that much weight on your spine, try it on the leg press first.

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07-16-2010, 02:22 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedWrister View Post
I can't seem to edit my posts, but even 400 lbs is way to high of a goal for an average Joe. I'll be the realistic one and bet that half of the people posting here can't do a set of their own body weight.
How many reps? Also, in fairness he is talking about what the goal would be for different levels of athlete. He's not exactly saying if you can't squat 400 then you're a bum. He's just saying that's a reasonable goal to aim for. If it took a casual lifter a couple of years to get there, what's the rush, right?

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07-16-2010, 04:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Shallow squats are something all trainers ***** about seeing people do. Ass-to-calves is great, sounds like that's exactly what you're doing. If I were you, I would look at possibly doing dead lifts with the same frequency and intensity as you're doing your squats. Nothing hits your ass muscles and whole posterior chain as hard as the deadlift (spare us the jokes everyone). And you're going to get more oomph everywhere in your stride, from beginning to end.

If you're interested, here is a decent article on how one coach improved explosive acceleration in his sprinters (who were already pretty fast, obviously) using primarily the deadlift. The good stuff doesn't show up till about halfway down the page.

http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/269/
I'd advise against going that low. It's better to keep your heels planted on the ground. If you lean forward onto the balls of your feet you're putting unnecessary strain on your knee joint.

If you're looking for explosive first steps it's half a matter of technique and half explosive strength.

Technique:
Bend your knees to about 90 degrees.
Lean forward to engage the edges of your skate blades (they've got to dig into the ice to provide traction.
Drive hard with your legs to full extension -- you're a sprinter springing off the starter blocks. Your first four or five steps you should be sprinting on your edges, not skating/gliding.

Strength:
Just realize that you're aiming for explosive leg strength. Work to improve your vertical leap moreso than total weight you can squat. Also remember that your toes will be turned outward (about 45 degrees) so you can push off on your blades. This is why building up your adductor and abductor muscles is important -- you're pushing out to the side, not straight back.

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Old
07-16-2010, 04:25 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
How many reps? Also, in fairness he is talking about what the goal would be for different levels of athlete. He's not exactly saying if you can't squat 400 then you're a bum. He's just saying that's a reasonable goal to aim for. If it took a casual lifter a couple of years to get there, what's the rush, right?
Exactly.

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07-16-2010, 05:44 PM
  #35
WickedWrister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
How many reps? Also, in fairness he is talking about what the goal would be for different levels of athlete. He's not exactly saying if you can't squat 400 then you're a bum. He's just saying that's a reasonable goal to aim for. If it took a casual lifter a couple of years to get there, what's the rush, right?

Misunderstood what you guys were saying. I was referring to a set of 10 repetitions, not just 1 rep. I don't really see the point of just doing 1 squat though.

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07-17-2010, 12:19 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
I'd advise against going that low. It's better to keep your heels planted on the ground. If you lean forward onto the balls of your feet you're putting unnecessary strain on your knee joint.

If you're looking for explosive first steps it's half a matter of technique and half explosive strength.

Technique:
Bend your knees to about 90 degrees.
Lean forward to engage the edges of your skate blades (they've got to dig into the ice to provide traction.
Drive hard with your legs to full extension -- you're a sprinter springing off the starter blocks. Your first four or five steps you should be sprinting on your edges, not skating/gliding.

Strength:
Just realize that you're aiming for explosive leg strength. Work to improve your vertical leap moreso than total weight you can squat. Also remember that your toes will be turned outward (about 45 degrees) so you can push off on your blades. This is why building up your adductor and abductor muscles is important -- you're pushing out to the side, not straight back.
That's probably really good advice actually. Ass-to-calves is just what I am used to hearing trainers yell at someone when they're doing really shallow squats, not that many people ever actually get their ass down to their heels. I think it's just something to make you go as deep in the squats as you can.

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07-17-2010, 12:24 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedWrister View Post
Misunderstood what you guys were saying. I was referring to a set of 10 repetitions, not just 1 rep. I don't really see the point of just doing 1 squat though.
The nature of the strength developed by doing maximal exertion stuff, versus working with lighter weights and more reps is different. The kind of lifts we're talking about really activate your fast twitch fibers and make for great explosive strength.

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