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Old
10-01-2003, 02:35 PM
  #51
TonyTanti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewelly
Lurking for years... on the old board too? Wow, you really are lazy. j/k

BTW, what's a "Roffle"?

rofl but better. It's a thing we do in this baseball league I'm in.

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Old
10-01-2003, 04:18 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TonyTanti
You know, googling and reading the links isn't that hard, I guess it just wasn't "relevant" enough.
Yeah, until you came along nobody had actually read the CBA.

And your summary was absolutely *incorrect*: "Seems to me, he's allowed to play 160 games (reg season and playoffs) and is therefore exempt this year". The 160 is for 18 and 19 year olds, not Allen. This is damn confusing stuff, don't get haughty.

The reason the folks got it wrong was a very subtle point. Most people were saying "3 years OR 60 games", and I don't believe that's correct now. He's got the 68 games, so it must be the 3 years that's making him ineligible.

Take the Sedins. They had played well over 162 games by the end of *last* year, when they were officially still 21 (their birthday is past Sep. 15). The CBA line says "21, 3 years, 80 GP", yet they were exempt last year.

It looks to me like you get 3 years regardless of GP.

*edit* Nope, I was wrong, the Sedins were protected last year. So I still don't understand why Allen is exempt, with 68 GP.

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Old
10-01-2003, 07:42 PM
  #53
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i THINK the probem is everyone read the chart wrong. (i read it wrong, too, til now, i think i got it figured out)

for visual purposes i took out goalies.

SKATERS
(age) (years from NHL signin) (nhl games played)
18 --- 5 ---- 160
19 --- 4 ---- 160
20 --- 3 ---- 160
21 --- 3 ---- 80
22 --- 3 ---- 70
23 --- 3 ---- 60
24 --- 2 ---- 60
25+ ---1


most people (and i did) read: if you are 23 RIGHT NOW, you'd need to be within 3 years since you signed NHL contract and have played 60 or less NHL games.

well, that logic is wrong. because, let's assume you are 18. so using that logic, it would be: if you are 18 RIGHT NOW, you'd need to be within 5 years since you signed NHL contract and have played 160 or less NHL games.

now, there is no way a 18 year old would've played 160 NHL games so obviously that was the wrong way to look at the chart.


a few things need to be clearified.

the AGE really means "your age, when you were drafted"

Bryan Allen was drafted when he was 18 according to rule
"
3. For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player
reaching his eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding
the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft,
both dates included
"
just for argument's sake, you can ask "well, how about players that turn 18 after Sept 15, they are not included anywhere" --- those players won't be eligible for the draft.

so now, since allen was 18 when drafted, we should read the column.


SKATERS
(age) (years from NHL signin) (nhl games played)
18 --- 5 ---- 160

so, he has 5 years since his NHL signing, or if he played 160 or more NHL games, he'd haev to be put on waiver.

note: the only way that 5 years can be changed to 3 is if he played 11 or more NHL games as 18 or 19 year old. which he did not. so he has all 5 years after he was signed.



now, for NEXT year. it does matter whether he was signed at 18 or 19. becausel, he was DRAFTED as 18 year old, but we didn't sign him til he was 19, so we can keep him for 5 years, til he is 24? i am really not sure about this but it is POSSIBLE he could be exampt from next year's waiver if he doesn't play more than 100 NHL games this season and he was signed as a 19 year old. i am not 100% sure i guess we could argue about it a year from now.

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Old
10-02-2003, 01:02 AM
  #54
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Hey, well done!^

You start at the age when Allen signed his first contract... or was drafted... NOT his age now! He must, as Pap figured correctly, still exempt due to lack of games played in the five years. Allen didn't sign his first contract at age 23, he signed at 18 or 19!

Cool.

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Old
10-02-2003, 03:39 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chum
i THINK the probem is everyone read the chart wrong. (i read it wrong, too, til now, i think i got it figured out)

most people (and i did) read: if you are 23 RIGHT NOW, you'd need to be within 3 years since you signed NHL contract and have played 60 or less NHL games.

well, that logic is wrong. because, let's assume you are 18. so using that logic, it would be: if you are 18 RIGHT NOW, you'd need to be within 5 years since you signed NHL contract and have played 160 or less NHL games.
Excellent work. It's the age you first signed a contract, not the age you were drafted though.

http://nhl.com/nhlhq/faq/hockey_ops.html#waivers has a better description than the ones I've seen in the various threads.

So in summary, Allen was 20 when he signed, he had 3 years or 160 games. This is his last year of exemption (2001,2002,2003 drafts), regardless of how many games he plays this year.

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Old
10-02-2003, 05:30 AM
  #56
TonyTanti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Yeah, until you came along nobody had actually read the CBA.

And your summary was absolutely *incorrect*: "Seems to me, he's allowed to play 160 games (reg season and playoffs) and is therefore exempt this year". The 160 is for 18 and 19 year olds, not Allen. This is damn confusing stuff, don't get haughty.

The reason the folks got it wrong was a very subtle point. Most people were saying "3 years OR 60 games", and I don't believe that's correct now. He's got the 68 games, so it must be the 3 years that's making him ineligible.

Take the Sedins. They had played well over 162 games by the end of *last* year, when they were officially still 21 (their birthday is past Sep. 15). The CBA line says "21, 3 years, 80 GP", yet they were exempt last year.

It looks to me like you get 3 years regardless of GP.

*edit* Nope, I was wrong, the Sedins were protected last year. So I still don't understand why Allen is exempt, with 68 GP.
So Chum says the same thing I say and gets a good job and you tell me "not to get haughty"

I don't see what's so "confusing" about finding the age of signing (18 in this case) and reading across a 3 column table, it's really quite simple.

I can't remember if the Sedins signed at 18, I'm thinking not as they went back to Sweden for one year. I think this paragraph explains it.

For the purposes of regular season waivers and the Waiver Draft, the five-year exemption for an 18-year-old skater and four-year exemption for a 19-year-old skater are both reduced to three years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19-year-old playes in 11 games or more. The next two seasons, regardless of whether the skater plays any games in either season, shall count as the second and third years toward satisfying the exemption.

So yes, everyone does get a three year exemption regardless although most never need it as they don't get to the bigs that fast.

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Old
10-02-2003, 07:58 AM
  #57
TonyTanti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan

So in summary, Allen was 20 when he signed, he had 3 years or 160 games. This is his last year of exemption (2001,2002,2003 drafts), regardless of how many games he plays this year.
Boy, thanks for "summarizing" it for us.

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