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Rangers trade Zaborsky to Ducks for Matt McCue

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Old
07-20-2010, 12:48 PM
  #76
dtrap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
IIRC, there was a poll at the time - I know that I voted "good signings, but we paid too much" or something along those lines. I think that was the winning selection. So, there is some logic to what you write.

Having said that, we knew we were overpaying for them and when their production failed to meet their contracts, it made the Redden signing that much worse in context. It also made the Rozsival signing, which IMO was fair market value, bad in context, because we couldn't afford another contract of that magnitude with Hank, Gomez, Redden and Drury already on the books.

Boogaard is another one, however, that should have never happened. (Granted, on a different scale.)
I agree...I'm just part of that very small group that can't fault Sather at all for Gomez and Drury. We were coming off a fantastic 06-07 season in which we should have gone deeper in the playoffs, and he got exactly what the team needed. It just didn't work...I wish more people would realize that...

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07-20-2010, 12:51 PM
  #77
Orr Nightmare
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I love these moves...we are dumping guys who would never play for us and getting a guy, who if he doesn't work out still provides a service and that is to protect our youth in the minor leagues and if he does work out then u have another rugged guy on your team.

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07-20-2010, 01:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
At the same time the Redden signing is the only truly BAD signing he has made. Coming out of 06-07 we needed two centers. He went and got two centers. A playmaker to play with Jagr (Gomez) and a guts/clutch/leader guy to play on the second line (Drury).

They got paid what the market deemed appropriate. I can't stand the people that sit here and act like Sather overpaid them by 2 million each on purpose. At the time they were great signings and every "expert" who now bashes us has us as one of the top-5 teams in the league. The signings made sense. They just didn't work out.

Redden is the one that should have never happened...
Gotta disagree. Even at the time there was a lot of concerns about the types of salaries they were and the no-trade clause in Drury's contract.

The problem with a lot of Sather's moves isn't the players, as much as it compounding the player with the contract.

I'll also disagree that they paid what the market deemed approriate. Too often, Sather seems to be bidding against himself when it comes to guys he falls in love with.

Bottom line is simple, good teams get the right players at the right price. We have no constructed a good team.

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07-20-2010, 01:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
It just didn't work...I wish more people would realize that...
I don't think there's anyone who struggles to comprehend that it didn't work.

That's been pretty obvious for a while now.

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07-20-2010, 01:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Gotta disagree. Even at the time there was a lot of concerns about the types of salaries they were and the no-trade clause in Drury's contract.

The problem with a lot of Sather's moves isn't the players, as much as it compounding the player with the contract.

I'll also disagree that they paid what the market deemed approriate. Too often, Sather seems to be bidding against himself when it comes to guys he falls in love with.

Bottom line is simple, good teams get the right players at the right price. We have no constructed a good team.
Take a look at what Danny Briere got from the Flyers in the same offseason and tell me that Drury and Gomez didn't get what the market deemed appropriate. So you can disagree all you want, but respectfully I have to say I think you have blinders on in your distain for Sather, just like a lot of other people here.

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07-20-2010, 01:55 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I don't think there's anyone who struggles to comprehend that it didn't work.

That's been pretty obvious for a while now.
You chopped off the first half of my statement.

I said that Sather got exactly what the team needed and that it didn't work. I'm not saying that no one understands it didn't work, it clearly didn't. I was stating that I wish more people could understand that in signing Gomez and Drury, Sather got the team exactly what it needed at that time and it just didn't work.

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07-20-2010, 02:27 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Gotta disagree. Even at the time there was a lot of concerns about the types of salaries they were and the no-trade clause in Drury's contract.

The problem with a lot of Sather's moves isn't the players, as much as it compounding the player with the contract.

I'll also disagree that they paid what the market deemed approriate. Too often, Sather seems to be bidding against himself when it comes to guys he falls in love with.

Bottom line is simple, good teams get the right players at the right price. We have no constructed a good team.
Didn't Dallas offer nearly the same deal to Redden? And Buffalo the same to Drury? I don't remember what anyone else offered for Gomez, but I'd bet the received offers close to what we gave him.

Slats doesn't bid against himself, he just doesn't know when to quit when other teams start bidding too high. Seems like he doesn't like "losing" when it comes to bidding on free agents.

Anyway, still like this trade. I may have been Zaborsky's biggest advocate here, but he needed a new organization if he was ever to make it.

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07-20-2010, 03:15 PM
  #83
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I think everyone's fave is still available

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07-20-2010, 03:48 PM
  #84
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now i can die in peace

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07-20-2010, 04:20 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
You chopped off the first half of my statement.

I said that Sather got exactly what the team needed and that it didn't work. I'm not saying that no one understands it didn't work, it clearly didn't. I was stating that I wish more people could understand that in signing Gomez and Drury, Sather got the team exactly what it needed at that time and it just didn't work.
that's extremely debatable as well. We needed a 2c and a defenseman. We already had a very good 1C with Nylander, who meshed well with our uberstar Jagr. Instead we got 2 centers, neither who meshed well with Jagr, and were still left out to dry defensively.

Clearly it was not well thought out even at the time of the signings.

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07-20-2010, 04:23 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Take a look at what Danny Briere got from the Flyers in the same offseason and tell me that Drury and Gomez didn't get what the market deemed appropriate. So you can disagree all you want, but respectfully I have to say I think you have blinders on in your distain for Sather, just like a lot of other people here.
Then clearly you haven't read enough of my posts.

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07-20-2010, 04:27 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Didn't Dallas offer nearly the same deal to Redden? And Buffalo the same to Drury? I don't remember what anyone else offered for Gomez, but I'd bet the received offers close to what we gave him.

Slats doesn't bid against himself, he just doesn't know when to quit when other teams start bidding too high. Seems like he doesn't like "losing" when it comes to bidding on free agents.
Any time we do something head scratching the Rangers PR office leaks information about all the other teams that were supposedly in play.

Curiously the winning teams seldom seem to run into this same problem.

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07-20-2010, 04:51 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Osminator View Post
I think everyone's fave is still available
I don't think we could ever forget the power of his stache.

Go get him, Slats!

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07-22-2010, 01:12 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
McCue is a goon defenseman

Another trade with Anaheim
For another defenseman. I personally do not think Zaborsky is coming back to play for an AHL affiliate. Even if he was assured a spot on the Ducks roster, I still don't know if he wants to come back or is just happy playing pro hockey in Europe. He's still young.

Skipping right to my point, I'm curious if Sather thinks by adding Eminger and McCue, on top of all of the other "D" prospects...that Staal does in fact become expendable.

Remember, this is not what I think. But I wonder if this is what Sather/Schoenfeld/Messier/Tortorella think. In other words, keep stock piling cheap defensemen, and hope that we can find a solid 3 pairs. Then go out and get.....?

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07-25-2010, 11:28 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
At the same time the Redden signing is the only truly BAD signing he has made. Coming out of 06-07 we needed two centers. He went and got two centers. A playmaker to play with Jagr (Gomez) and a guts/clutch/leader guy to play on the second line (Drury).

They got paid what the market deemed appropriate. I can't stand the people that sit here and act like Sather overpaid them by 2 million each on purpose. At the time they were great signings and every "expert" who now bashes us has us as one of the top-5 teams in the league. The signings made sense. They just didn't work out.

Redden is the one that should have never happened...
Sather overpaid Gomez & Drury -market value wasn't that high. Overpaid Rozy, Redden & Boogie. In the past it was Holik , Skrudland , Quintal. I'm so glad he didn't sign KOvy because he would have overpaid him too.

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07-25-2010, 11:30 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding RangerBlue View Post
Sather overpaid Gomez & Drury -market value wasn't that high. Overpaid Rozy, Redden & Boogie. In the past it was Holik , Skrudland , Quintal. I'm so glad he didn't sign KOvy because he would have overpaid him too.
How did he overpay them? Market value WAS that high. Look what Danny Briere got from Philly. And Rozy was no overpaid either. Take a look at the UFA contracts defenseman have gotten in the last 3 years. Rozy is right in line with that.

And you can't bring Holik or anything from the pre salary cap era up. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

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07-25-2010, 05:42 PM
  #92
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Did you guys watch the player profile video? Holy crap this guy is one of the worst skaters I have ever seen...I know there isn't a really clear shot of him, but look at some of the clips, oh my god.

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07-25-2010, 06:36 PM
  #93
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Did you guys watch the player profile video? Holy crap this guy is one of the worst skaters I have ever seen...I know there isn't a really clear shot of him, but look at some of the clips, oh my god.
It's been said over and over again. This trade was nothing but Sather getting something for a guy who was never going to play for us. If McCue does nothing more than protect Stepan, Grachev and Kreider in the AHL then that is fine.

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Old
07-26-2010, 01:08 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Bleeding RangerBlue View Post
Sather overpaid Gomez & Drury -market value wasn't that high. Overpaid Rozy, Redden & Boogie. In the past it was Holik , Skrudland , Quintal. I'm so glad he didn't sign KOvy because he would have overpaid him too.
I think the real difference is between market value (determined by the player and other GMs) and internal ability to set a reasonable offer based on expected role/production (determined by the GM/staff). Sather has repeatedly drastically overestimated expected production, but that doesn't mean market value wasn't in the same ballpark.

Btw, Sather had to pay a bit of a premium because Holik wanted to sign with a winning team, but he didn't pay that much more than Holik was being offered by other teams. http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1840485

Thanks again to whoever posted that link a while ago. Yeah, it's very long, but it shares some insider knowledge about that particular time and free agency negotiations in general.

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07-26-2010, 06:32 AM
  #95
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Skrudland and Quintal were Smith's signings. Skrudland was brought in to replace Mess's leadership in the summer of 97 and Quintal was one of the 6 UFAs that Smith signed in 99. Everything else in recent memory is on Slats. I'm of opinion that Slats has paid the market value for players that he signed, but like 2k2 has said, he doesn't know when to stop. Which is huge and is killing us.

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