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A huge thinking outside the box crazy edmonton/boston idea

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Old
07-22-2010, 02:35 AM
  #1
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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A huge thinking outside the box crazy edmonton/boston idea

i happen to like Souray... but i know he was injured and he makes a ton of money and hes basically demanded to leave edmonton

Edmonton has lots of cap space... but realistically wont win this year... its a rebuilding year for them. It probably makes sense for them to get the best pick possible and worry about playing for the playoffs next year.

they do need some warm bodies to fill out their lineup though.

My idea is very radical... and to the best of my knowledge has never happened in the NHL... but i think similar things happen in soccor often if i have my info correct.
Im not a huge soccor fan so forgive me if im speaking out of turn.

My idea requires trust between Edmonton and Boston... cause it would amount to borrowing players from each other.

Boston would send Tim Thomas and Michael Ryder and Matt Hunwick and Blake Wheeler to Edmonton... and in return Edmonton would send Nikolai Khabibulin and Sheldon Souray to Boston.

the idea here is simple... Thomas/Ryder/Hunwick/Wheeler will make around 13.5 million dollars and Boston is hard against the cap needing to shed around 2.5 mill once Sturm comes off the LTIR. Souray/Khabibulin make around 9.2. Once Boston spends a couple million on an ufa like Guerin to plug their hole, they have fixed the cap issue and gotten themselves a big banging shooter for the PP to help try to win this year. Gotten a backup goalie with cup winning experience... and a cup winning forward maybe to help with even more leadership issues that became apparant bad during the 4 game wipeout last playoffs.

edmonton spends a bit more money this year... but they can throw thomas into net game after game after game after game. IMHO thomas will thrive and become very valuable in a trade. If he is tradable... Edmonton can trade him and score a bonus for their trouble. If on the other hand, edmonton wants to trade him for khabibulin next year... they have the right.

this is my radical idea. Have a prearranged agreement that edmonton can send us back thomas no matter what the circumstances are... even if he got hurt...

we are just parking thomas in edmonton for one year and letting thomas play alot... and hoping that someone will take him or edmonton will want to keep him.

we are making edmonton take ryder's contract... but they are getting rid of sourays... thats a good deal for them... less money to buy out. and ryder actually can contribute on the ice. he would probably play for them.

i dont personally think hunwick is worth much... but edmonton seems to want another puck moving dman and hunwick doesnt cost much.

wheeler might end up a big bust... or he could become a real steal. Basically the worst that happens is edmonton spends an extra 4 million salary here and gets rid of two headaches. they arent a cup contender anyhow.

boston would owe edmonton a favor after this cause the move is perfect for them. gives them the one guy they still need for a cup run and makes the team affordable.

boston can afford to take thomas back next year, cause some contracts are coming off the books and very likely will be renegotiated for lower cap hits. its just this year he is too expensive. so i wouldnt object to promising edmonton id take him back. thomas is very good when he is healthy.

im not worried about khabibulins health/legal issues either... Rask will be playing most the games if hes healthy and rested. We can afford to go with an AHL backup until Khabibulin is ready to go. I just want Khabibulin around at playoff time in case Rask cracks under preasure or gets too tired or whatever againg

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07-22-2010, 02:48 AM
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slapshots1515
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I'm sure this sort of agreement would not be permitted by the NHL.

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07-22-2010, 02:58 AM
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The original trade seems fair but the future trade can only be done if Boston and Edmonton make a gentleman's agreement with eachother behind close doors and don't mention a word of it to anybody else.

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07-22-2010, 03:00 AM
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don't see why Boston would even consider this.

Khabibulin is worth less than Souray is, and he's a salary dump at this point who nobody wants.

Khabibulin is coming off an injury-plagued year, where he played only 18 games, and is locked up for another 3 yrs at a guaranteed cap hit of $3.75mill... even if he retires, his cap hit will stay.

And that's after coming off an injury-plagued season! His value is zero right now... I doubt anyone wants that contract at all.

To me this trade proposal looks like a complete steal for Edmonton, who unloads 2 horrible contracts, both on multi-year deals with NTC (Khabibulin for 3 more years, Souray for 2 more), while they take on one risk contract in Thomas (3 more years), who's slightly younger and doesn't have the same injury concerns that Khabibulin has, while also coming off back to back stronger seasons... Ryder is a UFA after just one more year, while Wheeler is a RFA now and Hunwick is signed to a good contract and then hits RFA status after a year.

To me, it's 2 bad contracts moving from Edmonton for 1 bad contract, a manageable contract with just 1 year left and 2 young players... so horrible deal for Boston.

I doubt any team in the league has any interest at all in taking on Khabibulin at this point though... 3 yrs left, coming off an injury-plagued season, guaranteed cap hit for 3 yrs even if he retires, and at 37 now... that's as worthless an asset as there is in the NHL.

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07-22-2010, 03:05 AM
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dnicks17
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I'd do this for sure.

Hell, even take out Wheeler and it's a deal.

To be honest, don't need Hunwick in the deal to make me say yes either.

Thomas and Ryder for Souray and Khabi is a dream trade for EDM.

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07-22-2010, 03:07 AM
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Hertl Power
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I think the only way this could be possible is a behind closed doors with people staying quiet and future considterations being a part of the deal. I know it has happened in baseball where a player was traded for future considerations and that player was the future consideration (ie player got traded for himself).

The truth is though that this deal would be collusion which I am assuming without looking at the cba to be against the rules.

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07-22-2010, 03:08 AM
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I Hate Chris Butler
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Gentleman's agreement.

Edmonton: Take our ****** contracts and let us **** your organization!
Boston: Will do!

I imagine that's how the scenario played out in your head, TS.

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07-22-2010, 03:16 AM
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dnicks17
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Doesn't Boston want to get rid of Thomas's contract?

I'm curious as to why they'd want it back.

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07-22-2010, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Doesn't Boston want to get rid of Thomas's contract?

I'm curious as to why they'd want it back.
The idea is that if someone wanted to trade for Thomas, even though he'd be in Edmonton, the return would go to Boston.

P.S.

This is absurdly uneven, but I like this idea for Thomas.

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07-22-2010, 03:45 AM
  #10
denkiteki
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Thomas vs Khabibulin, both are 35+, both end the same time.

Difference...
Khabibulin makes 1.25mil/yr less
Thomas is likely the better of the 2 goalies

Value - Both pretty big negative. The question is rather the 1.25mil saving/yr is worth it for Boston and honestly i would probably prefer Thomas at this point over the 1.25mil saving for Khabibulin. Khabibulin had a DUI this year and seems like he's turning into a head case. Unless Boston can find a way to void his contract, you might be looking at 3.75mil/yr for nothing.

Souray can be a useful player but right now he without a doubt have negative value (as shown by him clearing waivers). He has 1 extra year on his deal than Ryder so its again debatable rather Ryder has more value or Souray. In this case, based on the extra year i'll take my chances with Ryder. Yes Souray, when heathly can be quite an asset but the fact he keeps getting hurt becomes worrisome. His broken hand last year was a fluke but concussion before that is concerning. The multiple shoulder injuries he had also are concerning. Basically since he has been in Edmonton, he had 1 fully healthy season and 2 seasons with multiple (not just 1 major) injuries. If he's 100% healthy, Souray is without a doubt a big asset but i think the injury history is a concern to 29 other teams (probably the main reason he cleared waivers).

So if those 4 bad contracts are close to being a wash or you can even say is a wash, the deal makes no sense at all for Boston. If Boston wants to do a trade like this, they probably should first call teams like ATL, NYI, etc and see if any of them are willing to take Ryder with Matt Hunwick and Blake Wheeler. Honestly, i think there might be a team willing to take Ryder with just Blake Wheeler, who right now is still a fairly decent size asset. Or Boston could bury Ryder/trade him to a team willing to bury Ryder. This fixes their issue of cap space without the need to take a chance on Souray, who again right now has negative value. The Ryder + Wheeler trade would end up saving more money than trade Thomas + Ryder for Khab + Souray (5 + 4 vs 3.75 + 5.4) next season.

Side note, the math on OP seems a bit misleading

5 + 4 + 1.45 = 10.45, so i guess you are assuming Wheeler will get about 3.05mil? I'm not convinced Wheeler will get that type of number due to his offensive numbers being on the low side. The math would really be 10.45 - 5.4 - 3.75 - replacement for a #5/6 dman @ ~1mil = 300k. You need a replacement for Wheeler as well if you trade him and it would cost a similar amount as well. Or if you assume the replacement cost 1.45 mil (same price as Hunwick who isn't on a bad contract), the trade actually saves Boston -150k (in a 2 for 2 swap). Remember roster players need a replacement... they are not prospects!

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07-22-2010, 04:47 AM
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bostons current depth chart up front has savard/krecji/bergeron/campbell likely playing center... and then horton/sturm/recchi/seguin/lucic taking up 5 of the top 6 wing spots... thorton and paille and maybe marchard being the depth guys.

theres only one spot available and both ryder/wheeler competing for it. so we dont need to worry about replacement players. we are over booked and i account for all these other guys in my cap projections.

i dont add bonuses... we are screwed when bonuses are added... so thats a lost cause.

the trick is to get our lineup bolstered with legal contracts. its hard dollars i need to move if im trying to get the cap complinant.

wheeler may not get 3 mill but its a non issue. the math is ryder/thomas and then souray/khabibulin to balance out...

souray replaces one of bostons 7 dman {hunwick} who is included in the deal to free up 1.4 mill to give to a guy like Bill Guerin. Guerin might need some bonus money to agree... but i can live with that and it will be cap compliant.

wheeler simply moves on cause we cant afford him. If edmonton would do the deal straight up khabibulin/souray for thomas/ryder then im all for that. Id move wheeler elsewhere for pick/prospect return... dump hunwick... and use the hunwick money to sign a replacement for wheeler. It works the same.

as for the future... if Edmonton didnt want to keep thomas, they can return him to boston and they have to take khabibulin. Boston doesnt want to trade thomas... but they sort of have to trade him. hes a very nice guy... good teammate and a very good goalie when healthy. Im sure theyd love to keep him. They cant keep him this year without problems... but they can keep him next year without problems.

that 1.25 mill difference between thomas/khabibulin is huge. Id want souray instead of ryder cause i believe souray would help Boston a lot more. Id what khabibulin instead of thomas cause hes all we can afford. I doubt edmonton would want both thomas and khabibulin.

In a perfect situation... thomas plays great and someone offers edmonton something for him and edmonton says thanks... they are happy. boston has successfully reduced their cost in net by 1.25 for the next 2 years... hopefully khabibulin plays great as a backup... and if he doesnt, maybe boston ships him to the khl in 2 years when rask needs a raise.

the contract is alot less then thomas and khabibulin has been a jerk during his career. if boston has to eventually put him in the AHL, its less nasty then doing that to thomas. less bad pr.

I bet Souray on the same team as Chara would be an awesome sight to behold. Souray actually has been a pretty good dman when healthy... a guy that can play 23-24 mins a night and plays nasty... and shoots the puck amazingly well.

as a number 1 guy... he gets exposed... but chara does that job in boston. Boston can actually tell souray its ok to fight...be a thug back there... cause if he gets a penatly, boston still has their number 1 guy on the ice anyhow.

souray will be a better player on a better team then he was being miscast as the saviour for a bad oiler team the last couple years.

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07-22-2010, 05:02 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
Boston can actually tell souray its ok to fight
Don't do that no good ever comes from that with Souray.

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07-22-2010, 06:25 AM
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Reviving the pre-draft insanity.

To Boston
Hemskey
Penner
Souray
Cogs

To Edmonton
Seguin
Wheeler
Ryder
Sturm
Ference

Boston solves it's cap issues without trading Savard and becomes completely stacked to win. Edmonton takes on salary to get back two young players to build with Seguin and Wheeler

Penner-Savard-Horton
Recchi-Bergeron-Hemsky
Lucci-Krecji-Cogs
Paille-X-Thorton

Chara-Seidenberg
Stuart-Souray
Boychuk-Hunwick

Rask

Awesome. Boston would destroy the east this year. Philly would be the only team that is close.

Maybe with Seguin transforming from an untouchable pick to a actually player, people will see that Boston is built to win now.

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07-22-2010, 06:31 AM
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IceDaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Reviving the pre-draft insanity.

To Boston
Hemskey
Penner
Souray
Cogs

To Edmonton
Seguin
Wheeler
Ryder
Sturm
Ference

Boston solves it's cap issues without trading Savard and becomes completely stacked to win. Edmonton takes on salary to get back two young players to build with Seguin and Wheeler

Penner-Savard-Horton
Recchi-Bergeron-Hemsky
Lucci-Krecji-Cogs
Paille-X-Thorton

Chara-Seidenberg
Stuart-Souray
Boychuk-Hunwick

Rask

Awesome. Boston would destroy the east this year. Philly would be the only team that is close.

Maybe with Seguin transforming from an untouchable pick to a actually player, people will see that Boston is built to win now.

I cant decide if you are trying to be funny with that deal. or maybe you are a huge Oil fan..

Either way Bos says hell no to this. They woud deal away Savard before Seguin

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07-22-2010, 07:38 AM
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nexttothemoon
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Well getting rid of Souray and Khabibulin would get a big thumbs up from me. I think Thomas is a very good goalie and Boston may be sorry to see him go if Rask has a slump (which is always a possibility with a goalie).

Doubt that the Oilers and Bruins would do a deal like that but I can certainly see how a trade similar to all that could work for both sides.

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07-22-2010, 08:08 AM
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nickschultzfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
I cant decide if you are trying to be funny with that deal. or maybe you are a huge Oil fan..

Either way Bos says hell no to this. They woud deal away Savard before Seguin
90% funny, 10% serious.

I actually hate the Oilers. I'm a Wild fan.

Frankly, if Seguin ends up being a bust, Boston would be making out like bandits. Hemsky is amazing. Penner is damn good at what he does. Cogs has talent. Throw those guys in with Savard, Bergeron, Krecji, Lucic, Horton, (not to mention good role players in Recchi, Thorton, and Paile), and you have the best group of forwards in the entire NHL. Now add in Souray (who is still decent, just overpaid) and you have a big, nasty Blueline.

The alternative is that you trade Savard for not much, put in Seguin (who won't be better that Savard for a while), have Bergeron and Krecji play with Sturm and Ryder (plus the disappearing Wheeler). That's a recipe for another disappointing playoff exit.

Then Bergeron becomes a UFA. Maybe even Chara.

If there is anything to learn from the Hawks, Pens, and Ducks is that you must strike while the iron is hot in the cap world.

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Old
07-22-2010, 02:30 PM
  #17
denkiteki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
bostons current depth chart up front has savard/krecji/bergeron/campbell likely playing center... and then horton/sturm/recchi/seguin/lucic taking up 5 of the top 6 wing spots... thorton and paille and maybe marchard being the depth guys.

theres only one spot available and both ryder/wheeler competing for it. so we dont need to worry about replacement players. we are over booked and i account for all these other guys in my cap projections.

i dont add bonuses... we are screwed when bonuses are added... so thats a lost cause.

the trick is to get our lineup bolstered with legal contracts. its hard dollars i need to move if im trying to get the cap complinant.

wheeler may not get 3 mill but its a non issue. the math is ryder/thomas and then souray/khabibulin to balance out...

souray replaces one of bostons 7 dman {hunwick} who is included in the deal to free up 1.4 mill to give to a guy like Bill Guerin. Guerin might need some bonus money to agree... but i can live with that and it will be cap compliant.

wheeler simply moves on cause we cant afford him. If edmonton would do the deal straight up khabibulin/souray for thomas/ryder then im all for that. Id move wheeler elsewhere for pick/prospect return... dump hunwick... and use the hunwick money to sign a replacement for wheeler. It works the same.

as for the future... if Edmonton didnt want to keep thomas, they can return him to boston and they have to take khabibulin. Boston doesnt want to trade thomas... but they sort of have to trade him. hes a very nice guy... good teammate and a very good goalie when healthy. Im sure theyd love to keep him. They cant keep him this year without problems... but they can keep him next year without problems.

that 1.25 mill difference between thomas/khabibulin is huge. Id want souray instead of ryder cause i believe souray would help Boston a lot more. Id what khabibulin instead of thomas cause hes all we can afford. I doubt edmonton would want both thomas and khabibulin.

In a perfect situation... thomas plays great and someone offers edmonton something for him and edmonton says thanks... they are happy. boston has successfully reduced their cost in net by 1.25 for the next 2 years... hopefully khabibulin plays great as a backup... and if he doesnt, maybe boston ships him to the khl in 2 years when rask needs a raise.

the contract is alot less then thomas and khabibulin has been a jerk during his career. if boston has to eventually put him in the AHL, its less nasty then doing that to thomas. less bad pr.

I bet Souray on the same team as Chara would be an awesome sight to behold. Souray actually has been a pretty good dman when healthy... a guy that can play 23-24 mins a night and plays nasty... and shoots the puck amazingly well.

as a number 1 guy... he gets exposed... but chara does that job in boston. Boston can actually tell souray its ok to fight...be a thug back there... cause if he gets a penatly, boston still has their number 1 guy on the ice anyhow.

souray will be a better player on a better team then he was being miscast as the saviour for a bad oiler team the last couple years.
Seguin could play the year in the minors. At least that was the talk during draft/post draft. It all depends on the training camp. And you know what, it doesn't matter if Khab plays in the KHL or whereever he plays, he stays on the books. He can retire and he's still on the books. Thats why Khab is a much higher risk than Thomas. Khab got a DUI early this year like i mentioned while still injuried. He has a lot more question marks than Thomas so you really have to be a big Oiler fan to think the 1.25m saving is all that great. A good backup will cost you that saving and if Khab can't play... guess what you need another backup but he stays on the book. A good backup likely will not be as good as Thomas either. I doubt Boston would put Thomas in the minors during the duration of the contract but Khab might make his way there. (Just to be clear, i'm not saying Thomas would be off the books either but he has less question marks surrounding him and is the better goalie... at least 1.25mil/yr better)

Ryder is a salary dump but like i said, there are other options to dump him and if Boston really needed to, they probably can bury his contract or package him as a salary dump. He's still some what servicable and only has 1 year left in his deal.

I said Souray was good when healthy but in 2 of the last 3 years he had multiple injuries. Besides the hand injury, all of those injuries are more likely to re-occur on him than anyone else. Main reason he has negative trade value. If there isn't doubts on his health, i really doubt he would've cleared waivers. If Souray has another injury filled year, he will once again be a negative value next season. Ryder on the other hand will be off the book next year. Salary's cap hit is also 5.4m vs Ryder's 4mil. Yes if heathly Souray is a bigger asset but again this is a IF and at least 29 teams are concerned with his health. Otherwise explain why in the world he would clear waivers with the demand for a top 4 dman being so high right now?

Also just to add about the competition... if you trade both that are competing for the spot... then what happens to that competition? So if you are suggesting signing someone with the 1.4mil (lets just say anyone) then wouldn't the saving instantly be 1.4mil less? Wheeler isn't signed so nothing comes off the book for him. That still puts Boston over the cap and no room to realistically sign Seguin if he makes the team (or they could take the bonus deferral) but again there is no saving unless you consider Wheeler's salary. So Boston could get the same saving by say... not signing Wheeler and trading his rights for assets?

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