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07-16-2010, 03:15 PM
  #26
RangerFan10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Once again a guy Renney Valued and looked like he had a future and Torts didn't give a second look to. We have gone from the Rangers look to be building from the defense out to who not a lot of prospects on d for the Rangers.
Give me a break, he got just as much of a look from Torts as he did Renney. I don't think either of them saw anything special in this guy.

And we still have a long list of prospects on defense. "not a lot of prospects on D" is partly a result from MDZ and Gilroy graduating, with the Sangs trade as well.

McDonagh, McIlrath, Niemi, Kundtratek, Valentenko, Sauer, Pashin, Baldwin, Dowzak, Klassen, Williams. All guys I'd rather have in our system over Potter.

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07-16-2010, 03:17 PM
  #27
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So ends the New York Rangers' 2003 Entry Draft: not with a bang but a wimper.

1 Hugh Jessiman
2 Ivan Baranka
3 Kenny Roche
4 Corey Potter
5 Nigel Dawes
6 Ivan Dornic
6 Phillip Furrer
6 Chris Holt
7 Dylan Reese
8 Jan Marek


But hey, that draft helped bring over Derek Morris for 18 games. Qapla'!!!!

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07-16-2010, 03:22 PM
  #28
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Dawes got us a couple game winners, Baranka might have been an NHL defenseman but, nothing to blame on poor scouting there.

But a pretty forgettable draft.

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07-16-2010, 03:22 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
So ends the New York Rangers' 2003 Entry Draft: not with a bang but a wimper.

1 Hugh Jessiman
2 Ivan Baranka
3 Kenny Roche
4 Corey Potter
5 Nigel Dawes
6 Ivan Dornic
6 Phillip Furrer
6 Chris Holt
7 Dylan Reese
8 Jan Marek


But hey, that draft helped bring over Derek Morris for 18 games. Qapla'!!!!
What an absolutely awful draft. Jesus Christ.

Also, didn't the rights to Jan Marek go to Los Angeles in the Avery deal?

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07-16-2010, 03:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
What an absolutely awful draft. Jesus Christ.

Also, didn't the rights to Jan Marek go to Los Angeles in the Avery deal?
They did, good point. Avery for Ward, Cliche, and Marek.

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07-16-2010, 03:32 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
So ends the New York Rangers' 2003 Entry Draft: not with a bang but a wimper.

1 Hugh Jessiman
2 Ivan Baranka
3 Kenny Roche
4 Corey Potter
5 Nigel Dawes
6 Ivan Dornic
6 Phillip Furrer
6 Chris Holt
7 Dylan Reese
8 Jan Marek


But hey, that draft helped bring over Derek Morris for 18 games. Qapla'!!!!

By far the best player we got and he will never play in the NHL. Figures Rangers! I remember how management was saying for this draft it was the best one in a while and how we had to get players for the team with our 1st and 2nd rounders. Well he did not get one player for the team in 8 picks unless you consider Dawes a success story.

Regarding Baranka I did notice the Rangers website has him in the system still. Any chance he decides to come back to give the NHL a try in the future?

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07-16-2010, 03:34 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
They did, good point. Avery for Ward, Cliche, and Marek.
Was that Jason Ward? Is he even still in the league? And MA Cliche sucks. Injury problems and just isn't that good. I liked him a lot, but I was totally wrong there.

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07-16-2010, 03:34 PM
  #33
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Kenny Roche. Remember when MSG did those Blueshirt draft specials? I think it was Renney talking to Maloney when he said "congratulations on getting Roche". Apparently was thought of as a steal?

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07-16-2010, 03:36 PM
  #34
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Yeah, Shaggy played only 7 games for the Kings after that deal before being flipped to Tampa bay for this guy http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=99556. He played last season in the AHL, which is probably where he should have been all along.

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07-16-2010, 03:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
By far the best player we got and he will never play in the NHL. Figures Rangers! I remember how management was saying for this draft it was the best one in a while and how we had to get players for the team with our 1st and 2nd rounders. Well he did not get one player for the team in 8 picks unless you consider Dawes a success story.

Regarding Baranka I did notice the Rangers website has him in the system still. Any chance he decides to come back to give the NHL a try in the future?
We still own his rights, and will as long as he stays there. Just like Ilja Gorokhov, who we picked in 1995 I think. But it's extremely unlikely Baranka comes back. If I recall, he signed a new contract there just last year.

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07-16-2010, 04:30 PM
  #36
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2003 Draft had nothing good going for it.
I mean, who are Ryan Getzlaf, Mike Richards, Corey Perry, Brent Burns, Eric Fehr, Zach Parise, Patrick Eaves, Dustin Brown, Jeff Tambellini, Shea Weber, Brent Seabrook and Patrice Bergeron anyway.

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07-16-2010, 04:35 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
We still own his rights, and will as long as he stays there. Just like Ilja Gorokhov, who we picked in 1995 I think. But it's extremely unlikely Baranka comes back. If I recall, he signed a new contract there just last year.
i mean Gorokhov is 32, he should come to the NHL, his time is running out, maybe he can be Ronnie Sundin play one game and go back but hey at least he can say he played in the NHL. why draft these type of players?? during the interview process dont they ask the player if they will come to north america???

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07-16-2010, 09:50 PM
  #38
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Honestly, I can't think about 2003 without feeling a ton of agita.

It drives me insane.

I want to punch things.

I can't. I just can't.

It's so frustrating.

I can.t

I hate.

This organization.

So.


Much.

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07-16-2010, 10:11 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
and the rich get richer...
what? This is Potter not Phaneuf u know.

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07-17-2010, 02:23 AM
  #40
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Hindsight is 20/20. You'd think some people never head that cliche around here. Forget that every year since '03 IMO we've had excellent drafts.

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07-17-2010, 02:24 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Honestly, I can't think about 2003 without feeling a ton of agita.

It drives me insane.

I want to punch things.

I can't. I just can't.

It's so frustrating.

I can.t

I hate.

This organization.

So.


Much.
then go root for the Islanders, they draft well.

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Old
07-17-2010, 02:34 AM
  #42
-31-
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Originally Posted by HeaveHo94 View Post
what? This is Potter not Phaneuf u know.
kidding, of course.

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Old
07-17-2010, 03:48 AM
  #43
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that 03 draft was brutal i mean really hugh jessiman? just terrible drafting but since then we have done pretty well but that draft set us back a couple of years... imagine having Getzlaf and Gabby playing together? legit #1 center, who needs one of those when you can get Hugh Jessiman? They made the best decision possible right?

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07-17-2010, 04:15 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I hate.

This organization.

So.

Much.
Give it two years, let's see where Grachev, kreider, Stepan, McD, MDZ, Artie, Mcllrath, are in two years.

If I remember right the scouts who drafted those guys weren't the same ones from 2003 so it's wrong to make such a broad statement. You can hate on the fools responsible for buying Drury, Gomez,Higgins, Kotalik, Brashear and Redden...but then praise them for Gabs and uh....hmmm well that brings us to this universally agreed on point...fire sather and keep Clark and the amateur scouts.

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07-17-2010, 07:13 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
that 03 draft was brutal i mean really hugh jessiman? just terrible drafting but since then we have done pretty well but that draft set us back a couple of years... imagine having Getzlaf and Gabby playing together? legit #1 center, who needs one of those when you can get Hugh Jessiman? They made the best decision possible right?
Yeah, I try to just block out the 2003 draft out of my mind.

Jessiman instead of Brown, Parise, Getzlaf, Seabrook, Perry, or Richards.

Baranka instead of Backes.

Roche, Potter, Dawes, Dornic, Furrer, Holt, Reese, and Marek.

Nothing out of that draft. I mean Marek was part of the trade for Avery. Dawes was traded for Morris the rental, who didn't do much. Just two borderline NHL players from that draft.

I'd say this is where the organizations development took the biggest hit. If they took one of those guys in the first round instead of Jessiman, the make-up of this team would be entirely different.

Say they draft Getzlaf instead of Jessiman. Then in the summer of 2007, the Rangers do not go out and sign both of Drury and Gomez. Let's say they just sign Drury to his current contract and use the money to sign a D-man, let's say Rafalski (Who signed a 5 year $30 million contract). Then during the summer of 2008, the Rangers wouldn't have had to go out and try to sign Redden. Then in the summer of 2009 They signed Gaborik. Lot's of "if's", but it's crazy what one draft could cause such ripple effects in later years.

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07-17-2010, 10:51 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Hindsight is 20/20.
Hindsight? It seems to me this is the way you judge a draft. You wait the years it takes to play out, and you come to a decision as to whether or not it was successful. If you have another method for judging the quality of a draft - other than what you're choosing to call "hindsight" - by all means let's hear it.

In any case, it's certainly not hindsight for those here who slagged the Jessiman pick at the time.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You'd think some people never head that cliche around here.
Oh I doubt that. Fanboys drop that particular phrase all the time when they want to end a conversation that offends them.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Forget that every year since '03 IMO we've had excellent drafts.
1. The current team is what it is because of hideous drafting at the beginning of the decade. It's pretty hard to forget bad drafts when the team is missing the playoffs in part because of those bad drafts.

2. I take it you don't mind if some of us withold judgment on these "excellent drafts" that have yet to yield an NHLer? Or those of us who think a draft that yielded us Lauri Korpikoski and Al Montoya in the first round (not to mention exactly one quality NHLer from a collection of EIGHT picks in the first three rounds) do not reach a real standard of "excellence"?

3. Save your red herring. The quality or lack of quality in subsequent drafts has nothing to do with the draft of 2003.


Last edited by dedalus: 07-17-2010 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
07-17-2010, 11:48 AM
  #47
RangerFan10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Hindsight? It seems to me this is the way you judge a draft. You wait the years it takes to play out, and you come to a decision as to whether or not it was successful. If you have another method for judging the quality of a draft - other than what you're choosing to call "hindsight" - by all means let's hear it.

In any case, it's certainly not hindsight for those here who slagged the Jessiman pick at the time.


Oh I doubt that. Fanboys drop that particular phrase all the time when they want to end a conversation that offends them.


1. The current team is what it is because of hideous drafting at the beginning of the decade. It's pretty hard to forget bad drafts when the team is missing the playoffs in part because of those bad drafts.

2. I take it you don't mind if some of us withold judgment on these "excellent drafts" that have yet to yield an NHLer? Or those of us who think a draft that yielded us Lauri Korpikoski and Al Montoya in the first round (not to mention exactly one quality NHLer from a collection of EIGHT picks in the first three rounds) do not reach a real standard of "excellence"?
We got Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan in 2004....still have Dane Byers.

We got Staal in 2005, Sauer and Dupont are still in the system, Tom Pyatt was in the Gomez deal that brought Valentenko and McDonagh over, MA Cliche was in the Sean Avery deal.

2006 We got a 2nd rounder and another prospect for Sangs. Artem Anisimov is already an NHLer, now it's time to see what his ceiling is.

2007 is a bit of a wash, Cherapanov's death is bad luck and all you can wonder is what if? Imagine he panned out and was our 2nd line RWer by now? Lafleur was an awful pick, then we didn't pick again until the 4th round. Hagelin's a pretty highly regarded prospect though.

2008 yielded another NHLer already in Del Zotto. He's established himself where others at his position picked before him haven't (although the Rangers were helped by a deep draft on defense...Doughty, Bogosian, Schenn, Pietrangelo, Myers). Derek Stepan is already one of our top 3 prospects, Grachev as well, Kundtratek is still considered someone that's on track for the NHL, Dale Weise could crack the 4th line this season and looked good in limited action last year...


And I think what's funny is that you say that's how you judge a draft, but at the time of these drafts so many of the picks the Rangers made could have and were great picks in the eyes of many. Sanguinetti was the perfect example of this.

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07-17-2010, 01:47 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
We got Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan in 2004....still have Dane Byers.

We got Staal in 2005, Sauer and Dupont are still in the system, Tom Pyatt was in the Gomez deal that brought Valentenko and McDonagh over, MA Cliche was in the Sean Avery deal.

2006 We got a 2nd rounder and another prospect for Sangs. Artem Anisimov is already an NHLer, now it's time to see what his ceiling is.

2007 is a bit of a wash, Cherapanov's death is bad luck and all you can wonder is what if? Imagine he panned out and was our 2nd line RWer by now? Lafleur was an awful pick, then we didn't pick again until the 4th round. Hagelin's a pretty highly regarded prospect though.

2008 yielded another NHLer already in Del Zotto. He's established himself where others at his position picked before him haven't (although the Rangers were helped by a deep draft on defense...Doughty, Bogosian, Schenn, Pietrangelo, Myers). Derek Stepan is already one of our top 3 prospects, Grachev as well, Kundtratek is still considered someone that's on track for the NHL, Dale Weise could crack the 4th line this season and looked good in limited action last year...
I can't help but laugh that my final point was that you should save your red herring ... and then you immediately post nothing but a continuation of your red herring.

More humorous still is that you question others for using "hindsight" to evaluate past failures ... and then you offer the same "hindsight" to evaluate past successes.

So which is it? Are we allowed to talk about the past or not? Or are you saying that failures are mere "hindsight" but successes are current and important? Because right now it seems you rather want it both ways: You want to laud the "excellence" of the 2004 draft, but if a critique of the 2003 draft is offered, well, that's just "hindsight."

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
And I think what's funny is that you say that's how you judge a draft, but at the time of these drafts so many of the picks the Rangers made could have and were great picks in the eyes of many.
Exactly my point. Everybody's a winner on draft day because everbody gets a bunch of prospects they think have a chance of making it to the NHL ... otherwise they wouldn't have drafted the kids they did. Only time and the judgment of history will actually tell us whether and to what degree a draft is successful. That's something that's as true of the 2010 draft as it is for the 2003. Time has yielded its final judgment on the class of 2003 where the Rangers are concerned. We can now render a fair and complete verdict on that draft ... even if such a verdict offends some fans.

As an extension of my first point, one interesting fan behavior is this: when picks ARE critiqued on draft day (as happened with Jessiman) there are always those who leap about and say "You can't do that!!! It takes FIVE years to find out about these players!!!!!!" (As happened with Jessiman)

And when, five years or more later, these drafts are revisited and critiqued, it is inevitably those who once screamed "You can't judge NOOOOOOOWWWWWW!" who begin to scream "That's old news! That's beating a dead horse! That's just hindsight!" (As is happening at this very moment.)

Isn't it funny how things work sometimes?

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Old
07-17-2010, 02:21 PM
  #49
RangerFan10
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I love your posts. You try to sound like some sort of intellectual and essentially say at least 2 or 3 times in each post things like "I find it funny.." "Most humorous about your post.." and instead of engaging in an actual debate you'd rather just flame what I've got to say and call me a fan boy. Is there a reason you're so hostile about something so futile as a topic on a message board? Not hugged enough as a child?

You wanna sit here and tell me that we're awful in drafts based solely on 2003, then try and tell me 2004 was awful and throw an incorrect fact out there that we only got one legitimate NHLer in that draft, when we got both Dubinsky and Callahan, one top 6 player and another that looks as though he'll be a perennial 20 goal scorer that kills penalties, can contribute on the powerplay and will probably dawn the C on his chest sooner than later in his career whether it's here or elsewhere.

I'm not naive, I realize we're awful right now in part because of how bad we flopped in the draft in the past. I didn't say it's OK that we didn't produce anything in the 2003 draft. I just find it pointless to sit here and talk about it when we've been able to have successful drafts or what look to be promising drafts since.

When you've got guys coming straight to the NHL out of juniors and producing like we've had in Staal and Del Zotto, I don't know how you can't think we're at least doing OK in the draft. If you can't see that, then good riddance, join the other doomsday guy that "hates this franchise" and go root for the islanders, they seem to draft pretty well and as everyone can see it's done them wonders. Then again, they didn't do well in 2003 so...

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07-17-2010, 03:14 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Baranka instead of Backes.
to make it worst we traded down to add a 3rd so we could get roche too...with our original 2nd rounder we could have taken bergeron or shea weber DOH

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