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Old
07-18-2010, 03:06 PM
  #1
CerpinTaxt
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Carter to LW

The topic was touched upon in the Gagne thread, and then I read this on yahoo.

Quote:

If the Flyers trade Simon Gagne, it will leave a gaping hole at left wing on a team loaded with centers but short on wingers. Right now, the Flyers figure to start the season with Mike Richards, Danny Briere, Claude Giroux and Blair Betts as their four centers. That leaves center Jeff Carter a likely candidate to move to the left wing on a top line with Richards and Nikolai Zherdev.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/phi/report


It seems like an interesting thing that could be experimented with during pre-season. Of course, this is if Gagne is being traded. So, just thought I'd make a new thread for people to discuss.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:09 PM
  #2
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Carter-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Carcillo?
Shelley-Betts-Lappy

Hmm.

As good as that Briere/Leino/Harts thing was in the playoffs, both Briere and Hartnell have the propensity to straight up disappear and we only have a small sampling of Leino. And I don't see Roo/JVR picking up massive slack just yet.

So basically, experiment with it, but if it doesn't work, change it fast.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:11 PM
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I honestly think Hartnell, Briere, and Leino are all playoff performers and are going to come back to reality soon.


Gagne used to be a center too btw, so Carter = Gagne 2.0?

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:12 PM
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Carter really isnt that good at wing. He just plays way better as a C

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07-18-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaShark 666 View Post
Carter really isnt that good at wing. He just plays way better as a C
This is true, but I feel like if he came into camp figuring to be a LW then he'd have a lot more time to adjust rather than just being thrown in for a random game or 2.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:16 PM
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After seeing Richards play great in the Olympics on Toews' wing, I would consider leaving Carter at center and trying Richie on a wing. Of course, Carter is more of a shooter so Richie would likely see the puck less than with Toews. That being said, if they had Richards on one wing and a physical presence (Carcillo... since we don't have Morrow and Hartnell is busy on Briere's line) on the other side, those guys could cycle and dig up a lot of pucks for Carter to get some shots off.

Carter and Richards are both great players though so I think they could make it work either way. Nice to have options. Perhaps Giroux moves to wing (I think he was a winger in junior) and both Carter and Richards stay at C.

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07-18-2010, 03:18 PM
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how bout we move Briere back to wing and put Carter back at center where he belongs.
another thread arguing the awesome defensive exploits of Danny Briere at center.
It is a tough call thou especially if Zherdev is targeted for the top line. Richards having 2 weak defensive wingers in Briere and Zherdev isnt a great option. unless we move Hartnell to the top line and hope he regains his 08-09 form

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07-18-2010, 03:18 PM
  #8
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Funny, we were just talking about this in the other thread.

I can't recall a time where Carter was tried at LW, but it's certainly a possibility.

I know he sucks at RW.

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07-18-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchy Black View Post
Carter-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Carcillo?
Shelley-Betts-Lappy

Hmm.
I would try:
Richards-Carter-Carcillo
Same
JVR-Giroux-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Lappy

I don't think Carcillo really belongs on line 1... but options are limited unless someone like Testwuide lights the world on fire in pre-season and earns a shot.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
how bout we move Briere back to wing and put Carter back at center where he belongs.
another thread arguing the awesome defensive exploits of Danny Briere at center.
It is a tough call thou especially if Zherdev is targeted for the top line. Richards having 2 weak defensive wingers in Briere and Zherdev isnt a great option. unless we move Hartnell to the top line and hope he regains his 08-09 form
Huh?

This thread is about what people would think of Carter at LW in the event Gagne is traded

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07-18-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Funny, we were just talking about this in the other thread.

I can't recall a time where Carter was tried at LW, but it's certainly a possibility.

I know he sucks at RW.
Haha, yes. I said this in the OP.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:22 PM
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You could try. I don't know why it would work for him if RW doesn't work for him though.

If Homer weren't a complete retard set on having three scoring lines (or was smart enough to not make us have to trade Gags) then this wouldn't be a problem since JVR and Hartnell easily fill our top six LW spots.

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07-18-2010, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You could try. I don't know why it would work for him if RW doesn't work for him though.

If Homer weren't a complete retard set on having three scoring lines (or was smart enough to not make us have to trade Gags) then this wouldn't be a problem since JVR and Hartnell easily fill our top six LW spots.
I think it was Jester, in the Gagne thread, that said Carter at LW would make more sense cause he is a right-hand shot. Carter on RW forces all his shots at a bad angle, whereas on left wing, Carter would have more to shoot at. Again, I believe Jester said this.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:26 PM
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Well, one of the three (talking about Giroux, Carter, and Briere here) is going to have to be on the wing next year. Guess we'll see what Laviolette ends up doing, but I'd bet on Giroux personally. Carter on the wing was pretty underwhelming in the playoffs, but he was just coming off his foot injury and he's never been that great of a playoff performer anyway. He's also the best of the 3 on defense, which I'm sure will have an impact on the decision that Lavi makes. It's really pretty clear how they stack up in their own end, Carter being the best, Giroux in the middle, and Briere the worst.

They'll probably all play a little bit at both center and wing in camp and the preseason before a decision is made. Should be fun to watch what happens there.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:30 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerpinTaxt View Post
Huh?

This thread is about what people would think of Carter at LW in the event Gagne is traded
I meant it will turn into that. Briere would be the option to put at center obviously if Carter on the wing. Briere isnt good enough defensively to play center.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:33 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerpinTaxt View Post
I think it was Jester, in the Gagne thread, that said Carter at LW would make more sense cause he is a right-hand shot. Carter on RW forces all his shots at a bad angle, whereas on left wing, Carter would have more to shoot at. Again, I believe Jester said this.
I had a whole essay-size post about why Carter doesn't work at wing. I wish I could find it.

What I wrote about has nothing to do with his right-handedness either. It has more to do with his play-style.

Basically Carter succeeds at center because he controls the puck. He generates offense by handling the puck. In that regard, our wingers and our centers converted to wingers (Briere and Giroux both apply) also generate offense with the puck, but they can succeed at wing because they have a better understanding of where to be without the puck.

Carter, when on the wing, hasn't demonstrated that he knows how to produce offense without the puck; i.e. he doesn't know the correct position.

That was part of my argument for the widely believed laziness so many people attribute to him. That understanding of Carter is incorrect. Another misunderstanding is that because he's not a heavy forechecker (and in our system of heavy forechecking he stands out as someone who is not the best at that specific skill), he's lazy. That is another incorrect misconception.

Those are some of main things I pointed out as to why he is not an effective winger.

If it really his level of comfort on a specific side than that could blow my entire argument about those traits affecting his ability as a winger out of the water (though they obviously still apply to his incorrectly perceived laziness).

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:42 PM
  #17
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Well, I could imagine someone feeding Carter the puck as he streaks down the LW pass the D.

Not saying Carter should go to LW, but just toying around with the idea.

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07-18-2010, 03:46 PM
  #18
Beastieboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I had a whole essay-size post about why Carter doesn't work at wing. I wish I could find it.

What I wrote about has nothing to do with his right-handedness either. It has more to do with his play-style.

Basically Carter succeeds at center because he controls the puck. He generates offense by handling the puck. In that regard, our wingers and our centers converted to wingers (Briere and Giroux both apply) also generate offense with the puck, but they can succeed at wing because they have a better understanding of where to be without the puck.

Carter, when on the wing, hasn't demonstrated that he knows how to produce offense without the puck; i.e. he doesn't know the correct position.

That was part of my argument for the widely believed laziness so many people attribute to him. That understanding of Carter is incorrect. Another misunderstanding is that because he's not a heavy forechecker (and in our system of heavy forechecking he stands out as someone who is not the best at that specific skill), he's lazy. That is another incorrect misconception.

Those are some of main things I pointed out as to why he is not an effective winger.

If it really his level of comfort on a specific side than that could blow my entire argument about those traits affecting his ability as a winger out of the water (though they obviously still apply to his incorrectly perceived laziness).
Great post... I think this is accurate and also the same reasons could apply as to why Richie could play wing... hits everything that moves, tenacious checking, smart positional player (even capable of D on the PP), knows where to be, works the boards.

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07-18-2010, 03:47 PM
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When I saw the carter goal chart with twice as many goals scored from the left as the right, I knew this was coming.

It might work because Carter shoots a wrist shot and theoretically he would have more net to aim(?!) at. If he shot the slapper it wouldn't matter.

Again I am not enough of an expert to understand whether this matters in the Flyers system. I am sure someone on this board could explain why right or left matters as they seem to go where the puck is... either way if they experiment with this the suggestion would be to try it during the preseason not during the Stanley Cup Finals.

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07-18-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
When I saw the carter goal chart with twice as many goals scored from the left as the right, I knew this was coming.

It might work because Carter shoots a wrist shot and theoretically he would have more net to aim(?!) at. If he shot the slapper it wouldn't matter.

Again I am not enough of an expert to understand whether this matters in the Flyers system. I am sure someone on this board could explain why right or left matters as they seem to go where the puck is... either way if they experiment with this the suggestion would be to try it during the preseason not during the Stanley Cup Finals.
Does anyone actually read the OP?

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:17 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerpinTaxt View Post
Does anyone actually read the OP?
My thought exactly.

I agree with shafer though, he's probably best at C.

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:18 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerpinTaxt View Post
Does anyone actually read the OP?
Sorry I bow to you... I just said I thought we'd see this sooner or later not that you'd get your idea off Yahoo. You just beat one of us other Yahoo's to the punch.


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Old
07-18-2010, 04:30 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchy Black View Post
Carter-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Carcillo?
Shelley-Betts-Lappy

Hmm.

As good as that Briere/Leino/Harts thing was in the playoffs, both Briere and Hartnell have the propensity to straight up disappear and we only have a small sampling of Leino. And I don't see Roo/JVR picking up massive slack just yet.

So basically, experiment with it, but if it doesn't work, change it fast.
holy hand-grenade that looks good (keeping in mind our scary defense!)

i'd swap carcillo and shelley though! (surprising isnt it?)

richards/carter are actually quite potent together, and makes no sense to have richie be a winger instead of carter b/c richards is be FAR better defensively...

give carter a shot with a half-decent foot and some actual coaching on how to play winger and i think we'll all be laughing at how silly it was to have him play center.

as for briere, sure the numbers are similar...but if you watch the games he looks SO much better at center, he was much more dominant and caused tons of scoring opportunities.

i'd consider swapping JVR and hartnell if the briere/hartnell/leino line cant get it together.

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:38 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
i'd swap carcillo and shelley though! (surprising isnt it?)
Screw that. If Carter does work at LW, I want this:

Carter - Richards - Zherdev
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - Nodl/Testwuide/Legein*
Carcillo/Powe - Betts - Laperriere
Powe/Carcillo/Shelley

*Not Maroon because his skill-set doesn't fit on the team anymore if Carter takes the LW.

That's of course assuming Gagne is gone.

Also, I'd rather not have Shelley as anything more than the 13th. Rather Powe, Carcillo, or Nodl/Testwuide/Legein/Maroon take his place if he's going to be anything more than a Cote-esque throw-in for tough games.



That said, I much prefer not toying with it:

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Zherdev/Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Maroon/Testwuide - Carter - Giroux/Zherdev
Carcillo/Powe/Nodl - Betts - Laperriere
Carcillo/Powe

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:40 PM
  #25
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So, if the experiment at right wing failed, we're going to try to make him a left winger? I think the guy is a natural center who has trouble adapting. For that reason, plus the fact that he will probably ask for a ridiculous raise next off season, the Flyers need to see what they can get for Carter. I know that players of his stature don't grow on trees, but where is the fit in Philly? RW on top line, 3rd line center??

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