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Corey Potter Signs With Penguins

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Old
07-17-2010, 03:19 PM
  #51
Fitzy
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pft, Callahan isnt a real NHLer

Its not like every team in the league wants him or anything.

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07-17-2010, 03:41 PM
  #52
CM PUNK
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not really sure what drafting better recently has to do with how good or bad the 2003 draft was, but while the recent drafts have appeared very solid so far i think we have a long way to go before declaring them success because there have been other drafts that looked great shortly after and turned out to be crap...

i remember the days of talking about how awesome the rangers were going to be once garth murray, bryce lampman, fedor tyutin, ivan baranka, maxim kondratiev, jarkko immonen, jake taylor, al montoya, lauri koriposki, nigel dawes, hugh jessiman, darin olver, bruce graham, etc all developed...we are gonna be SO AWESOME

and each guy was the greatest thing ever until the next new shiny prospect comes along and bumps the guy down the list and we forget about him, and then that new guy gets replaced by another prospect and on and on as none of them amount to anything...

just like everyone else i hope that in 2-3 years we see stepan, kreider, grachev, hagelin, mcdonagh, mcilrath, etc in ny along with dubinsky, AA, callahan, staal, del zetto, etc and at that point maybe we can all finally forget about the horrible drafting of the past and finally move on from the nightmares. but if those guys don't make it and end up bust then those drafts really aren't much better then the ones before them

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07-18-2010, 01:48 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
not really sure what drafting better recently has to do with how good or bad the 2003 draft was, but while the recent drafts have appeared very solid so far i think we have a long way to go before declaring them success because there have been other drafts that looked great shortly after and turned out to be crap...

i remember the days of talking about how awesome the rangers were going to be once garth murray, bryce lampman, fedor tyutin, ivan baranka, maxim kondratiev, jarkko immonen, jake taylor, al montoya, lauri koriposki, nigel dawes, hugh jessiman, darin olver, bruce graham, etc all developed...we are gonna be SO AWESOME

and each guy was the greatest thing ever until the next new shiny prospect comes along and bumps the guy down the list and we forget about him, and then that new guy gets replaced by another prospect and on and on as none of them amount to anything...

just like everyone else i hope that in 2-3 years we see stepan, kreider, grachev, hagelin, mcdonagh, mcilrath, etc in ny along with dubinsky, AA, callahan, staal, del zetto, etc and at that point maybe we can all finally forget about the horrible drafting of the past and finally move on from the nightmares. but if those guys don't make it and end up bust then those drafts really aren't much better then the ones before them
Well, while I think people are definitely too fixated on assuming Stepan, Kreider, Grachev, McDonagh, Valentenko, Weise, Byers, etc. are going to pan out for us, I think there's a lot more guys on the team that have made it, at least to the point where you can safely say the odds of them not being some sort of NHL player for a long time are slim to none. Those players are Staal, Del Zotto, Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Girardi, Lundqvist. They all came up through our system.

So if just one forward and one defenseman pan out, you can't really complain at all because then you're looking at 4 top 9 forwards and 4 top 4 defenseman that came out of our system dating back to 2005, along with an elite goaltender.

And while things didn't pan out, we turned Tyutin into Zherdev as well.

The only homegrown guys I wish we got more for were Petr Prucha and Dominic Moore.

That breakdown is as simple as it can get, and especially considering we haven't picked top 10 until this year since 2003 - the problem doesn't really lie in the drafts, and looking at the trades we've made that isn't it either. Free agency and our overspending habits on the wrong guys has killed us. Hopefully we can fix that in the next few seasons and build a true contender.

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Old
07-18-2010, 08:33 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You try to sound like some sort of intellectual and essentially say at least 2 or 3 times in each post things like "I find it funny.." "Most humorous about your post.."
Sorry, friend. That's not me trying to sound like an intellectual. That's me laughing at you.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
instead of engaging in an actual debate you'd rather just flame what I've got to say and call me a fan boy. Is there a reason you're so hostile about something so futile as a topic on a message board? Not hugged enough as a child?
See anything funny here? You should. For at least two reasons.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You wanna sit here and tell me that we're awful in drafts based solely on 2003
Strawman.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
then try and tell me 2004 was awful and throw an incorrect fact out there that we only got one legitimate NHLer in that draft, when we got both Dubinsky and Callahan, one top 6 player and another that looks as though he'll be a perennial 20 goal scorer that kills penalties, can contribute on the powerplay and will probably dawn the C on his chest sooner than later in his career whether it's here or elsewhere.
Actually you'll see that I talked about none of those things in my last post, namely because I refuse to further chase your red herring.

Also you'll need to re-read my post more carefully. You'll find an error in your statement above.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I realize we're awful right now in part because of how bad we flopped in the draft in the past. I didn't say it's OK that we didn't produce anything in the 2003 draft. I just find it pointless to sit here and talk about it when we've been able to have successful drafts or what look to be promising drafts since.
Thank you. You could not have more beautifully presented the contradiction of your first and all subsequent posts.

You acknowledge that the current team's failures are a product of the past: you actually STATE the relevance of that draft to the team right now, today. You immediately move on to dismiss discussion of it as "pointless," (presumably because it's an incidence of mere "hindsight"). Do you see the problem with this thinking? It cannot be both "pointless" and pertinent to this team at the same time.

So let's get down to brass tacks. You dismiss the things you don't wish to discuss as products of mere "hindsight" because they are historical examinations of a bad thing: Ranger failure. You find it "pointless" to discuss these failures, but you find it "pointless" and "hindsighted" for one reason: you simply don't want people to talk about Ranger failures.

If I used "hindsight" to talk about Ranger successes - as you have done - you would have no issues with "hindsight." We know this because you have actually used such "hindsight" to discuss these successes. We know you would think it "had a point," because you yourself have made this point.

So what your posts are really saying is nothing more than "Shut up! Only talk about GOOD things! Anything else is pointless and hindsighted ... even if it directly relates to the current team's fortunes."

Understand, you are free to say what you wish, but when you try to couch "Shut up" in artificial language and logical fallacies, I'm going to comment on it.

Now if you'd like to talk about Corey Potter and the draft that produced him, feel free. That's what I've been talking about. If you're going to insist on this red herring of other drafts, I'm going to continue to ignore it since I have no desire to honor your logical fallacy.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
When you've got guys coming straight to the NHL out of juniors and producing like we've had in Staal and Del Zotto, I don't know how you can't think we're at least doing OK in the draft.
Strawman.

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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
good riddance, join the other doomsday guy that "hates this franchise"
Ad hominem

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Old
07-18-2010, 08:40 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
pft, Callahan isnt a real NHLer

Its not like every team in the league wants him or anything.
You didn't actually ... like ... READ the post on which you're indirectly commenting, did you?

You should. It can save the embarrassment of painfully obvious response errors.

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07-18-2010, 08:47 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
not really sure what drafting better recently has to do with how good or bad the 2003 draft was
It doesn't.

RangerFan10 seems to be engaged in an extended attempt to divert the discussion from the failure of the 2003 draft to other topics more savory to him. Of course, switching the topic doesn't actually address the topic, which is how he is also engaged in a extended logical fallacy.

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Old
07-18-2010, 09:42 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
then go root for the Islanders, they draft well.
I thought it was pretty obvious, seeing how in the very first sentence of my post, I wrote "The 2003 Draft really give me a lot of agita".

My comment had to do exclusively with that in this instance (not that I don't hate it for other reasons).

I'm not sure how anyone can look back at the 2003 draft and just dismiss it like whatever because we've apparently had some good drafts since then.

When you look at that draft class it is no freakin' wonder why this organization is not an upper echelon team.

Why you feel the need to dismiss it is beyond me.

You said in one of your other posts how we shouldn't worry about that draft cause others have been good. Right. Besides the fact that dedalus has already torn your argument (or lack there of one) to shreds, it's simply idiotic to think that way. Especialy when you consider the type of bonafide NHL talent that was taken and that we had the opportunity for.

Can you do that with all drafts? Absolutely. But you'll be hard pressed to find a draft early on that was so dynamic you could've screwed up your pick ten different ways and still end up with a stud NHL'er.

It's also important to note that I didn't bring this up randomly for no reason. Maybe then you'd have a right to say hey well what about these other ones. This thread is about Corey Potter. Who was the last man standing from that draft. Discussing that draft now that there's nothing left seems entirely appropriate.

Of course we couldn't even do that, and had to make just the worst possible selection.

If you really want a feel and understanding of a big part of this organization's problem, it's almost more important to look at a draft like this and understand the crippling effect it can really have on you.


I'll never understand the "go root for this team then" argument. Not that that's an argument at all but I still don't understand it.

Some of us are loyal to our core. I will always love the Rangers. That doesn't mean I'm not going to criticize them when they do something wrong.

It's amazing to me there's actually people out there who think the appropriate thing to do is ignore what's gone wrong.

Loyal does not mean blind. What a foolish approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
Give it two years, let's see where Grachev, kreider, Stepan, McD, MDZ, Artie, Mcllrath, are in two years.

If I remember right the scouts who drafted those guys weren't the same ones from 2003 so it's wrong to make such a broad statement. You can hate on the fools responsible for buying Drury, Gomez,Higgins, Kotalik, Brashear and Redden...but then praise them for Gabs and uh....hmmm well that brings us to this universally agreed on point...fire sather and keep Clark and the amateur scouts.
Again, my post was in reference to the 2003 draft. Which my opinion on will not change. This organization botched it big time.

I understand we've got some potential in the system. My loathing of the organization was in reference to '03 specifically. Sorry for the confusion.


Last edited by ruckus*: 07-18-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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Old
07-18-2010, 10:10 AM
  #58
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I know some Rangers fans think that discussing the 2003 draft is beating a dead horse, but it is hard to move on from it, especially with Richards and Parise playing in the division. Whenever we play against them, it is a reminder of the massive failure that was the 2003 draft, and unfortunately it will haunt us for awhile.

Ir's just hard to believe that the Rangers couldn't make at least one good pick in that draft. There was some real good talent throughout the draft. Pavelski, Byfuglien, Enstrom drafted in the later rounds. Thus far, our best draft pick from 2003 is Nigel Dawes, who may not even have a future in the NHL. Sad.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:08 PM
  #59
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Goodbye, bum.
Why is he a bum?

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:09 PM
  #60
CM Lundqvist
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I love discussions about the 03 draft. That was the 3rd draft in which I followed as much as I could, from THN's Draft Preview, to sites online, to anything I could find on TV, few and far between. As for me, I can say the one player I wanted right off the bat was Parise. As someone who has been a Fighting Sioux fan for a while, and has watched guys like Parise, Stafford, Murray, Bochenski, Toews, Duncan, Bina, Lamoreaux, etc. go through their program, I thought Parise was a player that would have fit the Rangers perfectly. I honestly didn't think much of Richards or Getzlaf back then, as Getzlaf had big issues with his skating, and Richards offensively had some questions. Parise was the one guy I wanted that I thought would have been realistically obtainable from the mock drafts I was reading. Obviously Staal was the guy I thought was the best player in the draft, but I knew we had no shot at him, and I wanted the Rangers to trade up for Phaneuf.

I, like most of us Rangers fans get disappointed, because even back then, even though I didn't know a whole lot about College Hockey at the time, I knew enough to be able to tell you that Jessiman was a huge gamble, and I knew that the ECAC was arguably the weakest, if not the weakest conference in all of NCAA hockey. To take a chance on a kid based off of one college season in a weak conference is just outrageous, especially when we weren't in a position to be taking home run swings like that, when our organizational depth was as deep as an inflatable kiddie pool.

Edit: I think when you take a look back on those factors, there are LOTS of reasons to be mad. It's not just that Parise, Getzlaf, Richards, and Perry all panned out, it was like going to Vegas when you have almost no money to your name, and gambling it away.

Bottom Line: It's not so much the result as it is the principal of it all.


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Old
07-19-2010, 11:14 AM
  #61
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I'm not even that impressed with the Isles draft selections either. Okposo and Bailey? There's no one in the farm or on the team that can play with these two guys?

Our defense blows there's away (including goal). How you trade Luongo IDK...But Dipietro has a chip on his shoulder all the time and he's injury prone. They should have went with Fowler or Gormley instead of Neiderreiter IMO (IDK how good Niemi is going to be but he could wind up being an important loss to the arch rival enemy. So that leaves De Haan! Maybe. They were forced to make that choice with no one else promising back there. He's no where near where Staal is and probably never will be.)

In 2003, we picked Jessiman, and they chose Nilsson .

Both teams should be ashamed and I hope Maloney never comes back to this organization again. In no way do I feel with Clarke running the draft he would have selected "Uselessman."

Eventually the Islanders couldn't miss (although like I was saying, If they wound up with Hedman, it wouldn't have been exactly tragic). Selecting Hedman, Seabrook (could have snagged him) Fowler and Kulikov would make the Islanders future look more promising (imo). It takes "D" men a while to fully develop (Staal hasn't even done that yet) but it pays off in the long run.

I'm just saying, I've seen a few posts already, where people are praising the Islanders "spects," while being told to take the "homer blinders" off. How is it that obvious. I don't see it. Because of Okposo and Josh Bailey!

Tavares is going to be a great player no question. But he's not in the same league as Alex O, or Crosby. They compare him to Phil Esposito who was no slouch. But he did have one of, if not the greatest player to ever play the game, feeding him pucks.


It's tough putting that 03' draft behind when all of those good players could have been gotten. And to a lesser extent, we've could have done much better in 04' as well. Instead, the Devils come away with Zajac and Parise.

Top 5 picks are wonderful. But top notch scouting is even better. And since 05' it improved dramatically, I think. For instance, I have much more faith in Kreider and Stephen than I did with Korpikoski and Lee Falardeau, Alex Bourret....etc.

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07-19-2010, 11:53 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
I'm not even that impressed with the Isles draft selections either. Okposo and Bailey? There's no one in the farm or on the team that can play with these two guys?

Our defense blows there's away (including goal). How you trade Luongo IDK...But Dipietro has a chip on his shoulder all the time and he's injury prone. They should have went with Fowler or Gormley instead of Neiderreiter IMO (IDK how good Niemi is going to be but he could wind up being an important loss to the arch rival enemy. So that leaves De Haan! Maybe. They were forced to make that choice with no one else promising back there. He's no where near where Staal is and probably never will be.)

In 2003, we picked Jessiman, and they chose Nilsson .

Both teams should be ashamed and I hope Maloney never comes back to this organization again. In no way do I feel with Clarke running the draft he would have selected "Uselessman."

Eventually the Islanders couldn't miss (although like I was saying, If they wound up with Hedman, it wouldn't have been exactly tragic). Selecting Hedman, Seabrook (could have snagged him) Fowler and Kulikov would make the Islanders future look more promising (imo). It takes "D" men a while to fully develop (Staal hasn't even done that yet) but it pays off in the long run.

I'm just saying, I've seen a few posts already, where people are praising the Islanders "spects," while being told to take the "homer blinders" off. How is it that obvious. I don't see it. Because of Okposo and Josh Bailey!

Tavares is going to be a great player no question. But he's not in the same league as Alex O, or Crosby. They compare him to Phil Esposito who was no slouch. But he did have one of, if not the greatest player to ever play the game, feeding him pucks.


It's tough putting that 03' draft behind when all of those good players could have been gotten. And to a lesser extent, we've could have done much better in 04' as well. Instead, the Devils come away with Zajac and Parise.

Top 5 picks are wonderful. But top notch scouting is even better. And since 05' it improved dramatically, I think. For instance, I have much more faith in Kreider and Stephen than I did with Korpikoski and Lee Falardeau, Alex Bourret....etc.
On D they also have Travis Hamonic who is going to be a good player.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:58 PM
  #63
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Getting back on topic here:

I have to admit that I've never been a big Potter fan. He always seemed to be like a tweener, maybe a bottom pairing guy.

I never understood what some people saw in him. An older prospect who never really wowed me at any level.

Having said that, I wish him well.

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