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Old
07-21-2010, 01:32 PM
  #26
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by Alexyz2618 View Post
Hmm. I didn't know Rangers fans were so high on Kreider, my mistake.
He's 6'2" 220 lbs and one of the best skaters in the world. Apart from his physical attributes, he came a long way in just one year in terms of learning the game.

In his first 17 games he only had 2g and 3a. Then he went to the WJC and scored 6g 1a in 7 games, helping the US win the gold. After that, he scored 13g 5a in his last 21 games for BC, helping them win the Beanpot, Hockey East and the NCAA championship. And then he followed that up by playing for the US national team at the world championships, the youngest player on the team by 3 years, where I believe he finished with 1g and 1a in 6 games.

So yeah, we're very high on him kid's going to be a beast if he keeps developing

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Old
07-21-2010, 02:18 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Oh really? Why then are most NYR fans saying he does? Why have so many tried to move him for nothing? Why do I think he's overpaid when I watch him? Why does googling "Rozsival sucks" return so many directly relevant results?

He's not terrible in the abstract, I grant you, but for his contract, he's terrible. Just like this deal.

Here, I'll counter you:

JM Liles

for

Rozsival + good pick/prospect

edit: and the amended deal still sucks. Quantity for quality.
Most Rangers fans are saying Rozsival sucks?

You don't have a ****ing clue buddy. And if you're using google to research a player, that says a whole lot about your opinion.

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Old
07-21-2010, 02:20 PM
  #28
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The loud, obnoxious 5% of Ranger fans say Rozy sucks. The same 5% that advocated scratching Girardi after the Gaborik-Carcillo fight, the same 5% that said Jagr was a terrible captain, ayou get the picture.
Rozsival is a very solid defenseman. But I would expect Colorado management to know that ,even if its fans have no idea.

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Old
07-21-2010, 02:35 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
Hey, you can ask any intelligent poster on the Rangers board the skinny on Rozsival and you'll hear just about the same thing I've said here. The casual fans need a whipping boy, and when Rozsival makes a mistake, he makes a mistake. He's too easy a target when his game is truly that of a mule, no flash, no big hit, just first pass, slap shot, good defensive play.

And there is nothing wrong what so ever with Rozsival's contract for a team that isn't spending to the cap, 7 million over the next few seasons for a guy that logs minutes like Rozsival is a good value.
Interesting point on his cap hit, I was unaware his salary was so different from his cap hit. So he's Brett Clark with a bigger cap hit. Hey, if you like Rozy, keep him. I still don't. He's an offensive defenseman on a team that needs to shed them, for our best defender in Hannan when we need more of that. Not to mention that Hannan is a damn good defender, better than Rozy for sure, and Stoa is way better as a prospect than the stuff you're offering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
I was also under the impression that Stoa had fallen in the eyes of the Aves, it's the only reason I thought he'd be available in a deal like this. If he's not or hasn't, my bad, really.
What gave you that impression? He tore up the AHL last season and the organization like him. I'm not quite as high on him because I don't know if his talent will translate to the NHL as well (he's pretty slow). He's still a good prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
I don't see how the amended deal still sucks though, Sauer and Hagelin are quality prospects. Without Sauer's injuries, he's in the NHL now playing #4/5 minutes. In his 3 game sample size, he didn't look out of place at all. If Sauer didn't have an injury history, this deal would be lopsided in Colorado's favor. I'd assume if Colorado did this deal they would either be expecting all or nothing from Sauer. If he kicks his injury history, awesome, he's a physical shutdown guy that will fit right in. If he doesn't? The Avalanche have the defensive prospects to not even feel a sting.

And Hagelin is far from a throw in, http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=105390 , those are great growth patterns and he's a player with fantastic tools. In fact, his numbers look similar to Stoa's, and he has a better Sophmore year.
Look, Hagelin, Byers, Sauer, they're ok prospects...but they're still bottom 6ers and 4-6 defensemen for a guy with real top 6 potential. Quantity for quality. Why would the Avs do that?

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Old
07-21-2010, 02:44 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Most Rangers fans are saying Rozsival sucks?

You don't have a ****ing clue buddy. And if you're using google to research a player, that says a whole lot about your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
The loud, obnoxious 5% of Ranger fans say Rozy sucks. The same 5% that advocated scratching Girardi after the Gaborik-Carcillo fight, the same 5% that said Jagr was a terrible captain, ayou get the picture.
Rozsival is a very solid defenseman. But I would expect Colorado management to know that ,even if its fans have no idea.
Well, if you guys like him so much, then why trade him?

Rozy isn't terrible, but a 5m per year cap hit is overpayment, a lot of it. I would pay him 3m per year. He's a slightly larger Brett Clark with a better point shot -- decent defender, good first pass, decent offensive ability, can log big minutes with reasonable success, but doesn't really play physical, and makes awful mistakes that people latch on. I've watched him, I know the player.

It's true his salary is near those 3m levels now, but CO won't be at the cap floor forever and we might trade him again, so the cap hit does matter. No desire to take that on for a guy that's frankly nothing special, in return for our best defenseman. Would rather sign Willie Mitchell or something. Cheaper, better potential return, better fit for our needs, and don't give up Hannan and Stoa. Hell, I'd rather have Clark back at 1.5m per year or whatever he signed for.

We don't want Rozsival. It's that simple.

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Well, if you guys like him so much, then why trade him?

Rozy isn't terrible, but a 5m per year cap hit is overpayment, a lot of it. I would pay him 3m per year. He's a slightly larger Brett Clark with a better point shot -- decent defender, good first pass, decent offensive ability, can log big minutes with reasonable success, but doesn't really play physical, and makes awful mistakes that people latch on. I've watched him, I know the player.

It's true his salary is near those 3m levels now, but CO won't be at the cap floor forever and we might trade him again, so the cap hit does matter. No desire to take that on for a guy that's frankly nothing special, in return for our best defenseman. Would rather sign Willie Mitchell or something. Cheaper, better potential return, better fit for our needs, and don't give up Hannan and Stoa. Hell, I'd rather have Clark back at 1.5m per year or whatever he signed for.

We don't want Rozsival. It's that simple.
Stop making pretend you know what you're talking about. You don't watch Rozsival. And stop saying ridiculous things like
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Well, if you guys like him so much, then why trade him?
We're not GM's. We don't have any control over who gets traded. If a couple of dumb Avalanche fans posted their opinions about something, does that give me the liberty of labeling the entire fanbase as this or that? Grow up.

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:01 PM
  #32
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i'd hate to see rosival on the avs, everytime i see him, which isnt much, hes making brutal giveaways and being soft, so for one that tells me he's inconsistent. but i dont see many rangers games, but whenever i do he always looks bad.

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:06 PM
  #33
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Generally applaud the thought of trying to suggest a deal with a little something for both sides;;;; however, execution of that thought is a no.

replying to Alexyz2618
As to a reworking of this deal including Kreider, big time NO.
Everybody repeat after me, Kreider is the next Dave Keon.
If the best players in the league are offered for Kreider, I still want to explore an alternate route to see if they'll take something in lieu of Krieder.

As to the original variation of the original deal, Hagelin for Byers, I'm not sure I move Hagelin, and am leaning against.

In interests of objective discussion, Rosival is a defensive D, not an offensive one.
He usually plays a very good D game as to stick checking, shot blocking, etc.; he is ordinary but minimally acceptable as to playing the man.
Where R gets into trouble is while playing a solid game 14, 15+ min per nite, he will often make 1-3 blunders, and they're usually big blunders. That's the current flaw he's developed in his game. That aside, he's reliable.

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:09 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
Who was it, Jonathan? Who said giving Sather cap space is like giving a drunk teenager car keys.
It was Singin' if I remember correctly!

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:10 PM
  #35
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Regardless of the true value of Roszival, the player, what difference does it make when it's been stated that the Avs don't need a player of his style, especially if it means removing Hannan from the lineup?

Hannan's overpaid. Roszival's overpaid. Fine. But the Avs take on salary here, and as we've seen from this offseason, management has a very very low internal budget cap, and thus shown no desire to take on any extra salary.

So with these two as centerpieces, the trade just doesn't make sense--at least from an Avs point of view, and once that's realized, the trade falls apart and the discussion is pretty much meaningless.

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Gali39 View Post
i'd hate to see rosival on the avs, everytime i see him, which isnt much, hes making brutal giveaways and being soft, so for one that tells me he's inconsistent. but i dont see many rangers games, but whenever i do he always looks bad.
Only two dmen in this league who played 80+ games had less giveaway's than Rozsival.

Michael had a rough start to the season. Off-season surgery, topped off with a whole new defensive approach due to the coaching change here in NY. Torts wanted his dmen to be more involved with the play. Pretty much every Ranger dmen struggled early on adapting to the new system. Even our own precious Marc Staal.

Rozsival was arguably the best dmen on this team down the stretch.

He's not worthy of a 5M cap hit. He is slightly overpaid. I have no problems admitting this isn't the guy teams would kill for. But he's a fine dmen who eats up minutes, plays against top-6 talent night after night, and has only managed to miss 10 games over the last 5 season's which is rather exceptional considering the role he's played here during that time.

If you dont' want him, that's fine. Rozsival wouldn't be the guy I would target either. But he's not a bad player. He's not mediocre, or even average. Rozsival's a quality dmen without too many voids in his game.

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:15 PM
  #37
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Rozy at 4 million would be fine, he's only over paid by a million or so

Rangers will keep him because if he's moved the D stinks but with him its descent and has alot of potential with Staal, Girardi, McDonaugh, Del Zotto.............the big problem on the ranger D is if Redden salary was gone and they had a guy that deserves that much like Gonchar

Every Ranger fan would love that D but Sathers an idiot and gave money to the wrong guy. Even if they still had Tyutin and never signed Redden that off season it would be solid

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:21 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Stop making pretend you know what you're talking about. You don't watch Rozsival.
Don't watch him? He's only on EVERY WEEKEND on NBC

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ensane View Post
Regardless of the true value of Roszival, the player, what difference does it make when it's been stated that the Avs don't need a player of his style, especially if it means removing Hannan from the lineup?

Hannan's overpaid. Roszival's overpaid. Fine. But the Avs take on salary here, and as we've seen from this offseason, management has a very very low internal budget cap, and thus shown no desire to take on any extra salary.

So with these two as centerpieces, the trade just doesn't make sense--at least from an Avs point of view, and once that's realized, the trade falls apart and the discussion is pretty much meaningless.
Actually, you'd be saving salary, at least this year. Rozy will make 4 mil this year and 3 mil next year. Hannan will make 4.5 mil this year.

Either way, I don't really see any reason to do this deal. It doesn't do anything for the Rangers other than clear some cap space for next offseason. But we can do that by trading Rozy next offseason (or at the deadline if we are out of it), and maybe actually get something of value back for him (a pick probably). I like that idea better than making a lateral move and then letting Hannan go for nothing.

Rozy with 1 year left @ 3 mil in actual salary will be attractive to teams that don't spend to the cap.

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Old
07-21-2010, 03:34 PM
  #40
thedoctor
                    
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Stop making pretend you know what you're talking about. You don't watch Rozsival. And stop saying ridiculous things like

We're not GM's. We don't have any control over who gets traded. If a couple of dumb Avalanche fans posted their opinions about something, does that give me the liberty of labeling the entire fanbase as this or that? Grow up.
Really? We're not GMs? Tell me more! Why even come to this thread if you're just saying "we're not GMs, who cares."

Most of the Ranger fans I know hate Rozy for his contract. Most fans I see on here (admittedly, a smaller sample) hate him. The only time I see Ranger fans extolling his virtues is today, when they try to trade him (yes, a fake trade. like all the others on here). I watch him on vs., NHL network, etc., and every time I see a guy that's just OK. I couple that with his huge cap # and I'm not a fan. That's my opinion on him, based on those factors. Still gonna call me a liar?

This whole discussion is ridiculous anyways, as Ensane said. Rozy is a terrible fit on the Avs, especially with Hannan going the other way. We don't want him. EOT.

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07-21-2010, 03:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Most of the Ranger fans I know hate Rozy for his contract. Most fans I see on here (admittedly, a smaller sample) hate him. The only time I see Ranger fans extolling his virtues is today, when they try to trade him (yes, a fake trade. like all the others on here). I watch him on vs., NHL network, etc., and every time I see a guy that's just OK. I couple that with his huge cap # and I'm not a fan. That's my opinion on him, based on those factors. Still gonna call me a liar?
That's not true. His name is been throwing around in trade proposals way too often and he is getting a helluva bad rep from that. But in EVERY one of those proposals you'll find some reasonable Rangers fans who don't want him to be traded.

Oh, I don't want him to be traded. We need him. You don't want him. This proposal does nothing for either team, let's agree to that.

And no, Rozsival is not an offensive D. I read that multiple times in this thread. He can chip in some offense, but it's not his game (at least not any more).

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Old
07-21-2010, 04:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
Well, if you guys like him so much, then why trade him?
Most of us don't want to trade him, including myself.

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Old
07-21-2010, 04:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
Don't watch him? He's only on EVERY WEEKEND on NBC
He doesn't play for the Pens or the Capitals

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Old
07-21-2010, 04:22 PM
  #44
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Don't know anything about the Ranger prospects, but I don't see a Hannan-Rozsival swap as beneficial for Colorado. Hannan is too important to Colorado's mediocre defense, and even thought Rozsival can log big minutes in all situations, Colorado should be focused on getting a defenseman of greater caliber if they look for help outside of the organization. Otherwise, they'll fill voids with their deep defensive prospect pool.

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Old
07-21-2010, 04:23 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
Sorry our #1 prospect isnt going any where for Scott ****ing Hannan and Stoa blows any way.

Rozsival has been a solid defenseman throughout his entire time here. Rangers fans always need a scape goat and unfortunately Redden is just to bad to even be a scape goat so its Rozsival. Hes a fine defenseman, only makes 3 mil in actual salary i believe this year and again we have no interest in trading him. /thread.
Bravo. He scored 23 goals and 40 points in 53 games as a first year pro but he blows.

Keep teaching us how much you know about hockey!! PLEASE!!!!

HUGH JESSIMAN IS GOING TO BE THE BEST POWER FORWARD IN THE GAME FOR SUREZZZZZ!~!!!

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