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Reality for 2010-11: Post-Gagne

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Old
07-19-2010, 04:19 PM
  #1
CS
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Reality for 2010-11: Post-Gagne

Not defending Holmgren. Not even going to start. I'm going to be the first to say that today was a travesty of justice (and clearly everyone agrees).

Press conference was a load of nonsense

So what now?

Carter - Richards - Zherdev
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - xxxxxxxxxx
yyyyyyyyyy - Betts - Laperriere
yyyyyyyyyy

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - zzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzz

Leighton
Boucher

x = Powe, Carcillo, Nodl, Maroon, Testwuide, Legein
y = Powe, Carcillo, Nodl, Shelley, Cote
z = O'Donnell, Walker, Bartulis

We have the following cap space based on this current 23 man roster (bonus does not count for JVR I believe):

Carter (5.00) - Richards (5.75) - Zherdev (2.00)
Hartnell (4.20) - Briere (6.50) - Leino (0.80)
vanRiemsdyk (0.88) - Giroux (0.82) - Carcillo (1.08)
Shelley (1.10) - Betts (0.70) - Laperriere (1.16)
Cote (0.55)

Pronger (4.92) - Carle (3.44)
Timonen (6.33) - Coburn (3.20)
Meszaros (4.00) - O'Donnell (1.30)
Walker (1.70) - Bartulis (0.60)

Leighton (1.55)
Boucher (0.93)

TOTAL: 57.96 (add 0.77 to include JVR's bonuses)
CAP: 59.40
SPACE: 01.44

Right now our team is better than it was at the end of the Stanley Cup finals but only marginally.

We still need a goalie, and Holmgren hinted at a possible trade in the future as the summer progresses (maybe Carle?).

That aside, what do you do?

FREE AGENT FORWARDS
Quote:
Kovalchuk, Ilya » F 27 NJD $6,389,300 2010 (UFA)
Kariya, Paul » F 35 STL $6,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Demitra, Pavol » F 35 VAN $4,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Kozlov, Vyacheslav » F 38 ATL $3,666,666 2010 (UFA)
Brind'Amour, Rod » F 39 CAR $3,600,000 2010 (UFA)
Modano, Mike » F 40 DAL $3,450,000 2010 (UFA)
Modin, Fredrik » F 35 LAK $3,250,000 2010 (UFA)
Cheechoo, Jonathan » F 30 OTT $3,000,000 2010 (UFA)
O'Sullivan, Patrick » F 25 PHO $2,925,000 2010 (UFA)
Frolov, Alexander » F 28 LAK $2,900,000 2010 (UFA)
Madden, John » F 37 CHI $2,750,000 2010 (UFA)
Nolan, Owen » F 38 MIN $2,750,000 2010 (UFA)
Selanne, Teemu » F 40 ANA $2,625,000 2010 (UFA)
Stempniak, Lee » F 27 PHO $2,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Pisani, Fernando » F 33 EDM $2,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Walker, Scott » F 37 WAS $2,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Pandolfo, Jay » F 35 NJD $2,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Lehtinen, Jere » F 37 DAL $2,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Tucker, Darcy » F 35 COL $2,250,000 2010 (UFA)
Torres, Raffi » F 28 BUF $2,250,000 2010 (UFA)
Weight, Doug » F 39 NYI $2,200,000 2010 (UFA)
Ponikarovsky, Alexei » F 30 PIT $2,105,000 2010 (UFA)
Svatos, Marek » F 28 COL $2,050,000 2010 (UFA)
Nilsson, Robert » F 24 EDM $2,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Guerin, Bill » F 39 PIT $2,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Halpern, Jeff » F 34 LAK $2,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Fedotenko, Ruslan » F 31 PIT $1,800,000 2010 (UFA)
Belanger, Eric » F 32 WAS $1,750,000 2010 (UFA)
Lang, Robert » F 39 PHO $1,700,000 2010 (UFA)
Sykora, Petr » F 33 MIN $1,600,000 2010 (UFA)
Williams, Jason » F 29 DET $1,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Morrison, Brendan » F 34 WAS $1,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Laraque, Georges » F 33 MTL $1,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Primeau, Wayne » F 34 TOR $1,400,000 2010 (UFA)
Mayers, Jamal » F 35 CGY $1,333,333 2010 (UFA)
Comrie, Mike » F 29 EDM $1,250,000 2010 (UFA)
Wellwood, Kyle » F 27 VAN $1,200,000 2010 (UFA)
Moore, Dominic » F 29 MTL $1,100,000 2010 (UFA)
Johnson, Ryan » F 34 VAN $1,100,000 2010 (UFA)
Fedoruk, Todd » F 31 TBL $1,058,333 2010 (UFA)
Conroy, Craig » F 38 CGY $1,050,000 2010 (UFA)
Sweetland, Andrew » F 23 FLA $1,030,000 2010 (UFA)
Sim, Jon » F 32 NYI $1,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Metropolit, Glen » F 36 MTL $1,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Crowder, Paul » F 25 NYR $975,000 2010 (UFA)
Nokelainen, Petteri » F 24 PHO $950,000 2010 (UFA)
Artyukhin, Evgeny » F 27 ATL $950,000 2010 (UFA)
FREE AGENT GOALIES
Quote:
Turco, Marty » G 34 DAL $5,700,000 2010 (UFA)
Theodore, Jose » G 33 WAS $4,500,000 2010 (UFA)
Toskala, Vesa » G 33 CGY $4,000,000 2010 (UFA)
Emery, Ray » G 27 PHI $1,500,000 2010 (UFA)

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Old
07-19-2010, 04:26 PM
  #2
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Drop walker to the minors, sign turco 2 mil

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07-19-2010, 04:27 PM
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Cote, Bartulis, Boucher waived/to AHL. Sign Powe. Sign Turco. Should have around $600K left over of cap space for some minor flexibility.

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07-19-2010, 04:28 PM
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I really feel bad for you guys to the point where I really hope Turco signs cheap.

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07-19-2010, 04:29 PM
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Or waive loser of O'Donnell/Walker in camp, and have some extra cap space. Don't like that as much as waving Bartulis, because we will likely not get either of them back through re-entry waivers.

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07-19-2010, 04:30 PM
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Step 1: Fire Holmgren. He clearly cannot be trusted with simple problem solving... this is alarming, because he has difficult problems to solve in the next 12 months.

Step 2: Ask the NHL if we can hit the restart button on the season. Similar to what you do when the computer decides to blow the knee out on your QB in the first game of a Madden franchise.

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07-19-2010, 04:34 PM
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Fire the assmuncher.

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07-19-2010, 04:35 PM
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I would say Holmgren has clearly staked his credibility on this team with this drastic rebuild of a team that was 2 wins short of a Cup, but I have a bad feeling that he's got the same voodoo on Snider than Clarke had that allowed him to make many mistakes and stay.

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07-19-2010, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Or waive loser of O'Donnell/Walker in camp, and have some extra cap space. Don't like that as much as waving Bartulis, because we will likely not get either of them back through re-entry waivers.
Waiving O'Donnell and Walker frees up another $3.00m in cap space leaving the following defense:

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - Bartulis
zzzzzzzzzz

That puts us at $4.44m to spend minus the cost of a 7th.

Waiving O'Donnell puts us at $2.74m with no defenseman to get. Waiving Walker puts us at $3.14m.

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07-19-2010, 04:37 PM
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How many players on that FA list are better on their worst day than Shelley is on his best?

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07-19-2010, 04:41 PM
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Obviously somethings gotta give on defense. In the wake of all these moves I dislike the acquisition of Mezaros even more.

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07-19-2010, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Not defending Holmgren. Not even going to start. I'm going to be the first to say that today was a travesty of justice (and clearly everyone agrees).

Press conference was a load of nonsense

So what now?

Carter - Richards - Zherdev
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - xxxxxxxxxx
yyyyyyyyyy - Betts - Laperriere
yyyyyyyyyy

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - zzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzz

Leighton
Boucher

x = Powe, Carcillo, Nodl, Maroon, Testwuide, Legein
y = Powe, Carcillo, Nodl, Shelley, Cote
z = O'Donnell, Walker, Bartulis

We have the following cap space based on this current 23 man roster (bonus does not count for JVR I believe):

Carter (5.00) - Richards (5.75) - Zherdev (2.00)
Hartnell (4.20) - Briere (6.50) - Leino (0.80)
vanRiemsdyk (0.88) - Giroux (0.82) - Carcillo (1.08)
Shelley (1.10) - Betts (0.70) - Laperriere (1.16)
Cote (0.55)

Pronger (4.92) - Carle (3.44)
Timonen (6.33) - Coburn (3.20)
Meszaros (4.00) - O'Donnell (1.30)
Walker (1.70) - Bartulis (0.60)

Leighton (1.55)
Boucher (0.93)

TOTAL: 57.96 (add 0.77 to include JVR's bonuses)
CAP: 59.40
SPACE: 01.44

Right now our team is better than it was at the end of the Stanley Cup finals but only marginally.


We still need a goalie, and Holmgren hinted at a possible trade in the future as the summer progresses (maybe Carle?).

That aside, what do you do?
I don't agree with that.

One thing that's being criminally underrated around here is that Leighton didn't have a starter's load last season. The regular season was split by Boucher, Leighton, and Emery. The post-season was split by Boucher and Leighton.

If Homer actually plans on going into the season with Leighton-Boucher (which I think he does) then Leighton will have an actual starter's work-load. He's never had one and most people who have seen him play over his NHL career would say that he can't handle one. I expect him to implode at some point if he truly is going to be our starter. Then we basically have to hope that Backlund can step in if that does happen.

Our upgrade at defense is very unnecessary. We're paying a top four d-man to play on the bottom pairing and currently have 8 NHL d-men signed. They both improve us talent-wise, but neither make any sense at all.

We lost our best winger, both offensively and defensively, and replaced him with an enigma that will probably boom-or-bust. That's a down-grade as of now.

We have Carcillo playing in our top nine and Shelley might actually be in our top nine if any of our big guys goes down.

Plus Leino hasn't proven that he has what it takes to be an offensive threat in the regular season. If you look at his history with the Red Wings and Flyers, he hasn't proven anything in the regular season. So if he fails then we're screwed because then we basically have seven top six forwards, one of which may or may not work out.

Plus it's never good when Timonen and Pronger are a year older at this point in their careers.

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07-19-2010, 04:43 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Drop walker to the minors, sign turco 2 mil
i want this

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Old
07-19-2010, 04:43 PM
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These aren't lines, just roster.


CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($2.000m) / James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m)
Claude Giroux ($0.821m) / Ville Leino ($0.800m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m)
/ / Darroll Powe ($0.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Matt Walker ($1.700m)
Sean O'Donnell ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Michael Leighton ($1.550m) /Marty Turco ($2.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,834,763; BONUSES: $937,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $502,737

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07-19-2010, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Plus
You make valid points, but Richards, Carter, Giroux, vanRiemsdyk, Carle, Coburn, and Meszaros are now all a year older as well.

If you think Richards, Carter, and Hartnell won't have better offensive showings in 2010-11, you're out of your mind.

The wildcards are Giroux, Zherdev, and Leino. Will they make up for the loss of Gagne?

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07-19-2010, 04:51 PM
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I must be the only one who doesn't have a problem with Homer's moves. We all knew that Gagne was getting moved. Walker will probably get sent to the minors or put on waivers. I don't think Homer's done yet. He fixed up the defense by getting Mezaros and O'Donnell. Signing Zherdev to a 1 year deal let's him see what Zherdev can do in our offense. I think that Leino and Giroux will have better seasons and face it, no one is as injury prone as Simon was.

He knows Turco is out there and would be a great addition. Let's hold off on burning him at the stake just yet.

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07-19-2010, 04:57 PM
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For all the talk about how great of an owner Snider is, he is a ****ing retard, there I said it.

Holmgren should have been fired as soon as he gave out the Jones deal.

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07-19-2010, 05:00 PM
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Copy/Paste my post here:

We have the same team as last year, but improved.

I know the trades and signings look ****** now, but they really do add depth and improve the team.

Zherdev replaced by Gagne (Yes he is capable of as many points as Gagne)

The goaltending is the same, which diss the tandem or not, they got us to the finals.

I don't have to explain the Defence, if you don't see how our D has improved tenfold I can't help you. We have 3 ppl who can slot in for the sixth D, which if you don't expect another trade is a good plan. You have back-ups for injuries, plus you can rotate these guys in, who obviously play better in stretches when they don't have to play every single game.

Seriously, I know nothing big has happened, but there's only so much you can do... Holmgren ain't doing THAT bad a of job folks.

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07-19-2010, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
For all the talk about how great of an owner Snider is, he is a ****ing retard, there I said it.

Holmgren should have been fired as soon as he gave out the Jones deal.
Snider cares about results.

As long as we're winning, capable of winning, and selling t-shirts, he's more than happy with the job Holmgren is doing.

Let's face it. We were good enough to go to the Finals last year. Washington and Pittsburgh are overrated, though they might have improved this past offseason. We're still the upper echelon of NHL teams with the sickest defense I've ever seen.

Right now we're just arguing and all upset because Holmgren isn't making the most of his moves. He could have done better. Yes, he made us a little better, but right now, our entire frustration is based on the theory that he could have made us even better than we are right now this offseason.

I'm as mad as anyone, but that's the truth. We're arguing not because Holmgren failed to make us better but instead because we're afraid that since he didn't go about it a specific way that in the end his moves will be futile.

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07-19-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAVgal View Post
I must be the only one who doesn't have a problem with Homer's moves. We all knew that Gagne was getting moved. Walker will probably get sent to the minors or put on waivers. I don't think Homer's done yet. He fixed up the defense by getting Mezaros and O'Donnell. Signing Zherdev to a 1 year deal let's him see what Zherdev can do in our offense. I think that Leino and Giroux will have better seasons and face it, no one is as injury prone as Simon was.

He knows Turco is out there and would be a great addition. Let's hold off on burning him at the stake just yet.
i, too, once defended holmgren. but then he went full retard.

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07-19-2010, 05:17 PM
  #21
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If he doesn't resign here in Atlanta, Maxim Afinogenov would be a good 1 year deal stopgap sort of guy to replace Gagne

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07-19-2010, 05:24 PM
  #22
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We all knew this was going to happen. Why is everyone so angry? I can see why he didn't trade a Hartnell or a Carter. Because they aren't nearly as injury prone as Gagne was. I don't hate Homer but I'm not a big fan either. He is doing his job based on what he has to work with.

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07-19-2010, 05:27 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Snider cares about results.

As long as we're winning, capable of winning, and selling t-shirts, he's more than happy with the job Holmgren is doing.

Let's face it. We were good enough to go to the Finals last year. Washington and Pittsburgh are overrated, though they might have improved this past offseason. We're still the upper echelon of NHL teams with the sickest defense I've ever seen.

Right now we're just arguing and all upset because Holmgren isn't making the most of his moves. He could have done better. Yes, he made us a little better, but right now, our entire frustration is based on the theory that he could have made us even better than we are right now this offseason.

I'm as mad as anyone, but that's the truth. We're arguing not because Holmgren failed to make us better but instead because we're afraid that since he didn't go about it a specific way that in the end his moves will be futile.
Lets put aside whether he's ignored the most glaring hole on this roster (goaltending) and go back to my long-term complaint about Holmgren, his horrid cap management.

Paul Holmgren has added $8.3M to our cap for next season in the persons of Shelley, Meszaros, Walker, and Leighton. So those run right into the summer of re-signing Carter and Giroux (without getting the goalie that we really need -- still). Only Leighton will expire heading into JVR's next contract.

It would be one thing if he was addressing real needs in adding cap space (if he got us a real no. 1 goalie, I'd be fine with adding some cap going forward...), but he's added unnecessary expense to our D and pushed a developing guy (Bartulis) off the back of the roster -- ever wonder why we struggle to develop D men? And stood pat in goal, where we really needed improvement.

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07-19-2010, 05:31 PM
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I suggest cruising the Blue Jackets boards for a few days, then coming back here.

Quite a humbling experience.

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07-19-2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lets put aside whether he's ignored the most glaring hole on this roster (goaltending) and go back to my long-term complaint about Holmgren, his horrid cap management.

Paul Holmgren has added $8.3M to our cap for next season in the persons of Shelley, Meszaros, Walker, and Leighton. So those run right into the summer of re-signing Carter and Giroux (without getting the goalie that we really need -- still). Only Leighton will expire heading into JVR's next contract.

It would be one thing if he was addressing real needs in adding cap space (if he got us a real no. 1 goalie, I'd be fine with adding some cap going forward...), but he's added unnecessary expense to our D and pushed a developing guy (Bartulis) off the back of the roster -- ever wonder why we struggle to develop D men? And stood pat in goal, where we really needed improvement.
We're in WIN NOW mode I guess. As in: THIS YEAR. lmao.

If Flyers don't win the Cup this year, boy oh boy....

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