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Gagne Would Only Waive To Tampa

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:17 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Thats not how Gagne wanted it to go, he wouldn't have waived if it went down differently. Read the ****ing arcticle.
Oh well the ARTICLE has all the ****ing answers. Relax. If the player is backing you into a corner you do not need to be in, then you walk away. As someone else stated, it's July 19 - not October 1. Trade someone else. Figure something else out. But you don't put yourself in a position where you've been castrated at the bargaining table.

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07-19-2010, 09:17 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jules801 View Post
I don't know if I would've called myself a Homer apologist, but I wasn't a hater. Believe it or not, I had faith in him. Even up until yesterday I had hope that he'd pull something out... even if it meant trading Gags -- but to get us a great return.

Not now. Not today. I'm with Shafer. There was no reason to trade Gags for a **** return if he didn't sign Jody ****ing Shelly, and resigning Coburn, Leighton, and Carcillo.

Unless he pulls something our of his ass and does something amazing, there's no excusing him for this.
The thing that makes this so much worse is the **** Simon has done and been through with the team. I mean, guys like Upshall and Marty Biron, maybe I liked them, but ultimately, they were only here for a couple years.

Simon on the other hand has been here for a decade. He was here for the collapse against the Devs, here for those epic Leafs' clashes, here during Foppa, etc. I think Gags had the best season by a Flyers forward since Lindros' Hart season when he scored 41 goals and finished with a positive +/- rating on one of the worst teams in recent NHL history.

He peaked as a player during those 2 years when the rest of the team was a pile of crap, and did he ever say anything? Hell no, he went around his business and was one of the best wingers in the game. Then you fast-forward to this season where he was really suffering for much of the year, wasn't healthy, and still dragged himself out there on a nightly basis. Think about his 2010 POs where dragged us back into the Bruins series.

Outside of Mike Richards (who hasn't been here for half as long) and maybe Primeau (again, not here as long), I don't know if there's another Flyers forward since maybe Poulin (you can throw Brindy in there if you want) who exemplifies Flyers values like Simon Gagne.

Speed, grit, toughness, determination, skill, commitment, teamwork, heart. Gagne had all of those in spades. He turned himself into one of the best defensive players in the game and a 40-goal scorer. Though he's not a loud guy, he always led by example. You never saw games where you thought, "Man, Simon just looks disinterested tonight." This guy laid it on the line for us for every single night for more than a decade.

And we jettison him to the curb so that we can pick up Nikolai Zherdev, Michael Leighton, and Jody Shelley? That's a ****ing crock. The Flyers organization has ALWAYS had a reputation for treating their players well, but what happened today really puts that standing in doubt.

Simon Gagne was a player who represented nearly every positive Flyers' value and wanted to retire as a Flyer. He's someone that understands the city, understands the passion of the fans, and will always give 100% out there.

You do not trade guys like that.

Unless you're Paul Holmgren.

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07-19-2010, 09:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
"hometown Montreal Canadiens..." Gagne grew up as a HUGE Nordiques fan and has HATED the Habs his whole life. Not sure he would actually want to play for them, or that he would ever refer to them as "hometown". It is like someone growing up a Flyers fan and then referring to Sh*ttsburgh as their "hometown team". Same province, different team.

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:19 PM
  #79
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^^^ Maybe, Tampa is a decent organization with a sound foundation and there is nothing that says Detroit or Philadelphia or the Kings are a SURE bet. There are no certainties today in the NHL so you take care of yourself and make sure you're in a situation where you at least have a chance to win. Even Hossa couldn't get the whole cup chase thing right on the first two go rounds and he basically had a choice of the three best teams in the business.

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07-19-2010, 09:19 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Thats not how Gagne wanted it to go, he wouldn't have waived if it went down differently. Read the ****ing arcticle.
He wouldn't have waived it unless we were put into a position with zero negotiating leverage? Riiiiiiiiight.

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:20 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastieboy View Post
"hometown Montreal Canadiens..." Gagne grew up as a HUGE Nordiques fan and has HATED the Habs his whole life. Not sure he would actually want to play for them, or that he would ever refer to them as "hometown". It is like someone growing up a Flyers fan and then referring to Sh*ttsburgh as their "hometown team". Same province, different team.
According to news reports Gagne went to Montreal first but they told him that they didn't have the room for him. Whether that is true or not I do not know.

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:25 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
Oh well the ARTICLE has all the ****ing answers. Relax. If the player is backing you into a corner you do not need to be in, then you walk away. As someone else stated, it's July 19 - not October 1. Trade someone else. Figure something else out. But you don't put yourself in a position where you've been castrated at the bargaining table.
Who else could he trade? He wasn't gonna touch the D. So Hartnell or Carter? And you replace them with who?

No one would have given fair value with the situation the team is in(for any player). Gagne was gonna go one way or the other, I believe that decision was made even before they got Mezsaros and others.

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07-19-2010, 09:31 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
He wouldn't have waived it unless we were put into a position with zero negotiating leverage? Riiiiiiiiight.
Thats what the arcticle says basically.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:01 PM
  #84
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I know people are upset about Gagne but he wasn't coming back after this season. Gagne is someone that was going to be moved either now or in the next offseason. The Flyers need space to resign Giroux Carter and Leino. The problem I have with this situation is the return which I believe was a result of Gagne only waiving to Tampa.I'm kind of annoyed at Gagne but I can't fault him for wanting to go where he wanted to go. All we are missing is the Gagne's last season. He was gone anyway.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:13 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
It’s the first time that I have been traded.
Amazing, in this day and age.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:57 PM
  #86
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Gagne spoke to 10 teams.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...flyers/1109846

Quote:
"He asked me about Tampa," Lecavalier said. "He asked me about the city and the fans, everything surrounding the organization. I told him it would be a great situation for him."
Quote:
"I'm a big fan of his," said former Lightning coach Rick Tocchet, who played with Gagne in Philadelphia from 2000 to 2002. "Great speed, underrated shot, good passer, a good power-play guy, a very good penalty killer. He's a 20-minute guy. He's going to add a lot to that hockey club."

If he is healthy.

Gagne, 6 feet, 195 pounds, missed 24 games last season with groin and abdominal muscle problems that required surgery, though he still managed 17 goals and 40 points and had nine goals (two winners) and 12 points in 19 playoff games. He missed four playoff games with a broken toe from blocking a shot.

"Tell the fans, I'll try to block a shot with my pads next time and not my feet," Gagne joked.

Gagne had double-hernia surgery after the 2006-07 season, played just 25 games in 2007-08 because of post-concussion syndrome and had hip surgery after 2008-09.

"Obviously, it is a concern," Yzerman said. "If it was a multiyear contract, it would be a concern. But we felt with Simon going into the final year of his contract, we have a very motivated player. I just think it was worth doing. I'm comfortable that he's healthy and he'll start the season healthy."

"I'm 100 percent healthy," Gagne said. "If you look at my 10 years in the league, maybe I only had three tough years. Yes, I had some surgeries done, but most of the surgery I had was in the offseason, so I was able to play with pain. Most of the time I was healthy, and when I'm healthy, I know what I can do."

Yzerman knows, too. He played with Gagne on Canada's 2002 gold-medal Olympic team, which featured Gagne on the top line with center Joe Sakic and Jarome Iginla.

"Getting a chance to play with Simon … you learn the type of person he is, where he would fit in," Yzerman said. "Playing together in '02 just gave me a little more information when I made this decision."

Gagne said his decision to leave the Flyers (the team that made him a 1998 first-round pick and with which he was named the NHL's 2000 rookie of the year) was not taken lightly and made only because he had some control of the process.

"The only way I was going to waive my no-trade clause was if the Flyers gave me the okay to talk to other teams," Gagne said, adding he spoke to 10.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:51 PM
  #87
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So, yeah, the fact that Homer had 10 teams to talk to makes this even worse.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:54 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So, yeah, the fact that Homer had 10 teams to talk to makes this even worse.
Agreed.

I find it very hard to believe that the slop Holmgren got for Gagne was the best deal possible.

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Old
07-20-2010, 12:35 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
I know people are upset about Gagne but he wasn't coming back after this season. Gagne is someone that was going to be moved either now or in the next offseason. The Flyers need space to resign Giroux Carter and Leino. The problem I have with this situation is the return which I believe was a result of Gagne only waiving to Tampa.I'm kind of annoyed at Gagne but I can't fault him for wanting to go where he wanted to go. All we are missing is the Gagne's last season. He was gone anyway.
We all want to win the Cup right? Explain this to me: how the **** Matt Walker and a 4th round pick help us win more than Gagne? How does Andrej Meszaros help us win more than Gagne? How the **** do Michael Leighton and Jody ****ing Shelley help us win more than Gagne?

I would rather have one year of Simon Gagne and lose him for absolutely NOTHING (that's saying that we're unable to trade his rights for anything) than have Meszaros for four years, Walker for three, Shelley for three, Leighton for two, and a ****ing 4th round pick that this moron of a GM will either A. piss away in another salary dump or B. use on someone with only size like Garrett ****ing Klotz.

There is no defending this move. None.

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Old
07-20-2010, 01:21 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Agreed.

I find it very hard to believe that the slop Holmgren got for Gagne was the best deal possible.
that was and should be best deal possible for Gagne... talking to 10 teams by Gagne's agent don't mean bidding war by them

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Old
07-20-2010, 06:26 AM
  #91
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*ringring*

Homer: Hello Steve. You know what, we gotta trade Gagne but TBL is the only team he'll waive his NTC for. You guys interested?

Stevie: Nah not really, Paulie. Sorry...

Homer: But you're the only organization he'll waive his clause and we gotta trade him away!

Stevie: Well, we don't really need him...

Homer: Steve please! I beg you!

Stevie: Hmmh.. guess we could take him if the price is right.

Homer: What do you have to offer?

Stevie: Matty Walker and a 2nd.

Homer: Oh come on, what the ****?

Stevie: You not interested?

Homer: **** no.

Stevie: Well, then go trade him elsewhere.

Homer: No no, we can't! What was the offer again?

Stevie: Matt Walker and a 3rd.

Homer: Hey come on, seriously?

Stevie: Matt Walker and a 4th.

Homer: Okey okey! Deal!

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Old
07-20-2010, 06:51 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MiD View Post
that was and should be best deal possible for Gagne... talking to 10 teams by Gagne's agent don't mean bidding war by them
I'm sorry, you are not thinking about this from all angles. First of all Holmgren put himself in this cap situation. Secondly, if the only deal to be made is a bad one, you don't pull the trigger. He could have traded other players, not obtained players (Meszaros/Shelley etc) to increase our cap. If this was based purely on a salary dump, we didn't even accomplish that to an effective degree. We also now have more on our plates for next year when we really come into cap hell.

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Old
07-20-2010, 06:52 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
More idiocy.
Ok, this I have to disagree with. It's idiotic to let a player who's been loyal to your team for what, 8 years, talk to teams so he can pick and choose where he'd want to go rather than just waive him and run the risk of him landing on a crappy team?

The way Ed Snider and the organization treats the players is what makes this one of the top organizations in the league to work for, and it's often why a lot of people quickly consider Philly as a good possibility to sign with. Briere's a good example of that, ignoring the whole taxes thing. Biron talked up the team and got Danny to come here.

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07-20-2010, 07:13 AM
  #94
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If this was the best deal then he should have been waived. You dont take on the contract of a #6 dman with a 1.7 cap hit. That is plain dumb. Randy Jones all over again.

Anyone that belives Tampa was th eonyl team he would waive it to is foolish.

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07-20-2010, 07:16 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
If this was the best deal then he should have been waived. You dont take on the contract of a #6 dman with a 1.7 cap hit. That is plain dumb. Randy Jones all over again.

Anyone that belives Tampa was th eonyl team he would waive it to is foolish.
But anyone that believes that of the teams that Gagne chose, all the others definitely wanted to make a trade for him, is just as foolish. The FA Market this year is so bizarre Turco isn't signed and Kovalchuk wasn't signed until yesterday. By now, most teams know what they want.

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Old
07-20-2010, 07:32 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
I'm sorry, you are not thinking about this from all angles. First of all Holmgren put himself in this cap situation. Secondly, if the only deal to be made is a bad one, you don't pull the trigger. He could have traded other players, not obtained players (Meszaros/Shelley etc) to increase our cap. If this was based purely on a salary dump, we didn't even accomplish that to an effective degree. We also now have more on our plates for next year when we really come into cap hell.
my post only respones to CG about best deal possible... in fact I'm fully agree with your post... I lost faith in Homer sanity around end of June

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07-20-2010, 07:33 AM
  #97
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Gagne was going to be traded no matter what. When the season ended, Holmgren identified him as someone he was going to trade and that was that...Gagne himself said that they came to him a month ago (not too long after the Finals).

I'm still very, very confused by this. 5.25 + 2nd pick for 4 + 1.7 (both at multiple years) + a 4th ---- that's not a good deal, and that's without taking the fact that it was GAGNE into account.

The only way I see this as a win is if we magically get one of the Kings' goalies (trading Carle or something), which I don't think will happen. I'm really baffled by this. I just wanna grill Holmgren.

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Old
07-20-2010, 08:03 AM
  #98
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It's nice and all that the players know Holmgren and the administration have their best interest at heart, even beyond the six-figure paycheques they receive every other Thursday and all the perks of being a professional athlete. But Paul Holmgren's job is to make his franchise as strong as it can possibly be, no? After every other deal he has made this off-season, whether I agreed or not (mostly the latter), at least I could say that he hadn't weakened the roster. Well, now Paul Holmgren has weakened the roster without any significant benefit. It's arguable, to say the least, that Walker + a 4th is better than just waiving Gagné and pocketing the full $5.25 mil cap space.

But warm-hearted Paul Holmgren couldn't do that to a longstanding veteran of this proud franchise, could he? Better to just latch onto a mediocre D who eats into the cap freedom and a pick in a round that doesn't require setting the alarm the night before.

Anyone with at least half a brain could see where the various off-season deals were leading: a position of weakness. Need help on the 3rd D pairing? Let's trade for, not sign, one defenseman with a large cap hit and sign another at a total cap hit of $5 million. Getting close to the cap? Doesn't matter; let's sign a goon! So then, to the surprise of no one, Holmgren targets a player with an NTC to move and allows the player to dictate where he will go. Very nice for Mr. and Mrs. Gagné and all the little Gagnés; this will warm my heart in February when this team is going into their usual late-winter swoon, probably as a result of the single most pressing need of the offseason – goaltending – not being addressed. But at least we have enough "warriors" on this squad!! Because that's what wins games, you know. How on earth did Holmgren come to the MENSA-like realization that our warrior quotient was a bit south of where it needs to be to equate to an additional two wins in the Stanley Cup finals?????

I just cannot rationalize that, even with zero leverage, Holmgren couldn't have received from TBay a) a higher draft pick than 4th in what's anticipated to be, according to the gurus, one of the weakest drafts in years, and/or b) a player who wouldn't eat ONE POINT SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS of the cap space that was sought in dealing Gagné in the first place. Add to that the anti-logic of adding a third defenseman this off-season, meaning at least $1 million will have to be sent to the AHL. And what's the over/under for dates that Holmgren will try to bring Walker back up through waivers?

I just can't wait for what's next. Giroux for Orr? Richards for Probert?

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07-20-2010, 08:13 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Exactly!!

I am going to sound like a broken record here..... $3 million tied up in Shelley and Walker, assuming he isnt buried in the minors. And if they were going to do that, why get him to begin with?? There is no defending this offseason. NONE

The only good move was Odonnell, thats it.
Maybe you didn't see the presser. Walker solidifies our defense. Doesn't look like he's going to the minors.

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07-20-2010, 08:47 AM
  #100
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I just can't wait for what's next. Giroux for Orr? Richards for Probert?
We already have one zombie...


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