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Old
07-19-2010, 10:54 AM
  #76
alexstream
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
But those are question marks.

Can Price play as well as Halak?
Can Kostitsyn play consistently? He hasn't so far.
Boyd is 6'0 185 - hardly adding any size.
Our top 6 remains the same.
Can Plekanec have back to back good seasons? He hasn't yet.

We have not added anything to our core group from last year that we can 100% count on.
-Price is 22, Halak 25. Price will be as good or better than Halak by 22. Right now, he is a tad below Halak, mainly due to consistency WHICH IS NORMAL for a 22 y.o. goalie. I support the Halak trade because it brought a pretty decent prospect AND allowed us to retain Plek (no one can convince me that we would be better off without Plek but with Halak... that is the direction the Sharks and Flyers have taken btw.)
-AK is still very young. I think he's more serious than Kovalev was at that age.
-Size again? Kilger was big man. Gionta is small. what does that mean? nothing.
-yes, the same top 6 that brought us to conference final.
-i dunno. I'd think so.

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07-19-2010, 10:55 AM
  #77
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JayBee is complaining again? It must be everyday of the week again.

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07-19-2010, 10:58 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
-Price is 22, Halak 25. Price will be as good or better than Halak by 22. Right now, he is a tad below Halak, mainly due to consistency WHICH IS NORMAL for a 22 y.o. goalie. I support the Halak trade because it brought a pretty decent prospect AND allowed us to retain Plek (no one can convince me that we would be better off without Plek but with Halak... that is the direction the Sharks and Flyers have taken btw.)
-AK is still very young. I think he's more serious than Kovalev was at that age.
-Size again? Kilger was big man. Gionta is small. what does that mean? nothing.
-yes, the same top 6 that brought us to conference final.
-i dunno. I'd think so.
-2 of the 6 guys in our current top 6 were invisible in the playoffs
-so we are worse off in net right now? correct?
-the Boyd comment was in reference to another poster who stated that Boyd adds size - which he doesn't.

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07-19-2010, 10:58 AM
  #79
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I have yet to have anyone give me a legitimate answer here that did not include "we're healthier". WTF does that mean?
I gave you many reasons. The addition of Subban makes out D more mobile, he also provides more puck movement on the back end, something we lacked. We saw what he can do in the playoffs, without Markov in the lineup.

We also, improve in the fact in won't take an entire season for 11 new faces to buy into a new system.

We also improve by replacing Metropolit with Boyd. Boyd provides the same offense, is younger and faster. He also has much better potential than Metropolit and can always improve. He is also better defensively.

We also have Pyatt who found his game in the playoffs, so look for that improvement to be factored into the roster.

The biggest question mark is Eller, I'll give you that, but every team brings in rookies who ahve question marks. You also have to take into consideration that Eller wil not be given a top 6 role, so not many responsibilites will be put on his shoulders.

Lapierre had a bad year and found his game in the playoffs, look for that to be factored in as well.

In regards to injuries, I already explained it to you. There's a difference between having a few players injured for a few games and multiple key players injured for multiple games, like Gionta, Cammalleri, Andrei, Markov and Pouliot all missing 20+ games.

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There are still huge holes that have yet to be addressed. Habs were healthy (without Markov) against Philly and got obliterated. What have the Habs done to avoid this happening again?
Every team has holes that need to be addressed. Ottawa couldn't take out the Pens, but the habs did without Markov their best player in the lineup. Exactly we lost to Philli without our best defensemen who controls the power and eats big minutes, of course that's only a small insignificant detail as to why we loss right?

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07-19-2010, 10:59 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
You are right, here I will give you answers since you cant seem to understand that people cant predict the future. We should have signed marleau to ensure plekanec doesnt get a chance to repeat. Why bother seeing if it will happen.
I don't even understand what this means

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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Could halak repeat what halak did last year ? Riddle me that one.
Who knows, but at least I know he's capable of that kind of play. What makes you think Price is? Price's track record shows that he's not that great in the playoffs. Habs have decided to go with the lesser of the two goalies (at this point. Price could end up being better).

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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Kostitsyn play consistent perhaps, maybe if he doesnt get hurt once he is hitting stride and the new fitness guy rides him like a donkey all summer.
The guy is incosistent as hell. Why even count on him to be any better than he has in the past. 20-25 goals and 45 points...heartless.

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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Boyd is going to get a chance hes no beast but I believe Richards only has 5-8 pounds on him and boyd already played in the west which I think is more of a grind than the east.
Boyd might be a good player, but can you really count on him to replace Metro's goals and then some?

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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Our top 6 is the same but the bottom six have a better chance of putting more pucks in.
Bottom 6 may be better but the problem is the top 6 stayed the same...and so did the D. Goaltending got worse (Halak/Price > Price/Auld).

"we don't know what the future holds". We don't, you're right. But to completely ignore historical data and "hope for the best" will make you a last place team! That is a copout

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07-19-2010, 11:01 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Actually it's more like Meszaros + Zherdev over Gagne and in terms of salary it's 5.25m Gagnes $ vs 6m Zherdevs&Meszaros.
I'd take Gagné over those two any day. Do you honestly think the Flyers are a better team with Zherdev and Meszaros over Gagné?

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:02 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Exactly, so how are we going to improve our position if every other team we are facing can say they improved as we are?

Plus Ottawa has added to their lineup, not subtracted. Plus they have just as many good prospects as we do.

The point being - can you objectively look at the team now and say that we won't be battling for a playoff spot the whole year? I don't think so.

We should be shooting for higher, but right now, we aren't as good as the top teams in the conference, IMO.
that's the perpetual post lockout question.

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07-19-2010, 11:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
You are right, here I will give you answers since you cant seem to understand that people cant predict the future. We should have signed marleau to ensure plekanec doesnt get a chance to repeat. Why bother seeing if it will happen.

Could halak repeat what halak did last year ? Riddle me that one.

Kostitsyn play consistent perhaps, maybe if he doesnt get hurt once he is hitting stride and the new fitness guy rides him like a donkey all summer. Boyd is going to get a chance hes no beast but I believe Richards only has 5-8 pounds on him and boyd already played in the west which I think is more of a grind than the east.

Our top 6 is the same but the bottom six have a better chance of putting more pucks in. Our bottoms six sucked until Moore was traded for.
Also let's not forget that our top 6 wasn't the problem in the playoffs, it was the lack of production from the bottom 6 that caused us problems. Adding Eller and Boyd improves that already.

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07-19-2010, 11:03 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Are you stupid? Where did I say Huet should have been signed? My issue was that the Habs handled the goaltending situation as bad as could be. All the moves were reactionary and no plan was involved...from trading Huet at the deadline to bringing up Price to the Halak/Price situation and how it was handled.
and now that we have a plan, a goalie management strategy, you continue to whine. I return the question : are you stupid?

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07-19-2010, 11:05 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Also let's not forget that our top 6 wasn't the problem in the playoffs, it was the lack of production from the bottom 6 that caused us problems. Adding Eller and Boyd improves that already.
Well Kostitsyn and Pouliot went missing in the playoffs. I think it's more up to them to contribute to the offense than the bottom six.

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07-19-2010, 11:07 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I gave you many reasons. The addition of Subban makes out D more mobile, he also provides more puck movement on the back end, something we lacked. We saw what he can do in the playoffs, without Markov in the lineup.

We also, improve in the fact in won't take an entire season for 11 new faces to buy into a new system.

We also improve by replacing Metropolit with Boyd. Boyd provides the same offense, is younger and faster. He also has much better potential than Metropolit and can always improve. He is also better defensively.

We also have Pyatt who found his game in the playoffs, so look for that improvement to be factored into the roster.

The biggest question mark is Eller, I'll give you that, but every team brings in rookies who ahve question marks. You also have to take into consideration that Eller wil not be given a top 6 role, so not many responsibilites will be put on his shoulders.

Lapierre had a bad year and found his game in the playoffs, look for that to be factored in as well.

In regards to injuries, I already explained it to you. There's a difference between having a few players injured for a few games and multiple key players injured for multiple games, like Gionta, Cammalleri, Andrei, Markov and Pouliot all missing 20+ games.



Every team has holes that need to be addressed. Ottawa couldn't take out the Pens, but the habs did without Markov their best player in the lineup. Exactly we lost to Philli without our best defensemen who controls the power and eats big minutes, of course that's only a small insignificant detail as to why we loss right?
Dude, first off, I respect your opinions. I agree with some of them as well...yes... Subban will help, Boyd is an upgrade over Metro, there will be more chemistry, etc.

What I question is how will that all relate to producing more goals 5 on 5? How will it help defeat teams who know how to win against the Habs (agressive forecheck, pressure D, play physical game)?

I can't predict the future, but history tells me that the Habs downgraded at the goalie position. If Pouillot and Kostitsyn continue to play inconsistently (odds are they will, history tells us this) this team is in big, big doodoo.

I'm not complaining. This is a discussion board is it not? You can disagree with me, but please don't call me a complainer for wanting my team to be the best it can be.

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07-19-2010, 11:07 AM
  #87
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Who knows, but at least I know he's capable of that kind of play. What makes you think Price is? Price's track record shows that he's not that great in the playoffs. Habs have decided to go with the lesser of the two goalies (at this point. Price could end up being better).
So basically you are saying that you don't think anyone on the habs will be consistent considering you are questioning everyone's production and whether it will be the same as last year's, but for Halak he will be consistent correct? Gotchya.



Quote:
The guy is incosistent as hell. Why even count on him to be any better than he has in the past. 20-25 goals and 45 points...heartless.
He still puts up points of a top 6 winger. very few players are consistent and almost every top 6 winger scores in bunches, that's why they are top 6 wingers and not first line players.

Quote:
Boyd might be a good player, but can you really count on him to replace Metro's goals and then some?
Considering he's 23 and has played two seasons in teh nhl in which he potted 11 goals in each season playing on the third line, then yes I do think he can because he has scored as much as Metro.


Quote:
Bottom 6 may be better but the problem is the top 6 stayed the same...and so did the D. Goaltending got worse (Halak/Price > Price/Auld).
not it's not. The problem was the bottom 6, our top 6 showed up in the playoffs, look at Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri's and Plekanec's numbers, they produced as they should, the bottom 6 was terrible, they scored 9 goals the entire playoffs.

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07-19-2010, 11:08 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Who knows, but at least I know he's capable of that kind of play. What makes you think Price is? Price's track record shows that he's not that great in the playoffs. Habs have decided to go with the lesser of the two goalies (at this point. Price could end up being better).
Price played for 41 games at .920, halak at .923 HUGE difference I know. So I guess we do know he is capable of it dont we?

Price had one legitimate playoffs with a rough series and a series with a team that had pretty much given up. Write him off if you want but im not.

How the **** is anyone supposed to know if plekanec will repeat. Im guessing he will get close to those numbers.

You want answers to questions that cant be answered. Get out your tarot cards you have a better chance of getting them there.

Im guessing that kostitsyn will be more consistent next year, but its just a guessing game either way.

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07-19-2010, 11:08 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
and now that we have a plan, a goalie management strategy, you continue to whine. I return the question : are you stupid?
What plan is that? And who is "we"? Are you on the team?

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07-19-2010, 11:10 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
-2 of the 6 guys in our current top 6 were invisible in the playoffs
-so we are worse off in net right now? correct?
-the Boyd comment was in reference to another poster who stated that Boyd adds size - which he doesn't.
we are "worse" immediately compared to the stellar last 30 games stretch. right now, price has not had a stellar 30 games since 2 years. is it the year? maybe.
however, dude you gotta realize, as much as you like halak, he has a big whooping 101 games of experience. As good as he was in those last 30 games, he couldn't do squat vs Philly and was outdueled by Michael frikkin Leighton.

Are we worse? it remains to be seen how Halak will do in St-Louis and how Price will do without anyone pushing him in the back (history shows that less pressure in the back = better for price)

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07-19-2010, 11:10 AM
  #91
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This move makes perfect sense. He would fit there like a glove. If this happens people should really start worrying about TB, they're looking better and better.

In fact, Philly should probably think twice.

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07-19-2010, 11:13 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
This move makes perfect sense. He would fit there like a glove. If this happens people should really start worrying about TB, they're looking better and better.

In fact, Philly should probably think twice.
Philly doesnt have much of a choice, they need to cap room. Figure it will be easier to get rid of him than briere.

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07-19-2010, 11:14 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
So basically you are saying that you don't think anyone on the habs will be consistent considering you are questioning everyone's production and whether it will be the same as last year's, but for Halak he will be consistent correct? Gotchya.




He still puts up points of a top 6 winger. very few players are consistent and almost every top 6 winger scores in bunches, that's why they are top 6 wingers and not first line players.


Considering he's 23 and has played two seasons in teh nhl in which he potted 11 goals in each season playing on the third line, then yes I do think he can because he has scored as much as Metro.




not it's not. The problem was the bottom 6, our top 6 showed up in the playoffs, look at Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri's and Plekanec's numbers, they produced as they should, the bottom 6 was terrible, they scored 9 goals the entire playoffs.
What do I care how well or poorly Halak will play ON ANOTHER TEAM?

Historically, Halak has been a solid goaltender...Price has been inconsistent. I know this breaks some of your hearts, but it's the truth. Stop taking it so personally.

The top 6 showed up? Pouillot and Andrei were awful. Gomez and Pleks had what 4 goals between them? Gionta and Cam were shut down in the Philly series mainly because teams didn't have to worry about anyone else scoring. The problem was Philly was a better overall team and besides Cam and Gionta the Habs couldn't score.

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07-19-2010, 11:16 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
This move makes perfect sense. He would fit there like a glove. If this happens people should really start worrying about TB, they're looking better and better.

In fact, Philly should probably think twice.
best post of the thread

back on topic after two guys who are still sour about Halak's trade keep on beating a dead horse and pissing in everyone's ears.

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07-19-2010, 11:16 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Actually it's more like Meszaros + Zherdev over Gagne and in terms of salary it's 5.25m Gagnes $ vs 6m Zherdevs&Meszaros.
I'd take Gagne over those two any day.

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07-19-2010, 11:16 AM
  #96
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Jesus ****ing christ halak was consistent for this half year, not other years. In January of 09 he was borderline terrible but still won games, then in march he gets on a roll for a week and hes been consistent.

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07-19-2010, 11:17 AM
  #97
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JayBee would you be whining about the goaltending being weaker if we had traded Price instead of Halak? Because then our goaltending would be Halak/Auld (some other backup) which is much weaker than Halak/Price.

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07-19-2010, 11:19 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Making their team better? Yeah that's something they could have considered...
They are better.

Gagne, Lecav, St.Louis....






Oh yeah, Stamkos.

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07-19-2010, 11:20 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
What do I care how well or poorly Halak will play ON ANOTHER TEAM?

Historically, Halak has been a solid goaltender...Price has been inconsistent. I know this breaks some of your hearts, but it's the truth. Stop taking it so personally.

The top 6 showed up? Pouillot and Andrei were awful. Gomez and Pleks had what 4 goals between them? Gionta and Cam were shut down in the Philly series mainly because teams didn't have to worry about anyone else scoring. The problem was Philly was a better overall team and besides Cam and Gionta the Habs couldn't score.
You are the one who brought up Halak not me.

You are counting 101 games played as History? Especially that Halak broke out in only about 34 games.

History shows us that Price can play good considering he put up stellar numbers in his first year as well as his first 26 of 49 starts the year after until he got hurt.

History also shows us that Price played well this year until november. History also shows us that goalie's at 22 tend to struggle.

The top 6 produced. The bottom 6 had 9 of Montreal's 49 goals in the playoffs. Clear where the problem was.

Also, you are looking at one playoff series to discount what happen in the other 14 games, that's stupid. Especially considering how good the Flyers were, had they had a decent goalie, they could have beaten the Hawks, that's how good they were.

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07-19-2010, 11:33 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
They are better.

Gagne, Lecav, St.Louis....


Oh yeah, Stamkos.
Except if Gagne falls down he's injured. Oh and Lecavalier's had multiple shoulder surgeries since in the last 3 years and his goal scoring touch is fading every time he has another operation. He and Pleks were even on points this last season.

St. Louis isn't powering Lecavalier's engine anymore either, he's got Stamkos going so don't expect that trend to really reverse, Lecavalier's best numbers all came from St. Louis being his winger.

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