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Old
07-21-2010, 11:47 AM
  #1
t3hg00se
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Col-NYR

To Col
Michal Rozsival
Dane Byers edit*Hagelin
*Mike Sauer
2nd 2011 (WSH)

To NYR
Ryan Stoa
Scott Hannan



Colorado gets an upgrade over Hannan in Rozsival, whose cap hit is higher, but salary is lower over the next 2 seasons. The Avalanche are strong when it comes to defensive prospects (NYR's strength), so look elsewhere for a gritty two way winger prospect in Dane Byers. The Avalanche are becoming incredibly deep up the middle with Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, Mueller, Galiardi, and now Hishon in the pool, all being natural centers and can afford to trade off Stoa, who looks as if he'd be forced to play 3rd/4th line wing anyway. Byers could step into that slot next season no problem.

The NYR free up a minor amount of cap space, but gain $5 million off the cap for next off-season, which has a lot of potential UFA targets. Scott Hannan blocks a lot of shots, and while a downgrade form Rozsival in my opinion, would work just fine here for one year. Ryan Stoa adds another center to the deck for the NYR, gritty, two way, and tough, the obvious mold the new Rangers are trying to go for. I see Stoa as a second Dubinsky, at best down the road he could be a great 2nd line two way center with some toughness, at worst he takes more than a year in the AHL and comes up to center the third line when Drury is off the books. Stepan, Anisimov, Stoa, Werek would be our center prospect depth.

So, how bad is it?


edit* As seeing that Byers would be redundant for the Avalanche, I've changed him out with Carl Hagelin, he's a speedy two way winger with a great shot playing for the University of Michigan. Also added Michal Sauer, a great prospect that would have been on the Rangers roster last season if not for injuries holding him back. He's a physical shutdown dman who has been far and away the best defender for the Wolfpack when healthy. He simply has no chance playing for the NYR anymore though because there just is not any room, and they obviously are not willing to take a chance on him when they have Ryan McDonagh and McIlrath in the pipeline.


Last edited by t3hg00se: 07-21-2010 at 12:33 PM.
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Old
07-21-2010, 11:52 AM
  #2
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Avs need more defensive dmen like Hannan and not a Rozsival type player.

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Old
07-21-2010, 11:53 AM
  #3
thedoctor
                    
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
To Col
Michal Rozsival
Dane Byers
2nd 2011 (WSH)

To NYR
Ryan Stoa
Scott Hannan
4th 2011


Colorado gets an upgrade over Hannan in Rozsival, whose cap hit is higher, but salary is lower over the next 2 seasons. The Avalanche are strong when it comes to defensive prospects (NYR's strength), so look elsewhere for a gritty two way winger prospect in Dane Byers. The Avalanche are becoming incredibly deep up the middle with Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly, Mueller, Galiardi, and now Hishon in the pool, all being natural centers and can afford to trade off Stoa, who looks as if he'd be forced to play 3rd/4th line wing anyway. Byers could step into that slot next season no problem.

The NYR free up a minor amount of cap space, but gain $5 million off the cap for next off-season, which has a lot of potential UFA targets. Scott Hannan blocks a lot of shots, and while a downgrade form Rozsival in my opinion, would work just fine here for one year. Ryan Stoa adds another center to the deck for the NYR, gritty, two way, and tough, the obvious mold the new Rangers are trying to go for. I see Stoa as a second Dubinsky, at best down the road he could be a great 2nd line two way center with some toughness, at worst he takes more than a year in the AHL and comes up to center the third line when Drury is off the books. Stepan, Anisimov, Stoa, Werek would be our center prospect depth.

So, how bad is it?
Bad.

1. Rozsival is not an upgrade over Hannan. Hannan was our best D last year (though he does have a vocal group that hates him).

2. Rozsival sucks, and he's an offensive D. We have too many of those already, and more coming up through the system.

3. Stoa is a LW, and a much better prospect than Byers. And I don't even like Stoa that much.

4. Avs have plenty of gritty winger prospects.

This deal is fail. :/

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:01 PM
  #4
t3hg00se
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Rozsival doesn't suck T_T

He was without a doubt our best defenseman behind Staal last season defensively. Rozsival still has an offensive element to his game, but does play a much more defensive role than he used to, he averages 22 minutes a night, playing over 26 in important games with no issue.

My mistake I guess on underating Hannan, I feel like every time I see him play he just completely underwhelms me.

An underestimation on both parts I guess.

I guess Hagelin or Horak would fit much better over Byers though.

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:06 PM
  #5
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Avs need more Shutdown/Defensive/Physical Dmen in our lineup. Plus we have Shattenkirk, Barrie, Holos, Elliott can give Cumiskey bigger role in lineup for future offensive weapons on point, Also if we do hang onto to liles and then we also have Quincey.

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:10 PM
  #6
t3hg00se
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Alright, I added Hagelin as an option over Byers, and threw Sauer in from the Rangers with no addition from the Avalanche.

Sauer seems to be the player you're looking for, if not for his injuries these last few seasons, he'd be the player the Rangers are looking for too

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:11 PM
  #7
thedoctor
                    
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
Rozsival doesn't suck T_T

He was without a doubt our best defenseman behind Staal last season defensively. Rozsival still has an offensive element to his game, but does play a much more defensive role than he used to, he averages 22 minutes a night, playing over 26 in important games with no issue.

My mistake I guess on underating Hannan, I feel like every time I see him play he just completely underwhelms me.

An underestimation on both parts I guess.

I guess Hagelin or Horak would fit much better over Byers though.
Oh really? Why then are most NYR fans saying he does? Why have so many tried to move him for nothing? Why do I think he's overpaid when I watch him? Why does googling "Rozsival sucks" return so many directly relevant results?

He's not terrible in the abstract, I grant you, but for his contract, he's terrible. Just like this deal.

Here, I'll counter you:

JM Liles

for

Rozsival + good pick/prospect

edit: and the amended deal still sucks. Quantity for quality.

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07-21-2010, 12:18 PM
  #8
t3hg00se
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Oh really? Why then are most NYR fans saying he does? Why have so many tried to move him for nothing? Why do I think he's overpaid when I watch him? Why does googling "Rozsival sucks" return so many directly relevant results?

He's not terrible in the abstract, I grant you, but for his contract, he's terrible. Just like this deal.

Here, I'll counter you:

JM Liles

for

Rozsival + good pick/prospect

edit: and the amended deal still sucks. Quantity for quality.
Hey, you can ask any intelligent poster on the Rangers board the skinny on Rozsival and you'll hear just about the same thing I've said here. The casual fans need a whipping boy, and when Rozsival makes a mistake, he makes a mistake. He's too easy a target when his game is truly that of a mule, no flash, no big hit, just first pass, slap shot, good defensive play.

And there is nothing wrong what so ever with Rozsival's contract for a team that isn't spending to the cap, 7 million over the next few seasons for a guy that logs minutes like Rozsival is a good value.



I was also under the impression that Stoa had fallen in the eyes of the Aves, it's the only reason I thought he'd be available in a deal like this. If he's not or hasn't, my bad, really.

I don't see how the amended deal still sucks though, Sauer and Hagelin are quality prospects. Without Sauer's injuries, he's in the NHL now playing #4/5 minutes. In his 3 game sample size, he didn't look out of place at all. If Sauer didn't have an injury history, this deal would be lopsided in Colorado's favor. I'd assume if Colorado did this deal they would either be expecting all or nothing from Sauer. If he kicks his injury history, awesome, he's a physical shutdown guy that will fit right in. If he doesn't? The Avalanche have the defensive prospects to not even feel a sting.

And Hagelin is far from a throw in, http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=105390 , those are great growth patterns and he's a player with fantastic tools. In fact, his numbers look similar to Stoa's, and he has a better Sophmore year.


Last edited by t3hg00se: 07-21-2010 at 12:27 PM.
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Old
07-21-2010, 12:23 PM
  #9
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Roszival is only overpaid by what, half a million or maybe a million? It's called being a free agent.

He eats minutes and can be really solid when not stuck with Redden. A lot of Rangers fans b&m about him because his contract seems bad when compounded by the cap hits of Drury and Redden. Yes, he makes mistakes sometimes, but he's a solid d man especially for the actual salary.

Based on performance AND the fact Roszival will make 3million less in actual salary than his cap hit the next two years, makes him far from garbage as trade bait. That's why some trade proposals here are based on Roszival - he's actually very tradeable.

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:26 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
And there is nothing wrong what so ever with Rozsival's contract for a team that isn't spending to the cap, 7 million over the next few seasons for a guy that logs minutes like Rozsival is a good value.
Rozy "earned" his contract from 1.) his offensive game and 2.) Glen Sather. Those two things are all you need to know about how overpaid he is. While Rozy is a fine player, he is not an upgrade over Hannan except on the offensive side (if I had to rate their D: I'd give Hannan a 8-8.5 and Rozy a 5, if 5 is NHL average). Hannan is one of the top 10 most reliable defensemen in the league, and I don't think you'd find anyone argue against that. He's a great leader and well respected by his teammates and opponents. Sure, he's overpaid by $.5m or so, but what UFA isn't these days?

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07-21-2010, 12:39 PM
  #11
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Pass. This is a lateral move at best. Any move that's desired effect is to give Sather more money for free agency is a bad one, IMO.

Nice to see the underrating of Rozsival is still unwavering. The general assessment of some folks in this thread is downright amusing, and this is coming from a guy that really doesn't like Rozsival.

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:40 PM
  #12
t3hg00se
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stories View Post
Rozy "earned" his contract from 1.) his offensive game and 2.) Glen Sather. Those two things are all you need to know about how overpaid he is. While Rozy is a fine player, he is not an upgrade over Hannan except on the offensive side (if I had to rate their D: I'd give Hannan a 8-8.5 and Rozy a 5, if 5 is NHL average). Hannan is one of the top 10 most reliable defensemen in the league, and I don't think you'd find anyone argue against that. He's a great leader and well respected by his teammates and opponents. Sure, he's overpaid by $.5m or so, but what UFA isn't these days?
I can't comment on Hannan's play against an Avs fan, you've obviously seen him much more than my 5-10 game sample size over the last season.

But I can tell you, Rozsival is certainly an above average NHL defenseman, I wouldn't say he is an 8 on the 10 scale, but I certainly wouldn't say he is a 7.5.

Would you say $3.5 million a year for a defenseman that plays like Rozsival is an overpayment? Because for a team not spending to the cap, that's what he is. If the NYR didn't spend to the cap (lol) there would be no way we'd want to move him, but we do, and we have great defensive prospects just waiting to break into the NHL and a need for cap space. It's the reason you see Rozsival's name thrown around here so much. He isn't Redden. We throw Rozsival's name around because we know he can give us a decent return, as well as clear us some cap, on top of giving us room to clear a spot for a defensive prospect.

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07-21-2010, 12:43 PM
  #13
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I think in general Avs make a bad trading partner simply because they seem content with what they have.

I would think Avs are looking to add rather than subtract a solid defensive defenseman. You don't know how much Foote can handle these days and we have a bunch of kids that will get a shot this season.

I think it is a shame that 90% of trade proposals here are for people trying to get rid of a player on their team instead of thinking of players they would want and what they would be willing to offer for them (hint: it is rarely the guy you want to get rid off that the other team wants).

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:43 PM
  #14
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Hannan is better than rozival

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:46 PM
  #15
t3hg00se
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think in general Avs make a bad trading partner simply because they seem content with what they have.

I would think Avs are looking to add rather than subtract a solid defensive defenseman. You don't know how much Foote can handle these days and we have a bunch of kids that will get a shot this season.

I think it is a shame that 90% of trade proposals here are for people trying to get rid of a player on their team instead of thinking of players they would want and what they would be willing to offer for them (hint: it is rarely the guy you want to get rid off that the other team wants).
I actually made this proposal with the plan of getting Stoa to the NYR, and not with the intention of moving Rozsival. It's funny that it certainly doesn't seem that way

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Old
07-21-2010, 12:49 PM
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Byers only has value to Byers fans. I love Byers style, heart, and play, but at the NHL level he looks like he's skating in mud and everyone blows past him. There's a reason why he only lasted 5 games (besides costing the coach money) and why we acquired Prust.

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07-21-2010, 12:51 PM
  #17
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I was under the impression that Rozsival has kind of turned a corner in New York and is a solid defender all around. I'm a big fan of Hannan, though, and he's the kind of responsible, defensive d-man we lack. (Wilson and Foote are our only other stay at home guys, and Wilson still has questions about his hockey sense, and Foote has lost a few steps.) Though this overall isn't a terrible trade. Assuming it were to be done (which I'm not entirely convinced of) would this amendment be acceptable?

To Colorado:
Michael Rozsival.
Michael Sauer.
Chris Kreider.

To NYR:
Scott Hannan.
Ryan Stoa.

Basically just swap Byers/Hagelin and the second round pick out for Kreider?

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Old
07-21-2010, 01:01 PM
  #18
t3hg00se
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexyz2618 View Post
I was under the impression that Rozsival has kind of turned a corner in New York and is a solid defender all around. I'm a big fan of Hannan, though, and he's the kind of responsible, defensive d-man we lack. (Wilson and Foote are our only other stay at home guys, and Wilson still has questions about his hockey sense, and Foote has lost a few steps.) Though this overall isn't a terrible trade. Assuming it were to be done (which I'm not entirely convinced of) would this amendment be acceptable?

To Colorado:
Michael Rozsival.
Michael Sauer.
Chris Kreider.

To NYR:
Scott Hannan.
Ryan Stoa.

Basically just swap Byers/Hagelin and the second round pick out for Kreider?
I'm not sure we'd bite, the issue there is that Kreider probably has more value than perhaps any other player in this deal. He was seen as a project when picked, hence why selected at 19, but has shown that he is very quickly putting everything together, the Rangers tried incredibly hard to get him to go pro this year. Some people see Kreider as our best prospect, even ahead of Stepan and Grachev. If the 09' draft was done over again, there is a good chance Kreider would be in the top 10.

I certainly think something could be worked out here though.

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Old
07-21-2010, 01:07 PM
  #19
GAGLine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexyz2618 View Post
I was under the impression that Rozsival has kind of turned a corner in New York and is a solid defender all around. I'm a big fan of Hannan, though, and he's the kind of responsible, defensive d-man we lack. (Wilson and Foote are our only other stay at home guys, and Wilson still has questions about his hockey sense, and Foote has lost a few steps.) Though this overall isn't a terrible trade. Assuming it were to be done (which I'm not entirely convinced of) would this amendment be acceptable?

To Colorado:
Michael Rozsival.
Michael Sauer.
Chris Kreider.

To NYR:
Scott Hannan.
Ryan Stoa.

Basically just swap Byers/Hagelin and the second round pick out for Kreider?
Lol. No way man. Sorry, you aren't getting one of our best (I think our best) prospect for Hannan and Stoa.

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Old
07-21-2010, 01:08 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by wkory33 View Post
Avs need more Shutdown/Defensive/Physical Dmen in our lineup. Plus we have Shattenkirk, Barrie, Holos, Elliott can give Cumiskey bigger role in lineup for future offensive weapons on point, Also if we do hang onto to liles and then we also have Quincey.
Robyn Regehr

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Old
07-21-2010, 01:08 PM
  #21
Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Oh really? Why then are most NYR fans saying he does? Why have so many tried to move him for nothing? Why do I think he's overpaid when I watch him? Why does googling "Rozsival sucks" return so many directly relevant results?

He's not terrible in the abstract, I grant you, but for his contract, he's terrible. Just like this deal.

Here, I'll counter you:

JM Liles

for

Rozsival + good pick/prospect

edit: and the amended deal still sucks. Quantity for quality.
False. Rozsival does not suck. Plays the power play and pk, is our #2 defenseman. Hes overpaid by 750k. Big ****in whoop. I wouldnt trade Rozy for JM liles straight up let alone us adding a prospect.

Major fail and major pass.

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Old
07-21-2010, 01:12 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexyz2618 View Post
I was under the impression that Rozsival has kind of turned a corner in New York and is a solid defender all around. I'm a big fan of Hannan, though, and he's the kind of responsible, defensive d-man we lack. (Wilson and Foote are our only other stay at home guys, and Wilson still has questions about his hockey sense, and Foote has lost a few steps.) Though this overall isn't a terrible trade. Assuming it were to be done (which I'm not entirely convinced of) would this amendment be acceptable?

To Colorado:
Michael Rozsival.
Michael Sauer.
Chris Kreider.

To NYR:
Scott Hannan.
Ryan Stoa.

Basically just swap Byers/Hagelin and the second round pick out for Kreider?
Sorry our #1 prospect isnt going any where for Scott ****ing Hannan and Stoa blows any way.

Rozsival has been a solid defenseman throughout his entire time here. Rangers fans always need a scape goat and unfortunately Redden is just to bad to even be a scape goat so its Rozsival. Hes a fine defenseman, only makes 3 mil in actual salary i believe this year and again we have no interest in trading him. /thread.

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07-21-2010, 01:16 PM
  #23
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Lol. No way man. Sorry, you aren't getting one of our best (I think our best) prospect for Hannan and Stoa.
Hmm. I didn't know Rangers fans were so high on Kreider, my mistake.

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07-21-2010, 01:18 PM
  #24
t3hg00se
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
Sorry our #1 prospect isnt going any where for Scott ****ing Hannan and Stoa blows any way.

Rozsival has been a solid defenseman throughout his entire time here. Rangers fans always need a scape goat and unfortunately Redden is just to bad to even be a scape goat so its Rozsival. Hes a fine defenseman, only makes 3 mil in actual salary i believe this year and again we have no interest in trading him. /thread.
It's so true.

Doesn't it depress you?

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07-21-2010, 01:46 PM
  #25
t3hg00se
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Pass. This is a lateral move at best. Any move that's desired effect is to give Sather more money for free agency is a bad one, IMO.

Nice to see the underrating of Rozsival is still unwavering. The general assessment of some folks in this thread is downright amusing, and this is coming from a guy that really doesn't like Rozsival.
Who was it, Jonathan? Who said giving Sather cap space is like giving a drunk teenager car keys.

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