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#7 Montreal Canadiens prospects

View Poll Results: who's #7?
Cedrick Desjardins, G 3 1.49%
Joonas Nattinen, C 1 0.50%
Ben Maxwell, C 14 6.93%
Yannick Weber, D 50 24.75%
Gabriel Dumont, C 0 0%
Aaron Palushaj, RW 6 2.97%
Andreas Engqvist, C 1 0.50%
Ryan White, C 10 4.95%
Mathieu Carle, D 5 2.48%
Maxim Trunev, RW 1 0.50%
Alexander Avtsin, RW 93 46.04%
David Desharnais, C 12 5.94%
Steve Quailer, RW 0 0%
Mac Bennett, D 3 1.49%
Brock Trotter, C 3 1.49%
Voters: 202. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-20-2010, 12:51 AM
  #26
InglewoodJack
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Weber's more of a sure thing to me.
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07-20-2010, 12:56 AM
  #27
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I voted Avtsin based on the hype, never saw him play, so my vote has basically no value lol, could have been Weber too.. Im pretty high on Bennett, I hope he cracks the the 10..

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Old
07-20-2010, 08:05 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expos4ever View Post
a no-brainer:

Weber: a 2-way defenseman who has established himself as an all-star caliber pro in North America...

over

Avtsin: a big forward with a scoring touch, but many unknowns having never played in N.A. hockey, and only putting numbers up in Russian junior leagues.
Do the same excercise with Weber vs Tinordi/Leblanc/Kristo, and it's about the same. Weber excelled at a higher level, but since he didn't pull a Subban when he had a few games in the NHL, his potential has become shot. His play against Boston, on a team that couldn't score, yet he had 2 points in 3 playoff games in the NHL, well, it's ALL forgotten. As if a young players are never jittery. In fact, I'm pretty sure the expression "being green" has nothing to do with how young people react to intense situations they've never lived before. The speed of AHL hockey takes some time to adapt to, and for the NHL, it takes even more time. Maxwell should also be included here. Same case as Weber, although I've always considered Weber to have better upside, although Maxwell could easily prove that wrong too.

On the other hand you have Kristo, Leblanc, Tinordi and Avtsin who've never played in a North American Pro game. But yeah, they look all sexy because they haven't dissapointed yet. These are the players with undeveloped skills and room to grow, with no professional play and recognition in their careers yet, making most of their reputation against Kids and young men. But hey, they can still pull a Subban, so yeah.

I'm pretty sure Weber will do better than at least 2 of those 4 in their professional careers (Kristo, Leblanc, Tinordi and Avtsin).

The thing that is the most funny is how much wishful thinking is put into this pool. Pac is in the EXACT same situation than Weber and Maxwell, and even worst, his passage in the AHL has been of a lesser impact than Maxwell and Weber, and he too couldn't cut it in his first dip into the big pound. YET, here we are with Pac ahead of Kristo, Leblanc, Tinordi and Avtsin, while also being ahead of Maxwell and Weber. The wishful thinking here is for size. Since he's the only proven AHLer with talent and size, wishful thinking kicks in, and it rather becomes a poll that asks "which player would you rather have reach the highest potential (outside of the top 2 we have)?

Since Pac is the only one with AHL experience (proof of higher level of play), size and potential, he goes first. The flock of non-AHLers come next, as they still all have a chance of pulling a Subban, and then, the Russian enigma, WOH! SIZZZE!! We need size, and he can still pull a Subban, although he is less known and has less of hype than the other ones who can still pull a Subban, so hey, he's gotta go before the only two guys who have potential and have proven it at a higher level than all these other players, but haven't pulled a Subban at the age of 20-21 years old.

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Old
07-20-2010, 09:37 AM
  #29
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Why can't I vote ?

Vote : Avtstin.



Weber has much more potential than maxwell to make the NHL. And still there, Weber plays in his own zone is so much terrible that i think he will become an AHLER. I was the same saying that D'agostini sucked so hard. And now see where he is burried. Weber, IMO it'll be the same thing.

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07-20-2010, 11:06 AM
  #30
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I think Weber/Maxwell/Avtsin is the next group. I voted Weber.

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07-20-2010, 11:53 AM
  #31
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07-20-2010, 12:27 PM
  #32
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07-20-2010, 12:31 PM
  #33
ClasslessGuy
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I like Avtsin, but i don't understand why Weber isn't out there yet... He will be the first defenseman call back from Hamilton

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07-20-2010, 12:52 PM
  #34
Chris Cutter
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Ben Maxwell, again.

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Old
07-20-2010, 01:09 PM
  #35
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp10 View Post
I like Avtsin, but i don't understand why Weber isn't out there yet... He will be the first defenseman call back from Hamilton
Not sure about that, last year he was the first call up but he stunk and was never re-called again. Subban and Carle both outplayed in Hamilton, and both looked good in their call ups. Carle's injury leaves questions going forward, but if Weber doesn't return to form, or if Carle has a strong camp he could be the first to be re-called.

I loved what I saw from Weber in his first season but he really struggled this past season so there's no way I'd have him in my top 10 until he shows he can bounce back. I did like that he improved his physical game last year, and I fully expect him to rebound but until he does I'm going to have him lower.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I love how people ride the avtsin train. I'd argue that Ben Maxwell as a legit two-way #2 center with size, speed and smarts as potential is more complete than a top 6 forward in avtsin. Not to mention, weber should be ahead of both very easily. I hope I'm wrong and Avtsin is the next big thing or something, but we'll see how he does in NA then I'll rethink my position. I'm one of the few who would believe in maxwell before avtsin I think.
Well there's a lot of unknown in regards to Avtsin but he does have a lot of interesting qualities for sure, since he's got the frame, speed, skating, will take the body, hands, so there's a lot to like although always a big question mark as to how guys will translate to the smaller ice.

Maxwell though, I don't see how anyone could consider him one of our top prospects, he not only has done nothing in the NHL, he's look totally useless. Granted he's been good for the Dogs, especially his first year, but he plays scared and that's got to concern people, cause if he doesn't get his nose dirty I don't think he will be a very effective player, and it's too bad cause he does have the skills and smarts.

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07-20-2010, 01:32 PM
  #36
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Well there's a lot of unknown in regards to Avtsin but he does have a lot of interesting qualities for sure, since he's got the frame, speed, skating, will take the body, hands, so there's a lot to like although always a big question mark as to how guys will translate to the smaller ice.

Maxwell though, I don't see how anyone could consider him one of our top prospects, he not only has done nothing in the NHL, he's look totally useless. Granted he's been good for the Dogs, especially his first year, but he plays scared and that's got to concern people, cause if he doesn't get his nose dirty I don't think he will be a very effective player, and it's too bad cause he does have the skills and smarts.
I agree, he does play a little passive and scared but if we're talking potential, maxwell, if he grows some balls, would be a 2nd line center. That's higher rated in my books than a potential top 6 forward. While you can argue he's not good enough to beat out Avtsin, I think he's good enough to be top 10, that's just my take though.

IMO, Avtsin is the flavour of the week. If he becomes as good as AK people will cheer(for the first 2 years I guess) when in reality, they(not everybody but a lot of people) call AK garbage now. He obviously has the talent but people assume he's going to be some great player, this hype is ridiculous. I haven't watched him play, but everyone's going for him, thinking we'll have mini-ovechkin on our hands. I really hope we do, but as I said, until he plays a season in NA i'll reserve judgement.

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Old
07-20-2010, 01:38 PM
  #37
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I agree, he does play a little passive and scared but if we're talking potential, maxwell, if he grows some balls, would be a 2nd line center. That's higher rated in my books than a potential top 6 forward. While you can argue he's not good enough to beat out Avtsin, I think he's good enough to be top 10, that's just my take though.

IMO, Avtsin is the flavour of the week. If he becomes as good as AK people will cheer(for the first 2 years I guess) when in reality, they(not everybody but a lot of people) call AK garbage now. He obviously has the talent but people assume he's going to be some great player, this hype is ridiculous. I haven't watched him play, but everyone's going for him, thinking we'll have mini-ovechkin on our hands. I really hope we do, but as I said, until he plays a season in NA i'll reserve judgement.
Nothing I've seen from Maxwell suggests he will find that aggressive part to his game that is lacking. I've been watching him since he was 16 and he seems to be the same. I don't see him having top 6 potential personally.

The difference is that when you see Avtsin, Leblanc, Kristo, these guys want the puck and they go to the heavy traffic areas with the puck at high speed, something I think you can't teach, either you do it or you don't. If you don't, I think it's going to be a huge problem for a prospect at the NHL level.

As for Avtsin, if anyone thinks we have a mini AO on our hands, then they are just buying the hype. I think he could be a guy that becomes what we hoped A.Kostitsyn would be, a skilled goal scorer that can use his frame to create some space and put some pucks in the net conssistently.

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07-20-2010, 01:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Nothing I've seen from Maxwell suggests he will find that aggressive part to his game that is lacking. I've been watching him since he was 16 and he seems to be the same. I don't see him having top 6 potential personally.

The difference is that when you see Avtsin, Leblanc, Kristo, these guys want the puck and they go to the heavy traffic areas with the puck at high speed, something I think you can't teach, either you do it or you don't. If you don't, I think it's going to be a huge problem for a prospect at the NHL level.

As for Avtsin, if anyone thinks we have a mini AO on our hands, then they are just buying the hype. I think he could be a guy that becomes what we hoped A.Kostitsyn would be, a skilled goal scorer that can use his frame to create some space and put some pucks in the net conssistently.
I can understand your POV but yes, most people don't change. The way you saw maxwell at 16 may be the way we see him at 25. Reality is, there's a lot more passive players in the NHL than maxwell who are successful. I'm hoping that he gets a little bit of a fire via confidence. I think his two-way ability, skills, fair size and skating ability will enable him to make the NHL despite his lack of aggression. Maybe it won't be as a 2nd line center though, I can live with that.

Unfortunately, that's the problem, people do think that, while few will admit it. I want to see him in NA before I say much else about him. I don't want to be a downer and say he doesn't have potential, he does, I just don't know how high it is till I see him. Obviously, when he plays in the AHL and gets more than a few games under his belt, you're the first guy I'm going to ask about how he looks. If he is 1/2 as good as the hype, we have a steal.

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Old
07-20-2010, 02:14 PM
  #39
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I can understand your POV but yes, most people don't change. The way you saw maxwell at 16 may be the way we see him at 25. Reality is, there's a lot more passive players in the NHL than maxwell who are successful. I'm hoping that he gets a little bit of a fire via confidence. I think his two-way ability, skills, fair size and skating ability will enable him to make the NHL despite his lack of aggression. Maybe it won't be as a 2nd line center though, I can live with that.

Unfortunately, that's the problem, people do think that, while few will admit it. I want to see him in NA before I say much else about him. I don't want to be a downer and say he doesn't have potential, he does, I just don't know how high it is till I see him. Obviously, when he plays in the AHL and gets more than a few games under his belt, you're the first guy I'm going to ask about how he looks. If he is 1/2 as good as the hype, we have a steal.
I'm not sure there are a lot more passive players in the NHL then Maxwell, you don't get much more passive then him from what I've seen. I agree his two way play, skills, speed etc... could enable him tomake the NHL despite his lack of aggression but it's hard to be confident in that at this stage, since he's look so poorly at NHL level. I hope he can put it all together and overcome his lack of physical play, although not sure he can do this with the Habs, we can't get any softer as it is.

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