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Old
07-20-2010, 12:58 PM
  #526
Herby
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Jagr, Sakic, Sundin, Selanne, Yzerman, Robitaille, Modano were all productive to their mid 30's years. I do agree that for a couple of years he may eat up more than his cap value dictates, but that is no different than what we have for three years with Smyth, with once again the difference being the Devils have the second best goal-scorer of the post-lockout era for a good chunk of his prime years for a bargain cap hit.

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07-20-2010, 01:00 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by yankeeking View Post
AEG was willing to spend 254 FREAKING MILLION for a guy near the end of his career for a team that at max plays in front of 10000 at home depot center,why because the owner likes soccer but doesn't have the same passion for hockey-at least not Kings hockey
First of all, AEG isn't going to pay Beckham 250 million dollars. As I understand it, it is a incenitive based contract. Yet Beckham is still getting paid 10 million per year.


I do however question AEG's desire to win. It's always going to be business first for them, winning second.

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07-20-2010, 01:00 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
But the cap space hit was perfect . . . .

Guess the market didnt force him to accept less. But DL just "couldn't imagine" even being in the same market place. Its a damning self indictment of just how clueless he was about the whole thing.
You can spin it any way you want I suppose. I don't think AEG was going to belly up to the bar with $95M over the first 10 years. So, in the end it wasn't about JUST the cap hit. Leiweke speak with forked tongue.

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07-20-2010, 01:07 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
You can spin it any way you want I suppose. I don't think AEG was going to belly up to the bar with $95M over the first 10 years. So, in the end it wasn't about JUST the cap hit. Leiweke speak with forked tongue.
Sums it up. Lieweekly speak and lying to the fans again.


Can't wait for the next Lieweekly interview with Hammond, where he will tell everyone he is passionate about hockey and how he wants to win. Then go on to say Kings have some great fans, and that they should be treated as such. As a result he will tell Hammond to round up a group of fans and have them critique the food and experience at Staples.

Everyone can read that interview again here...

http://www.lakingsnetwork.com/hammon...eke-interview/

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07-20-2010, 01:16 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Sums it up. Lieweekly speak and lying to the fans again.


Can't wait for the next Lieweekly interview with Hammond, where he will tell everyone he is passionate about hockey and how he wants to win. Then go on to say Kings have some great fans, and that they should be treated as such. As a result he will tell Hammond to round up a group of fans and have them critique the food and experience at Staples.

Everyone can read that interview again here...

http://www.lakingsnetwork.com/hammon...eke-interview/
The frustrating part of that interview is Leiweke is not the owner of the Kings. He is only the mouthpiece. He said in the interview that Uncle Phil has never said "No". I'm thinking that's now changed, if it was true before.

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07-20-2010, 01:18 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Must be nice to have an ownership that gives a **** about winning.
I really hope you read piston's response on the last page.

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...I don't believe that the Union is going to accept a lowering of the salary cap. But, the Devils do not generate enough in revenues to pay Kovie. In addition, the owner has to service the debt from building the new arena. Something will have to give. Bankruptcy could be a real possibility here. Contracts could be voided by bankruptcy court. I am going to go on record and say the Kovalchuk will never collect some of the money he thinks he has coming to him.

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07-20-2010, 01:20 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by yankeeking View Post
1) AEG was willing to spend 254 FREAKING MILLION for a guy near the end of his career for a team that at max plays in front of 10000 at home depot center,why because the owner likes soccer but doesn't have the same passion for hockey-at least not Kings hockey and 22 million would break a deal like this seem short sighted
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
First of all, AEG isn't going to pay Beckham 250 million dollars. As I understand it, it is a incenitive based contract. Yet Beckham is still getting paid 10 million per year.


I do however question AEG's desire to win. It's always going to be business first for them, winning second.
AEG didnt pay Beckham 250M dollars. AEG paid him 6.5M a season to play soccer. The 250M number came about when adding in all his endorsements.

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07-20-2010, 01:20 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Yep, not sure I get the whole "good luck with that defense, Lou" idea when Kovy's contract is a smaller cap hit than Kopitar's.

As long as the Devils aren't driven to insolvency during Kovy's $11.5M years, they're all good.
Lou's problem isn't the Kovalchuk cap hit as much as it is the Rolston cap hit, the Volchenkov cap hit, etc. That team is in serious need of a puck moving defenseman and they are over the cap. Lou would probably love to move Rolston, but who wants him with that cap hit? Lou will have to add something really sweet to make that happen. His next problem is that he traded most of his "sweetener" to Atlanta in the first Kovalchuk deal. He may have trouble finding a trading partner this time.

But there is the NHL office factor of stupidity that seems to let Lou make up the rules as he goes along when in comes to things like using the LTIR, etc.

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07-20-2010, 01:24 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
#1 Denial
  • Come on, that can't be true.. I refuse to believe until Matthew Barry confirms it.
  • The league won't approve of a deal that long, no way.
#2 Anger
  • Lombardi you incompetent idiot!
  • Kovalchuk only cared about the money!
  • I hope the Devils choke on that contract, their team is old and will never win anything again!
  • Tim Leiweke is a lying cheapskate!
#3 Bargaining
  • Maybe we can trade for Parise now?
  • I see Joe Thornton is a free agent next year..
  • Would Frolov accept a short-term deal?
  • Fine, let's just go get Gagne. Wait what?! (go back to #1)
#4 Depression
  • This was our ticket out of mediocrity and we blew it.
  • No high profile free agent will ever sign with the Kings...
  • We're not gonna make the playoffs and even if we do we have no chance of going passed the first round.
  • Kopitar or Doughty will get injured somehow and we'll go back to being a lottery team.
#5 Acceptance
  • We are still just as good as the team that made 101 points last season.
  • We have the youngest core in the league and our core will continue to improve.
  • Some of the best prospects in the league are in our system.
  • Cap space is still abundant, location is desirable and there is plenty of time before the season starts to make some changes by trade.

What stage are you in? I'm still in #4 I think...
Not to nit-pick, but everything in #3 is actually #5. True bargaining would have been "maybe we can offer a bigger contract and Kovalchuk will renege on the contract he signed with the Devils," or "if the league vetoes the deal somehow then I'll never insult Bettman again!"

So you guys already thinking about other options, good for you. You're already past acceptance and have experienced deep personal growth from this ordeal.

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07-20-2010, 01:27 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by SLang View Post
The frustrating part of that interview is Leiweke is not the owner of the Kings. He is only the mouthpiece. He said in the interview that Uncle Phil has never said "No". I'm thinking that's now changed, if it was true before.
I doubt it was true before.

Either way, it's yet another lie we can add to the long list of lies from Lieweekly.

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07-20-2010, 01:27 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Now onto Kovalchuk. If the guy was all about winning $80M over 12 years, with probably $50M in the first five should have been enough to get it done. He can blather on about the Devils' cups and tradition, but that team doesn't have much on defense and Brodeur will be done someday. He isn't going to win a cup in NJ, and that isn't a very bold prediction on my part. He had a much better shot in LA, but instead took the $95M over 10 years. Done and done.
I come in peace from the NJ boards lol. While I agree that the scripted traditions and unfinished business statements were pure PR bs, the rest of your statement is a bit of sour grapes.

On one hand people keep saying marty is the only person that keeps the devils from being bottom feeders, and then in the next breath they claim he is washed up and overrated. The two contradict one another. Marty is about 85% the goalie he was in his prime which is still good enough for top 10 in the NHL. With that said yes he will retire someday but goalies are getting better and better and there are a bunch of promising guys in the farm. But NJ can win without marty, look at 08/09 when he was out most of the season. Scott Clemmenson wasn't oustanding but good enough for us to win the division.

So saying NJ can't win a title now or after he retires is absurd. The D is better then last year with A Train and Tallinder and I am sure we are in somehow the running for Kaberle too. The offense is now stacked to be two of the best lines in the NHL, they just need time to put it together.

I feel lucky to be on the side that won this 18 day disgrace but NJ is easily a contender this year as they are every year, they just need to step up in round 1.

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07-20-2010, 01:33 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Richer 44 View Post
So saying NJ can't win a title now or after he retires is absurd. The D is better then last year with A Train and Tallinder and I am sure we are in somehow the running for Kaberle too. The offense is now stacked to be two of the best lines in the NHL, they just need time to put it together.
.
You make a ton of sense, but unfortunately for some it will go in one ear out the other, they will trash your team with your amazing offensive firepower and Top 5 alltime goalie and your GM who has won 3 Stanley Cups meanwhile our team is five years into a five year plan and we still have no 2nd line center, no first line wingers and huge holes on defense.

Goodluck this season. You have a very likeable team with guys like Parise, Marty and Zajac.

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07-20-2010, 01:35 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Hhahaahahahahahahaha. Drewiske and Harrold bottom pairing? Is that a joke?

We don't have a top 4. We have Doughty, Johnson and Scuderi. Matt Greene is a #5 guy. If Kings want to go past the 1st round, they need at least more legit NHL D man.
I agree 100% Johnny...but this team has so many holes to fill right now we have to wonder where adding that quality d-man falls into those plans, as of now we don't have enough offense to win and our defense looks very shaky also.

How did we get in this mess, its unbelievable.

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Originally Posted by Beauty, eh? View Post
I love Gaborik, but he's still a risky signing....
Wouldn't you rather take a risk and end up with a 45-50 goal superstar or be stuck with where we are now, looking for scraps like Afinogenov and Stempniak.

Gaborik could score 45-50 and we would be contenders or he could injure his groin or hip and the Kings are not going to be contenders or we could sign Stempniak or Afinogenov and we're still not going to be contenders even if they play 82 games.

Sometimes you need to roll the dice to win big. Bringing in leftovers or other teams salary dumps like Smyth and Gagne is not a way to win a Stanley Cup.

We need an elite winger, and have for a couple of years now, and he simply hasn't been able to get it done.

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07-20-2010, 01:35 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
And the 50% rule is precisely the reason for this structure. No further guessing is necessary.
The 50% Rule says a club can't reduce salary from year to year by more than 50% of the lower of the first two years' salary. In this case that's $3M as Kovalchuk gets $6M in each of his first two years. Had he been paid $11.5M in each of the first two years, the year to year salary reduction could have been as high as $5.75M.

The 50% Rule does not explain the peculiar structure.

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07-20-2010, 01:35 PM
  #540
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I think these 2 points show that the Kings probably never had a real chance. The Devils' owners were prepared to spend whatever it took to get him resigned.

I think its pretty clear he never would have been a King, we all know Lombardi would not get into a bidding war, but lets say he had. Each time he would have made him a better offer the Devils just would have raised theirs.
I disagree. Lombardi even said as much that that 100M number was an understood watermark. The Devils said yes, the Kings said no. He ended up getting essentially 98.5M for 11 years, which was not far off of his original demands. I really don't think cap space was an issue, because, well, the Devils made it work for a cap hit that we could have stomached. I have to think that if the Kings offered a similar contract, or one that was even close, Kovalchuk would be a King today.

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07-20-2010, 01:40 PM
  #541
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The Kings should have signed Marian Gaborik last summer, how can you say otherwise. Here we are a year later and still no first line winger. No closer to a Stanley Cup.
They tried. Gaborik chose to play somewhere else.

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Its very rare that superstar wingers are available for only cash, two straight summers we were in negotiations with them and missed out, one time because of cash and the other time because DL wouldn't do five years.
Yeah, life ain't fair I guess.

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All I know is if DL signed Gaborik and didn't trade for Smyth we would have two of our major holes filled, elite sniper on the wing and 2nd pairing mobile d-man...how exactly is this making no sense?
Because it hasn't set the Kings back. There is no evidence of that. The Kings improved last season without Gaborik or Quincey. Will it set them back? Maybe. Has it set them back? Not yet.

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If you could go back in time you wouldn't change things?
Really not a question for a fan. You'd have to ask Lombardi or Gaborik.

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07-20-2010, 01:42 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Richer 44 View Post
I come in peace from the NJ boards lol. While I agree that the scripted traditions and unfinished business statements were pure PR bs, the rest of your statement is a bit of sour grapes.

On one hand people keep saying marty is the only person that keeps the devils from being bottom feeders, and then in the next breath they claim he is washed up and overrated. The two contradict one another. Marty is about 85% the goalie he was in his prime which is still good enough for top 10 in the NHL. With that said yes he will retire someday but goalies are getting better and better and there are a bunch of promising guys in the farm. But NJ can win without marty, look at 08/09 when he was out most of the season. Scott Clemmenson wasn't oustanding but good enough for us to win the division.

So saying NJ can't win a title now or after he retires is absurd. The D is better then last year with A Train and Tallinder and I am sure we are in somehow the running for Kaberle too. The offense is now stacked to be two of the best lines in the NHL, they just need time to put it together.

I feel lucky to be on the side that won this 18 day disgrace but NJ is easily a contender this year as they are every year, they just need to step up in round 1.
I will admit not knowing a ton about the NJ pipeline and I don't think Brodeur is washed up by any means. If Lou can pull off getting Kaberle somehow, then I think you have a lot of pieces required for a run this season. It isn't sour grapes, just an observation from lurking in the Devil boards and reading what the most knowledgable fans there seem to think the need is on defense.

Lou has some more moves to make and you guys do play in the Eastern Conference so a trip to the Finals is never out of the question. Hell Montreal went deep last season.

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07-20-2010, 01:43 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
You make a ton of sense, but unfortunately for some it will go in one ear out the other, they will trash your team with your amazing offensive firepower and Top 5 alltime goalie and your GM who has won 3 Stanley Cups meanwhile our team is five years into a five year plan and we still have no 2nd line center, no first line wingers and huge holes on defense.

Goodluck this season. You have a very likeable team with guys like Parise, Marty and Zajac.
Well that will always be the case and you have to understand that when you have passion in a sport and a particular team. Any other team is the enemy and some WAY WORSE then others. For me #1 Rangers #2 Flyers and then a more distant #3 Pitt. Can't stand them and those fans will always try to poke holes in NJ even through they are a much more successful organization in the past 20 years+.

I have been around for a long time with my Devils. I think around 87/88 as I was only 5 when the team moved here in 82. I have seen a lot of players come and go and NJ has always done really well with very little all-star talent. Many of our home brew players eventually left to have amazing careers, Shannahan, Rifalski to name a few. But my point is this might be the first time since 1988 that I can honestly say we are a SERIOUS scoring threat. And if D is a little weaker then we would like its ok, as long as you can net 3-5 a game. Look at washington. D is terrible but as long as they net more with their firepower you win tons of games.

LA has been in the loop of rebuild for years, they are showing some great sings of hope Kovy would have worked well but don't give up I am sure you will do well again this year. I personally really like Quick, he will be a fine goalie as he ages and have said to some other NJ fans that I would love to snag him to replace Marty but that won't happen.

You can have Rolston, you won't get Arnott he was brough back for a purpose, to center Kovy and Elias. I really thought LA had Kovy but the only glimmer I had was that Grossman is the agent for Volchenkov and Hedburg and NJ picked both up before Kovy. Hedburg was a close friend of Kovy in ATL and A Train is a fellow russian that openly stated he would be stoked to play with Kovy. So I think those few things along with the $ also tipped the scales

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07-20-2010, 01:43 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
I just finished watching the Kovalchuk press conference. Four things ran clear:

(1) Ilya stated he made his decision on the 17th. The Devils stated they were informed of Ilya's decision to ACCEPT the offer on the 17th, that evening. Thus, if you believe that, the offer had already been out there to Ilya. For how long? That wasn't asked. However, this wasn't some blind side last minute offer by NJ because, remember, Dean made their final and best on Friday and then Ilya had the weekend to think it over according to Dean and company.

(2) Lou said the decision to do this came from the top. The ownership wants to win, they just built up the facility (I guess the Devils have spent money on their infrastructure) and Ilya was the right fit to win. It is all about success and winning.

(3) Lou said that the contract is irrelevant at this point. They did what they had to in order to get him and now you do what you have to in order to be successful. He doesn't bemoan whether the contract was against fiscal responsibility. He doesn't make those decisions, ownership does. I thought this part was very interesting. You are essentially dealing with a hands on ownership that points to winning as priority number 1.

(4) Kovalchuk never actually said why he signed with NJ. He commended the team, its unity, commitment, etc. but he never actually said what the main reason was. It's ok though. We know what it was and it wasn't "New Jersey's schools."
Must be nice.

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07-20-2010, 01:44 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Richer 44 View Post
I come in peace from the NJ boards lol. While I agree that the scripted traditions and unfinished business statements were pure PR bs, the rest of your statement is a bit of sour grapes.

On one hand people keep saying marty is the only person that keeps the devils from being bottom feeders, and then in the next breath they claim he is washed up and overrated. The two contradict one another. Marty is about 85% the goalie he was in his prime which is still good enough for top 10 in the NHL. With that said yes he will retire someday but goalies are getting better and better and there are a bunch of promising guys in the farm. But NJ can win without marty, look at 08/09 when he was out most of the season. Scott Clemmenson wasn't oustanding but good enough for us to win the division.

So saying NJ can't win a title now or after he retires is absurd. The D is better then last year with A Train and Tallinder and I am sure we are in somehow the running for Kaberle too. The offense is now stacked to be two of the best lines in the NHL, they just need time to put it together.

I feel lucky to be on the side that won this 18 day disgrace but NJ is easily a contender this year as they are every year, they just need to step up in round 1.
Your very brave coming to this board right now

Anyways I agree with most of your points, but I thing Jerseys championship window is pretty small (2 MAYBE 3 years). I REALLY don't think very highly of their D, but you have some great lines up front. Good luck next year

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07-20-2010, 01:47 PM
  #546
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NJ has zero center depth and a blueline who couldn't play a quick transition game if their lives depended on it. Two 40-50 goal LWs do not = high powered offense.

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07-20-2010, 01:51 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Then why in earlier posts were you saying how bad their defense was, how big an idiot Lou was for this contract and how Kovalchuk will never win a cup there?
Because I can see what is lacking on the NHL backline as it stands today and since rookies don't generally show up and become world beaters I don't see it improving a lot. Add to that Brodeur's age and it isn't that hard to figure out.

Kovalchuk took the money. IMO his best chance for long-term success with a team was with the Kings. I doubt NJ is a threat to win a cup for a while after Brodeur retires. Is that really hard for you to understand?

Read this too Herby:

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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
NJ has zero center depth and a blueline who couldn't play a quick transition game if their lives depended on it. Two 40-50 goal LWs do not = high powered offense.

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07-20-2010, 01:52 PM
  #548
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Lombardi on Fan 950

Guess he's probably talked about the same stuff on LA radio, but if anyone is interested.

http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?cont...20_141320_9540

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07-20-2010, 01:53 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
NJ has zero center depth and a blueline who couldn't play a quick transition game if their lives depended on it. Two 40-50 goal LWs do not = high powered offense.
Not sure what you are referring to

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner/Zubrus
Kovy - Arnott - Elias

Two first line centers right there. Elias can net 25-30 easy now 50+ from both wingers. Zajac will net 20-25 as will lang

The third line center will probably be a stud in the system who looks real good. So we are fine at center.

The blue line could use a few better skaters but Andy Green is pretty damn good at that and Tallinder isn't as bad as people think. They will make due.

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07-20-2010, 01:54 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Of course it came down to cash. This deal and why the Kings didn't get him had ZERO to do with the cap and I am ok with that, when that was the reason. I get it. This is a business first. But then, if that is the case, Leiweke needs to shut the hell up and not lie and/or mislead the fan base with that inane comment like it's about the cap, not the cash.
This is exactly what I told my fiance last night mid-rant. If we don't have the money to sign these guys, then fine. There are lots of teams who aren't priveleged, who don't have a ton of money, and do just fine. But stop bull****ing the fans and doing the same monkey dance you've been doing for ten years.

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