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Old
07-20-2010, 03:50 AM
  #76
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I can't wait till we have Bobrovsky and Eriksson owning everyone. Somehow getting Gagne back. Signing good players in our system and bring them up. Getting rid of dead weight. Fix this ****ing team. Ok, just saying, I love the guy, but maybe we might have to get rid of Timonen in the next off-season or two, mainly because of his cap. To be honest, I'd like to see what Gustafsson could do to replace him... if he can. I just find that we are in worse cap hell than last season... by a long shot too. I'm just spouting some things on my mind.

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07-20-2010, 03:54 AM
  #77
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And we wouldn't be getting hemped in our zone by Washington getting out shot 50-21 either.
lold hard at that typo. Sorry man it's late

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07-20-2010, 04:02 AM
  #78
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lold hard at that typo. Sorry man it's late
haha, you said "penis."



wait, you didnt? ****, it is late. i blame gin.

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07-20-2010, 07:34 AM
  #79
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Zherdev - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
JvR - Carter - Carcillo
Shelley/Powe* - Betts - Laperriere
Shelley/Powe*

Carle - Pronger
Timonen - Coburn
Walker/O'Donnell* - Meszaros
Walker/O'Donnell*

Turco
Leighton

* = will be swapping. Powe and Shelley depending on the opponent. Walker and O'D just randomly as one is old and the other has never played a full season.

Powe signed for 0.7mil.
Turco signed for 2.0mil.

Cote+Bartulis waived.
Boucher traded for a 7th rd pick.

Should leave us with approx 0.5mil in capspace.


Too bad for Barts, I would've liked to see him play more in the show. He gotta go for re-entries if he's called up? Assuming he's not picked on his way down to AHL...

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07-20-2010, 08:20 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Look at the roster. They down-graded from Gagne to Zherdev. Big down-grade there.

They'll have Carcillo playing in the top nine again.

Powe and Asham are being replaced by Shelley. Big down-grade.

We have eight d-men...which makes no ****ing sense. Meszaros was probably the least desirable option out of all the top four d-men Homer could have gone after. Ask Ottawa and Tampa fans, the guy has been regressing the last four years straight. So our third pairing is improved, but at a massive cost.

Last year we had Emery, Boucher, and Leighton split games so no one had to deal with a starter's load. Even in the playoffs Boosh and Leighton split games. This year we have no Emery and Leighton is going to be given a starter's load. That's a down-grade.

So pretty much a big down-grade in everywhere but defense and even then the upgrade at defensive was excessive and at a large cost.

I also think the East will undoubtedly be better this year (as well as some of the contenders in the West).
Gagne to Zherdev is a lateral move offense wise and maybe even an upgrade. Gagne was slowing down. I will agree, there is a big down grade defensewise.

Carcillo will be playing in the top 9, but he'll be replacing Asham so that is a push or maybe even a slight upgrade on the third line IMO.

The Flyers are probably going to re-sign Powe so he is neither an upgrade or a downgrade.

Shelley will be replacing Cote, so that is an upgrade.

Meszaros, O'Donnell are a huge upgrade over Krajicek and Parent.

The goaltending is the same. Leighton appeared in 34 regluar season games last year and Boucher appeared in 33. So you think splitting an extra 15 games during the regluar season between the two will be a huge difference in terms of workload? There really is no support for that line of reasoning. He's played more then 34 games in 02/03 (44 games), 03/04 (52 games), 04/05 (41 games) and 07/08 (61 games). Shocking as this might seem, but Leighton actually plays better the more often you start him.

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07-20-2010, 09:13 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by CptCannon View Post
Zherdev - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
JvR - Carter - Carcillo
Shelley/Powe* - Betts - Laperriere
Shelley/Powe*

Carle - Pronger
Timonen - Coburn
Walker/O'Donnell* - Meszaros
Walker/O'Donnell*

Turco
Leighton

* = will be swapping. Powe and Shelley depending on the opponent. Walker and O'D just randomly as one is old and the other has never played a full season.

Powe signed for 0.7mil.
Turco signed for 2.0mil.

Cote+Bartulis waived.
Boucher traded for a 7th rd pick.

Should leave us with approx 0.5mil in capspace.


Too bad for Barts, I would've liked to see him play more in the show. He gotta go for re-entries if he's called up? Assuming he's not picked on his way down to AHL...
I came here to lay out almost exactly this.

I'm pretty confident Powe will be back.

NHLnumbers has us about 1 mill under currently and we currently have 13 forwards signed (the 13th being Cote), 8 Defenseman, and 2 goalies.

There are also, I will call them, 2 "players of interest", those being Powe and Turco.

Cote and Powe are almost a wash salary wise. Cote makes 550k and Powe won't command much more. I will say 700k to be conservative. Cote is waived, Powe is signed, results in a net loss of 150kish.

We currently have 8 D-men. I think it's safe to say Bartulis is sent down. Net gain of 600k.

So far we've taken a hit of about 150k (in Powe) and gained 600k (in Bartulis), so we're looking at +450k of space. So we sit at about 1.45 mill in cap space. If we have genuine interest in Turco, or any other goalie, (which I believe we do), we clearly would have no need for Boucher any longer. Boucher could be waived/traded and that's another 900k gained. So we've got about 2.35 million we could allocate towards a goalie, which IMO is more than enough to sign Turco.

In summary....

~1 mill in ACTUAL space
~2.05 in easily lost/unnecessary cap space (Cote, Bartulis, Boucher)
~3.05 in feasible cap space

Powe and Turco could be easily signed, we could have a few hundred K in wiggle room, and we'd field an entire roster of 13 forwards, 7 D, and 2 goalies.

I would like that roster, and think we would be one of the top teams in the East. However, it upsets me because I just feel that Homer made it WAY more difficult than it needs to be and made all of these backwards, roundabout moves when it should have been a straightforward offseason.

I'm a bit sad that I KNOW we will be on the of the best and it will help to mask the atrocity that is/was this offseason.

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07-20-2010, 10:31 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
But Washington isn't Chicago. They can't get past the second round to save their ****ing lives. The series would have been 7 games but I guarrantee washington would fall the **** apart by game 7 against us. The ****ing Habs shut down their top line. The ****ing habs. And we wouldn't be getting hemped in our zone by Washington getting out shot 50-21 either.


And maybe over-coming all this adversity this season will make us mentally tougher aginst the pens, since we usually pack it in whenever they tie the game.
The "Habs" didn't shut down **** against the Caps. Halak did. Leighton wouldn't have. Believe what you will, but I think there is very little chance we're going to have much success against the Pens and Caps with Leighton as our starter.

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07-20-2010, 10:35 AM
  #83
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I must be the only one who doesn't have a problem with Homer's moves. We all knew that Gagne was getting moved. Walker will probably get sent to the minors or put on waivers. I don't think Homer's done yet. He fixed up the defense by getting Mezaros and O'Donnell. Signing Zherdev to a 1 year deal let's him see what Zherdev can do in our offense. I think that Leino and Giroux will have better seasons and face it, no one is as injury prone as Simon was.

He knows Turco is out there and would be a great addition. Let's hold off on burning him at the stake just yet.
This. Am I the only one who thinks that Zherdev isn't that bad? Gagne will be missed, but he has been away for so many stretches over the last 3 years that we all at some point have commented that we should consider moving him. We have a soild core of forward who can play at both ends and we are young. With Gagne being moved it is clearly a deal that was needed for the future, I love Gags but not at the cost of Giroux or JVR or Carter.

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07-20-2010, 10:48 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
This. Am I the only one who thinks that Zherdev isn't that bad? Gagne will be missed, but he has been away for so many stretches over the last 3 years that we all at some point have commented that we should consider moving him. We have a soild core of forward who can play at both ends and we are young. With Gagne being moved it is clearly a deal that was needed for the future, I love Gags but not at the cost of Giroux or JVR or Carter.
Thing is, Gagne was an easy way to keep Giroux/Carter. It would have been a security blanket, an easy way for Holmgren not to accidentally use up all the cap space he'd need to sign them. Gagne's $5.25M comes off the books after this season, and it's used to give those guys raises. Now, we're in trouble.

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07-20-2010, 10:49 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
This. Am I the only one who thinks that Zherdev isn't that bad? Gagne will be missed, but he has been away for so many stretches over the last 3 years that we all at some point have commented that we should consider moving him. We have a soild core of forward who can play at both ends and we are young. With Gagne being moved it is clearly a deal that was needed for the future, I love Gags but not at the cost of Giroux or JVR or Carter.
The issues aren't so much with the players we got, but the expense at which we acquired them.

1) I get the impression almost everyone loves Zherdev at 2 million. I certainly do.
2) Meszaros, I like as a player but he makes a lot of money and it required a 2nd round pick. Some people feel we could have found a comparable player for a) less money b) less/no assetts (read: draft picks) or c) both
3) Allocating 1.1 million in Shelley which wasn't a very pressing need.
4) Signing Leighton on the eve of Free agency when arguably better or comparable goalies signed for roughly the same.
5a) The culmination of 1-4 resulted in us needing to move Gagne and everybody knows it. However, if you took alternative actions for parts 2-4; namely acquiring cheaper options rather than jump the gun and commit so much, so quickly, you MIGHT not have even had to trade him.
5b) But alas, we did have to trade him. And then we got minimal return, and took back a pretty bad contract.

What I'm getting at is....

We needed to do 2 things this offseason:

1) Get a goalie
2) Fix the 3rd pair

Homer decided to not even do #1 (as of yet) and decided to make an intrciate series of moves in order to do #2 which resulted in taking on A LOT of money.

So again, it's not so much an issue with the players we got, it's an issue of how much value they are getting for their dollar.

edit: I keep coming back and adding more haha

Shelley = overpaid
Meszaros = overpaid
Walker = overpaid
Leighton = overpaid (I'd say based on what other goalies signed for)

If you just "spend" those dollars a little more wisely, we could have an equally talented team at a fraction of the cost. Or we could have possibly had a comparable team + Gagne.


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Old
07-20-2010, 10:57 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by facts View Post
This. Am I the only one who thinks that Zherdev isn't that bad? Gagne will be missed, but he has been away for so many stretches over the last 3 years that we all at some point have commented that we should consider moving him. We have a soild core of forward who can play at both ends and we are young. With Gagne being moved it is clearly a deal that was needed for the future, I love Gags but not at the cost of Giroux or JVR or Carter.
...you realize we ADDED salary for future seasons (when Giroux or JVR or Carter may be lost), right? Gagne was our cap relief contract to re-sign Giroux and JVR... he's gone now, and we have Walker, Meszaros, Shelley, and Leighton on our books going into that offseason.

Gagne was gone after next year unless he took a major pay cut, which is fine... but not like this, and not while making your situation next summer worse.

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07-20-2010, 10:59 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...you realize we ADDED salary for future seasons (when Giroux or JVR or Carter may be lost), right? Gagne was our cap relief contract to re-sign Giroux and JVR... he's gone now, and we have Walker, Meszaros, Shelley, and Leighton on our books going into that offseason.

Gagne was gone after next year unless he took a major pay cut, which is fine... but not like this, and not while making your situation next summer worse.
lol the exact 4 contracts I pointed out above you that are costing us way too much money.

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07-20-2010, 11:02 AM
  #88
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lol the exact 4 contracts I pointed out above you that are costing us way too much money.
It's mind boggling. This offseason was deceptively simple for Holmgren. He had a limited number of things he needed to do, but a priority was being as flexible as possible going into next summer. He's *ed that up good and proper. Ideally he re-signs one of Giroux/Carter here prior to the season so that we at least know what is going on cap wise (preferably Giroux since he isn't arbitration eligible).

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07-20-2010, 11:05 AM
  #89
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It's mind boggling. This offseason was deceptively simple for Holmgren. He had a limited number of things he needed to do, but a priority was being as flexible as possible going into next summer. He's *ed that up good and proper. Ideally he re-signs one of Giroux/Carter here prior to the season so that we at least know what is going on cap wise (preferably Giroux since he isn't arbitration eligible).
Haha, good phrase.

Also, it's mind-bottling.

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Old
07-20-2010, 11:58 AM
  #90
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You make valid points, but Richards, Carter, Giroux, vanRiemsdyk, Carle, Coburn, and Meszaros are now all a year older as well.

If you think Richards, Carter, and Hartnell won't have better offensive showings in 2010-11, you're out of your mind.

The wildcards are Giroux, Zherdev, and Leino. Will they make up for the loss of Gagne?
JVR will breakout this season. I gained alot of faith in him when he came out of prospects came last season and did anything and everything it took to make the roster, when everyone was pretty much putting in past him. I think he will do the work he needs to get bigger, stronger and be ready to play an 82 game season this year.

25+ goals and about 60-70 points.

remember this post.

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07-20-2010, 12:01 PM
  #91
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mind bottling
haha

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07-20-2010, 12:13 PM
  #92
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JVR will breakout this season. I gained alot of faith in him when he came out of prospects came last season and did anything and everything it took to make the roster, when everyone was pretty much putting in past him. I think he will do the work he needs to get bigger, stronger and be ready to play an 82 game season this year.

25+ goals and about 60-70 points.

remember this post.
So basically you expect JVR to be more productive than any of our players were this year.

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07-20-2010, 12:51 PM
  #93
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...you realize we ADDED salary for future seasons (when Giroux or JVR or Carter may be lost), right? Gagne was our cap relief contract to re-sign Giroux and JVR... he's gone now, and we have Walker, Meszaros, Shelley, and Leighton on our books going into that offseason.

Gagne was gone after next year unless he took a major pay cut, which is fine... but not like this, and not while making your situation next summer worse.
Yeah. Just from Meszaros and Walker combined, that's like 500k more then Gagne made. That's without even throwing Shelley or Leighton into the mix.

I'm seriously sick of these Homer apologists though. There's literally no legitimate defense to this off-season.

All he had to do was make three or four easy moves and re-sign a couple of RFAs. That's it. It was an easy, simple off-season. Then he ****ed it up in so many ways.

-He added salary for the next three years. A lot of it. Enough that it will make re-signing guys like Giroux and Carter extremely difficult without moving players around.

-We lost our best winger for nothing...and replaced his lineup spot with Zherdev. Try to process that for a second.

-We still have no actual starter.

-We have eight NHL d-men. Eight. Please try to tell me how that makes any sense whatsoever.

-I wouldn't be surprised if we have the most expensive third pairing in the league.

-We lost our only second rounder in a crappy trade...again.

Seriously, this is such a crappy off-season.

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07-20-2010, 12:55 PM
  #94
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So basically you expect JVR to be more productive than any of our players were this year.
That's extremely doubtful. He is still buried with respect to PP time. He'll be lucky to hit 50pts.

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07-20-2010, 12:56 PM
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I'm seriously sick of these Homer apologists though. There's literally no legitimate defense to this off-season.
.
B-b-b-b-but we went to the Cup finals last year!
that should count for something!
I cant wait for the season to start!
Holmgren knows what hes doing!


for 50 vcash guess who im mocking

speaking of defenseman, we have five defenseman who make more then our goaltenders. combined.
I mean, how can anyone justify that. that is beyond ****ing stupid.

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07-20-2010, 12:59 PM
  #96
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mind bottling
haha
Yeah, mind-bottling. You know, when things are so crazy it gets your thoughts all trapped, like in a bottle?

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07-20-2010, 01:05 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
B-b-b-b-but we went to the Cup finals last year!
that should count for something!
I cant wait for the season to start!
Holmgren knows what hes doing!


for 50 vcash guess who im mocking

speaking of defenseman, we have five defenseman who make more then our goaltenders. combined.
I mean, how can anyone justify that. that is beyond ****ing stupid.
Defense wins championships! Think about it. Literally.

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07-20-2010, 01:13 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
B-b-b-b-but we went to the Cup finals last year!
that should count for something!
I cant wait for the season to start!
Holmgren knows what hes doing!


for 50 vcash guess who im mocking

speaking of defenseman, we have five defenseman who make more then our goaltenders. combined.
I mean, how can anyone justify that. that is beyond ****ing stupid.
lol. I didn't even realize that Matt Walker makes more then our starter. That's hilarious. Talk about cheaping out on goaltending.

In the context of serious discussion, we were lucky to get to the SCF last year. I know people don't want to hear that or believe that, but we were. We avoided any offensive power-house until the SCF (where we got kind of destroyed) and what allowed us to escape the 0-3 situation in Boston alive was luck with injuries.

Not to mention that we were probably the only team in the league who had each of our goalies handle half of the playoffs for us.

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07-20-2010, 01:18 PM
  #99
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Defense wins championships! Think about it. Literally.
whats he gonna do with Bartulis? cant send him to the AHL. he will have to clear waivers.
People will say Bartulis sucks, which i dont buy at all. He is still young and developing. Something this organization has no patience for under Holmgren.

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07-20-2010, 01:29 PM
  #100
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whats he gonna do with Bartulis? cant send him to the AHL. he will have to clear waivers.
People will say Bartulis sucks, which i dont buy at all. He is still young and developing. Something this organization has no patience for under Holmgren.
Who the F knows at this point. I'm pretty pissed about the Bartulis situation... I think he can develop into a solid bottom pairing guy at the very least, but you need to let him play to have that happen.

I don't understand why we've over committed so much on D in the summer... as opposed to staying flexible going into the season and allowing for a trade to solidify the D during the year.

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