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Old
07-19-2010, 11:57 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
I know that it's legal but it's ********. Even with Pronger it's ********. Those types of contracts shouldn't be allowed. Luongo, Hossa, Kovalchuk, Pronger...etc. I mean if you're going to do that and obviously its BS the NHL should make some rule where you're allowed like one or something. Even though no team has more then one currently. Well maybe Detroit.
If it is 17 years, wouldn't this be the first deal that goes beyond the player's 43rd birthday? Maybe that is the caveat that opens the door to Bettman shooting down the contract.

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07-19-2010, 11:57 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
I know that it's legal but it's ********. Even with Pronger it's ********. Those types of contracts shouldn't be allowed. Luongo, Hossa, Kovalchuk, Pronger...etc. I mean if you're going to do that and obviously its BS the NHL should make some rule where you're allowed like one or something. Even though no team has more then one currently. Well maybe Detroit.
Well, Luongo... Hossa... the young guys, I agree with you. Pronger, we're on the hook for the entirety of that contract. So, you're not really avoiding anything.

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07-19-2010, 11:58 AM
  #878
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I think the NHL has set a precedent that these long term contracts can extend to age 42. IIRC Hossa's, Pronger's, and Kovalchuk's all take them to age 42ish (All the players are 42 entering the last season of the contract).

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07-19-2010, 11:58 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Murphy7 View Post
If it is 17 years, wouldn't this be the first deal that goes beyond the player's 43rd birthday? Maybe that is the caveat that opens the door to Bettman shooting down the contract.
Was just discussing this with my friend... I'm curious what type of discretionary power they have to do that. Clearly they would like to after the stink they made last summer, but they also have an established precedent of allowing these deals to ultimately go through.

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07-19-2010, 12:01 PM
  #880
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I can see it playing out now. Bettman says hell no because it takes him to being 43. Kovalchuk and the Devils try to rework it but they don't want to pay him the number that Kovy is asking for and then we're back at the beginning.

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07-19-2010, 12:01 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Murphy7 View Post
If it is 17 years, wouldn't this be the first deal that goes beyond the player's 43rd birthday? Maybe that is the caveat that opens the door to Bettman shooting down the contract.
as Jester said he cant. Under the current CBA that would be a legal contract. I hope Parise asks for a lifetime contract when his deal is up.

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07-19-2010, 12:10 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
The issue is obviously JVR and his bonus. Since the CBA was extended, his salary falls to 875k, meaning we are cap compliant. His bonus is NOT APPLIED.

Obviously I don't like the idea of a 22 man roster, but it's POSSIBLE, which is the problem.
CapGeek has the bonuses applied. That roster still leaves us over the cap.

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07-19-2010, 12:13 PM
  #883
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On a side note,

Weren't Devils fans happy that they weren't going to resign Kovalchuk? and now they're acting like Lou is a god for signing him?

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07-19-2010, 12:16 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
On a side note,

Weren't Devils fans happy that they weren't going to resign Kovalchuk? and now they're acting like Lou is a god for signing him?
maybe they are happy its finally over. I think Kings fans are happy. They think all those offensive studs in Manchester will turn into something

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07-19-2010, 12:16 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
On a side note,

Weren't Devils fans happy that they weren't going to resign Kovalchuk? and now they're acting like Lou is a god for signing him?
Lou better be a God, otherwise he'll probably die before that contract expires.

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07-19-2010, 12:19 PM
  #886
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Lou better be a God, otherwise he'll probably die before that contract expires.
GOLD !!

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07-19-2010, 12:20 PM
  #887
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From a Flyers perspective, this is just one other superstar in the east that has to get its finger bitten by Scott Hartnell.

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07-19-2010, 12:22 PM
  #888
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These "manipulated" contracts are getting ridiculous.

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07-19-2010, 12:25 PM
  #889
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Lou better be a God, otherwise he'll probably die before that contract expires.
Quote of the week.

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Old
07-19-2010, 12:26 PM
  #890
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Well, Luongo... Hossa... the young guys, I agree with you. Pronger, we're on the hook for the entirety of that contract. So, you're not really avoiding anything.
Not 100% sure so I figured I would ask, lets say Pronger has 2 years left and is "injured", would the Flyers still be on the hook for that?

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07-19-2010, 12:27 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by DenverBoone View Post
These "manipulated" contracts are getting ridiculous.
We've just yet to see a team get screwed by the back end of them. If guys decline years before they decide to retire, these deals won't be such "steals." The CBA will probably be changed before then, but if we did wait a long while I think teams would naturally be discouraged from doing this too often.

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07-19-2010, 12:27 PM
  #892
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Not 100% sure so I figured I would ask, lets say Pronger has 2 years left and is "injured", would the Flyers still be on the hook for that?
No. He'd be Hatcher'd for the remainder of his contract if it's career-ending.

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Old
07-19-2010, 12:28 PM
  #893
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Not 100% sure so I figured I would ask, lets say Pronger has 2 years left and is "injured", would the Flyers still be on the hook for that?
It better be a legitimate injury... or they wouldn't be able to LTIR him.

The Devs had that issue with Mogilny, and got a completely BS ruling. Mogilny had a "chronic hip problem" at the time of his signing with the Devs. Well, when he was sucking and wanted to retire... they cited the hip injury as a reason to LTIR him and get out of his cap hit. Well, no **** he had a hip problem... it was a friggin chronic injury (dating to when he was with Toronto) at the time of the signing!

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07-19-2010, 12:29 PM
  #894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
The issue is obviously JVR and his bonus. Since the CBA was extended, his salary falls to 875k, meaning we are cap compliant. His bonus is NOT APPLIED.

Obviously I don't like the idea of a 22 man roster, but it's POSSIBLE, which is the problem.
Yeah, but entry level contract bonuses are next to impossible to achieve. They don't get a standard signing bonus or anything like that. The rookie contract bonuses include stuff like winning Rookie Of The Year, the Maurice Richard Trophy, the Lester B. Pearson trophy, the Lady Byng, being named to the first team all-star team, etc.....So, the probability of JVR getting those bonuses are slim and none and slim just walked out the door. So, 875K for the next two seasons isn't too bad of a cap hit at all.....

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07-19-2010, 12:30 PM
  #895
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No. He'd be Hatcher'd for the remainder of his contract if it's career-ending.
Hatcher wasn't a 35+ contract, though... and didn't fight it. I wouldn't be shocked if he had been 35+ (or really wanted to keep on playing on his knee) if we would have had a problem claiming LTIR relief.

Mogilny's LTIR went to an independent Dr and an independent ruling by the league to allow 'em to do it.

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07-19-2010, 12:30 PM
  #896
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07-19-2010, 12:31 PM
  #897
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************* Rumor: Quick/Williams in exchange for Gagne/Hartnell. Remember its a rumor folks, don't take it to be a shoe in to happen.

-------------------------------------------------------

Deal rumor expanded to include Harnell and Quick... To me I don't like giving up both Gagne and Hartnell. It does work better under the Cap as Gagne and Qick/Williams is pretty much a wash... so we lose Hartnell's $4.2M and have our goalie. Williams has not been a Quality player for a few years now, IMO and is not a replacement for Gagne and doesn't do what Harts can do -- see the SCFs and 2008-2009 -- But Powe can be signed and Cote/Boucher waived and they should be Cap compliant and have a full roster.

In the end does that make the Flyers a better team? I suppose Quick would determine that... It makes much more sense, but I'm still not buying it at this point.

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07-19-2010, 12:31 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Yeah, but entry level contract bonuses are next to impossible to achieve. They don't get a standard signing bonus or anything like that. The rookie contract bonuses include stuff like winning Rookie Of The Year, the Maurice Richard Trophy, the Lester B. Pearson trophy, the Lady Byng, being named to the first team all-star team, etc.....So, the probability of JVR getting those bonuses are slim and none and slim just walked out the door. So, 875K for the next two seasons isn't too bad of a cap hit at all.....
You have to look at the contract itself, though. There are various levels of bonuses... some easier to achieve than others. CBA has a whole section on it, actually.

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07-19-2010, 12:32 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Hatcher wasn't a 35+ contract, though... and didn't fight it. I wouldn't be shocked if he had been 35+ (or really wanted to keep on playing on his knee) if we would have had a problem claiming LTIR relief.

Mogilny's LTIR went to an independent Dr and an independent ruling by the league to allow 'em to do it.
Well of course Pronger's injury and LTIR status would have to be held up and confirmed. The league would absolutely make sure the Flyers weren't just hiding him.

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07-19-2010, 12:33 PM
  #900
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So we lose Gagne and Hartnell and get Quick and a useless Williams....

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