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Old
07-19-2010, 09:28 PM
  #51
Gert B Frobe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Waiving O'Donnell and Walker frees up another $3.00m in cap space leaving the following defense:

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - Bartulis
zzzzzzzzzz

That puts us at $4.44m to spend minus the cost of a 7th.

Waiving O'Donnell puts us at $2.74m with no defenseman to get. Waiving Walker puts us at $3.14m.
I can't say exactly why but I doubt Holmgren would waive O'Donnell - not sure about Walker. I think Meszaros is better than Coburn and Carle, but there is no sense in splitting the Pronger/Carle pairing up. Coburn and O'Donnell would be an awesome 3rd pairing - even better than Chicago's 3rd pairing last season.

Money must absolutely be found for Turco. It is so painfully obvious that this team needs a veteran to compete with Leighton and then take over for the playoffs. Holmgren must see this - he MUST SEE THIS!!!

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:41 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Looking at what a team adds without also looking at what they lost is useless.

Pens added: Michalek and Martin
Pens subtractd: Gonchar, Ponikarovsky, Fedotenko, Guerin, Leopold, Eaton
With 2.9M in cap space

Devs added: Volchenkov, Arnott
Devs subtracted: Martin, McAmmond, Skoula, Neidermayer
With -2.3M in cap space (assuming Kovy got 6M per year)

Flyers added: Meszaros, Zherdev, O'Donnell, Shelley, Walker
Flyers subtracted: Gagne, Asham, Krajicek
With 1M in cap space

Not doing the Rangers. They didn't add anyone of significance.
Pens: Michalek and Martin are a small improvement over the loss of Gonchar (because there are 2 of them) - but they take a huge hit on their PP. The forwards and Eaton are replaceable but they don't have the money to improve any more. Crosby and Malkin still have no wingers at all. Gonchar was a HUGE part of their offense beyond just points - they would need a guy like Boyle or Campbell to replace that and neither of those 2 are as good as Gonchar defensively and they can't afford them anyway. meh

Devils: Volchenkov has declined and without Martin their defense became a lot less mobile. They didn't lose or gain anything else of significance. Oh yeah and their goalie still sucks. That's right, I said it - Brodeur sucks. meh

Rangers: Lundqvist will keep them competitive but other than that they are still the smufs - and they added one of the biggest liabilities in the league in Boogard.

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:58 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl;
Not really. Emery got a number of wins before getting injured. Leighton and Boucher were extremely lucky to face the teams they did in the playoffs, until the finals. Then when faced with a team with a real offense, we all know what happened.

If the Flyers had had to face Washington or Pittsburgh along the way, I don't believe for a moment that they go to the Cup Finals.
can't believe how many flyer fans chalk this Stanley cup run, the best run of my life up to luck and good fortune!!!!!! Didn't you watch these guys give everything they had for 14 wins? Your willing to say to pen and cap fans that we never would have beaton them? Who the **** does everyone cheer for? I would NEVER gives those teams a win over the flyers without earning it.......I can't wait for the season to start, I love the flyers and need my fix, but these boards just confuse me. My buddy the Crosby fan sells me the same **** daily, even he agrees the pens didn't have it last year. Malkin off year, fleury sucked, but we all agree they would have ended our season easily? After briere, hartnell, leino, gagne, richards, pronger, Boucher, leighton, et all did what they did? I am proud of that team! If you are interested in discussing how the flyers should have won game 2 and 6 and would have won 7, letme know!

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07-19-2010, 10:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
can't believe how many flyer fans chalk this Stanley cup run, the best run of my life up to luck and good fortune!!!!!! Didn't you watch these guys give everything they had for 14 wins? Your willing to say to pen and cap fans that we never would have beaton them? Who the **** does everyone cheer for? I would NEVER gives those teams a win over the flyers without earning it.......I can't wait for the season to start, I love the flyers and need my fix, but these boards just confuse me. My buddy the Crosby fan sells me the same **** daily, even he agrees the pens didn't have it last year. Malkin off year, fleury sucked, but we all agree they would have ended our season easily? After briere, hartnell, leino, gagne, richards, pronger, Boucher, leighton, et all did what they did? I am proud of that team! If you are interested in discussing how the flyers should have won game 2 and 6 and would have won 7, letme know!
Um, not interested. It's July 19th, and it was one of the worst days in Flyers history.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:18 PM
  #55
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just a quick question, why is leino cheaper than carcillo? wtf

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:24 PM
  #56
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Proposal

Proposal:
Trade Matt Carle to Colorado for Milan Hejduk. Hejduk is an experienced sniper with a Stanley Cup ring. In addition, he only has 1 year remaining at $3M. As a result, his contract would not complicate the potential re-signing of Jeff Carter. If Matt Walker is truly here to stay, Carle figures to be the odd man out. So, let's get another scorer for him. Then, we can sign Turco for a $2M cap hit max and waive Boucher and Cote.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:43 PM
  #57
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It's also the reality that our d-men in the AHL currently will probably never see the light of day for the Flyers because Homer pretty much has everyone locked up. I'm surprised he trusts ANY rookies...

Also, I have a bad feeling this will turn out like the 06-07 season and then hire a REAL GM after our ****** one gets fired.

Anybody for Carle, Carcillo, and Boucher for Hecht and Enroth?

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:46 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordsie View Post
Proposal:
Trade Matt Carle to Colorado for Milan Hejduk. Hejduk is an experienced sniper with a Stanley Cup ring. In addition, he only has 1 year remaining at $3M. As a result, his contract would not complicate the potential re-signing of Jeff Carter. If Matt Walker is truly here to stay, Carle figures to be the odd man out. So, let's get another scorer for him. Then, we can sign Turco for a $2M cap hit max and waive Boucher and Cote.
Not a bad trade, but it only highlights how bad this offseason was.

Gagné for Hedjuk
Carle for Meszaros

2 downgrades at key positions and about 1M in cap savings. Ugh

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:52 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
can't believe how many flyer fans chalk this Stanley cup run, the best run of my life up to luck and good fortune!!!!!! Didn't you watch these guys give everything they had for 14 wins? Your willing to say to pen and cap fans that we never would have beaton them? Who the **** does everyone cheer for? I would NEVER gives those teams a win over the flyers without earning it.......I can't wait for the season to start, I love the flyers and need my fix, but these boards just confuse me. My buddy the Crosby fan sells me the same **** daily, even he agrees the pens didn't have it last year. Malkin off year, fleury sucked, but we all agree they would have ended our season easily? After briere, hartnell, leino, gagne, richards, pronger, Boucher, leighton, et all did what they did? I am proud of that team! If you are interested in discussing how the flyers should have won game 2 and 6 and would have won 7, letme know!
The Flyers had a much easier run to the Cup Finals than they might have had. Things fell into place far better than anyone could have hoped. Instead of running through Washington and Pittsburgh, they faced Boston and Montreal - neither of whom has a potent offense and neither of whom could expose Leighton/Boucher for the goalies they are.

I love the heart we saw, and certain players stepping up at differing times throughout that magical run. It was the most fun I've had as a Flyers fan in years.

But let's not pretend that Leighton and Boucher were the reason the Flyers got to where they did. They both played very well for career backup goalies. But if they had to face Crosby, Malkin (even with his off year), Ovechkin, and Semin, I'm not confident the Flyers would have won. We'll never know.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:56 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SympathyForTheDevils View Post
Not a bad trade, but it only highlights how bad this offseason was.

Gagné for Hedjuk
Carle for Meszaros

2 downgrades at key positions and about 1M in cap savings. Ugh
Given the hand we've been dealt, I think this improves the team now. We can't reverse Homer's prior moves. Hejduk is a pure sniper who may score more than Gagne this season. He's a Cup winner on a 1 year deal who fits a need.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:07 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
can't believe how many flyer fans chalk this Stanley cup run, the best run of my life up to luck and good fortune!!!!!! Didn't you watch these guys give everything they had for 14 wins? Your willing to say to pen and cap fans that we never would have beaton them? Who the **** does everyone cheer for? I would NEVER gives those teams a win over the flyers without earning it.......I can't wait for the season to start, I love the flyers and need my fix, but these boards just confuse me. My buddy the Crosby fan sells me the same **** daily, even he agrees the pens didn't have it last year. Malkin off year, fleury sucked, but we all agree they would have ended our season easily? After briere, hartnell, leino, gagne, richards, pronger, Boucher, leighton, et all did what they did? I am proud of that team! If you are interested in discussing how the flyers should have won game 2 and 6 and would have won 7, letme know!
Pens and Caps would have opened Leighton up like the tin can he was... just as Chicago did.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:15 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordsie View Post
Given the hand we've been dealt, I think this improves the team now. We can't reverse Homer's prior moves. Hejduk is a pure sniper who may score more than Gagne this season. He's a Cup winner on a 1 year deal who fits a need.
I agree with you on this. Still, Hejduk is basically a 4 years older Gagné. He hasn't broken 60 points in 3 years and missed as many games as Gagné last year. It might be worth it to keep players like Carcillo and Shelley off the top 9. The downside is once Richards sees he's gonna spend the season with Zherdev and Hejduk, he might have to be put on suicide watch.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:21 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Or waive loser of O'Donnell/Walker in camp, and have some extra cap space. Don't like that as much as waving Bartulis, because we will likely not get either of them back through re-entry waivers.
O'Donnell wasn't signed on the first day of free agency just to be waived after training camp.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:24 PM
  #64
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I think were set. Were definitely not moving a defensemen, and I doubt we bring in another forward. I expect them to sign Turco and trade Boucher. Turco will get desperate around late August and will be willing to sign for around 2 million. Powe will be re-signed for around 750K.

(So weird not starting out with Gagne)

JVR-Richards-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Carter-Giroux
Shelley-Betts-Laperriere
*Powe

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-O'Donnel
*Walker

Turco
Leighton

Tell you the truth, it's not so bad. Just hurts to loose someone like Gagne, especially when it wouldn't have been hard to keep him.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:42 PM
  #65
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O'Donnell wasn't signed on the first day of free agency just to be waived after training camp.
Totally agree and you beat me to it...O'Donnell makes this roster and will certainly not be waived, he is a friendly cap hit who can be relied on as a 5/6.

As far as Walker goes, his term is a bit long but we could see something along the lines of what Detroit did when we moved OKT for Leino. A trade to waive and shed cap.

I have to believe that Homer has discussed a number/term with Turco and these moves were made with that in mind.

If Gagne's money was split between Zherdev and Turco each for one year deals AND we don't sacrifice Carle for nothing in an attempt to fit Walker in without waiving I will be able to live with all of this.

This is all ultimately going to judged on Homer's ability to assume correctly that Carter is a beast that we can resign along with Giroux next season. If Carter's value takes a dip when his dealing this summer could have fetched us a feast while keeping Gags expiring contract then we all will have less hair on our heads in the near future.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:48 PM
  #66
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Pens and Caps would have opened Leighton up like the tin can he was... just as Chicago did.
Yeah, as much as I love that post-season run, it was extremely fortunate and lucky (in several different ways).

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Old
07-20-2010, 01:02 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Pens and Caps would have opened Leighton up like the tin can he was... just as Chicago did.
i hope everyone who isn't illiterate paid attention to this, because its pretty important, and correct

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Old
07-20-2010, 01:29 AM
  #68
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For all the talk about how great of an owner Snider is, he is a ****ing retard, there I said it.

Holmgren should have been fired as soon as he gave out the Jones deal.
I said it in the trade thread in my rant. Snider had the power to nix/veto that cluster**** and he didnt. Instead he let Holmgren **** all over this organization. **** Snider. He will probably fire Lavi and bring in that assmunch from the Phantoms if things start to go south.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Not really. Emery got a number of wins before getting injured. Leighton and Boucher were extremely lucky to face the teams they did in the playoffs, until the finals. Then when faced with a team with a real offense, we all know what happened.

If the Flyers had had to face Washington or Pittsburgh along the way, I don't believe for a moment that they go to the Cup Finals.
What if the Flyers had finished 8th in the conferance and been chewed up and spit out in round 1. Think this offseason would of been differant? Snider is going to give Holmgren a free pass for awhile after last season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
One big difference:

Rangers: have a franchise goaltender and a decent backup
Pens - have a franchise goaltender and a decent backup
Devils - have an aging, but still franchise goaltender (and have now added a huge offensive weapon)

Flyers have.... nothing. Not even a decent backup.
While I dont agree MAF is a franchise goalie, he is better then anything we have. Or have had for many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Fleury is hardly a franchise goalie.

MAF>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything we have had since Hextall

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
can't believe how many flyer fans chalk this Stanley cup run, the best run of my life up to luck and good fortune!!!!!! Didn't you watch these guys give everything they had for 14 wins? Your willing to say to pen and cap fans that we never would have beaton them? Who the **** does everyone cheer for? I would NEVER gives those teams a win over the flyers without earning it.......I can't wait for the season to start, I love the flyers and need my fix, but these boards just confuse me. My buddy the Crosby fan sells me the same **** daily, even he agrees the pens didn't have it last year. Malkin off year, fleury sucked, but we all agree they would have ended our season easily? After briere, hartnell, leino, gagne, richards, pronger, Boucher, leighton, et all did what they did? I am proud of that team! If you are interested in discussing how the flyers should have won game 2 and 6 and would have won 7, letme know!

You really are something else. You really want to defend what he did on Monday? that was complete and utter ********. Cup finals run? right now who gives a rats ass. Holmgren has taken a big **** over everything this offseason. So take your positive attitude, your Holmgren can do no wrong attitude and go away. I am in no freakin mood and I seriously doubt anyone else is.
**** Holmgren
**** Snider
Leighton sucks and so does Boucher.

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Old
07-20-2010, 01:33 AM
  #69
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STOP saying washington would beat us in the playoffs. That team has yet to do dick, DICK in the playoffs. They can't even get thru a ****ing series in less then 7 games. And I'm pretty sure Jose Theodore would have gotten open up like a tin-can by us as well.


Last edited by TheLegendkiller: 07-20-2010 at 02:16 AM.
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Old
07-20-2010, 01:43 AM
  #70
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STOP saying washington would beat us in the playoffs. That team hs yet to o dick, DICK in the playoffs. The can't even get thru a ****ing series in less then 7 games. And I'm pretty sure Jose Theodore would have gotten open up like a tin-can by us as well.
LOL
AO, Semin, Backstrom,Knuble ect ect would have lit up Leighton in the first round he would have a 2nd degree burn on the back of his neck from the red light going on
we would have scored 4 or 5 on Theodore but they would be hanging snowmen on the ****fest know as Leighton and Boucher.


Last edited by GoneFullHolmgren: 07-20-2010 at 02:07 AM.
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Old
07-20-2010, 01:51 AM
  #71
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Shoulda coulda woulda...It didn't happen. There is a reason the Penguins and Captials lost last year in a 7 game series. A team shut down their only source of offense and exposed the pylons they employ on the blue line.

What makes everyone so confident Semin, AO, Malkin and Crosby would get enough quality (even against Leighton) scoring chances against a fresh Pronger, Coburn, Carle and Timonen.

I understand it is a bad day, but don't give overhyped teams something they didn't deserve and our crew rightfully EARNED. The Caps and Penguins were exposed last year, hopefully Lavi understands how to play them and the players like Pronger and Richards and Giroux and Carter and Timonen step up. Next year is a different year, but what has Washington and Pittsburgh done to improve their chances in a gritty 7 game series?

Those "Eastern Powerhouses" are still just as soft and heartless as last year.

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07-20-2010, 01:57 AM
  #72
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You really are something else. You really want to defend what he did on Monday? that was complete and utter ********. Cup finals run? right now who gives a rats ass. Holmgren has taken a big **** over everything this offseason. So take your positive attitude, your Holmgren can do no wrong attitude and go away. I am in no freakin mood and I seriously doubt anyone else is.
**** Holmgren
**** Snider
Leighton sucks and so does Boucher.
This

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Old
07-20-2010, 02:01 AM
  #73
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STOP saying washington would beat us in the playoffs. That team hs yet to o dick, DICK in the playoffs. The can't even get thru a ****ing series in less then 7 games. And I'm pretty sure Jose Theodore would have gotten open up like a tin-can by us as well.
We certainly would have scored... we scored on Niemi. Wasn't enough.

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Old
07-20-2010, 02:05 AM
  #74
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just a quick question, why is leino cheaper than carcillo? wtf
Pretty sure he is on an entry level contract

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07-20-2010, 02:19 AM
  #75
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We certainly would have scored... we scored on Niemi. Wasn't enough.


But Washington isn't Chicago. They can't get past the second round to save their ****ing lives. The series would have been 7 games but I guarrantee washington would fall the **** apart by game 7 against us. The ****ing Habs shut down their top line. The ****ing habs. And we wouldn't be getting hemped in our zone by Washington getting out shot 50-21 either.


And maybe over-coming all this adversity this season will make us mentally tougher aginst the pens, since we usually pack it in whenever they tie the game.

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