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Van-Ana (not just Bieksa)

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Old
07-22-2010, 06:07 PM
  #1
defer*
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Van-Ana (not just Bieksa)



Mason Raymond
Kevin Bieksa



Joffrey Lupul
Matt Beleskey
2011 1st


Is it fair value?
Would you like this trade?

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Old
07-22-2010, 06:22 PM
  #2
Unholy
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Maybe take out the first. Some Canucks fans seem to think they can get just a Top 6 forward. Adding Beleskey is pretty good, but I dont like the first going

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07-22-2010, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sevenfold View Post
Maybe take out the first. Some Canucks fans seem to think they can get just a Top 6 forward. Adding Beleskey is pretty good, but I dont like the first going
I think we can get away with a 2nd if he gets 3.5+ like the rumors say. but anything lower and i think we have to overpay a bit.

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Old
07-22-2010, 06:33 PM
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Yeah, take out the first. Then we'll have a deal.

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Old
07-22-2010, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alx83 View Post
Yeah, take out the first. Then we'll have a deal.
then they wont do it haha. they can dump bieksa for a beleskey type player somewhere else and lupul is kind of a downgrade from raymond.

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Old
07-22-2010, 06:44 PM
  #6
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the Canucks wouldn't do it anyways... it makes no sense to replace Raymond with a player not as good, who makes more than Raymond is expected to get.

The Canucks are not a rebuilding team... so adding 1st round picks or prospects isn't going to convince them to downgrade their current roster.

realistically, any deal here will be just for Bieksa... IMO all it'll take is a 2nd round + mid-level type prospect (no salary)... moving Raymond downgrades a contending lineup, where he's an excellent fit with the current team and team needs... if he's moved it'll be strictly for salary cap purposes, in which case a guy like Lupul (making $4.25mill) makes zero sense. The Canucks are better off just keeping Raymond, who's not likely to get a contract higher than that anyways.

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Old
07-22-2010, 06:59 PM
  #7
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Why? What is the need for Raymond?

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Old
07-22-2010, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
the Canucks wouldn't do it anyways... it makes no sense to replace Raymond with a player not as good, who makes more than Raymond is expected to get.

The Canucks are not a rebuilding team... so adding 1st round picks or prospects isn't going to convince them to downgrade their current roster.

realistically, any deal here will be just for Bieksa... IMO all it'll take is a 2nd round + mid-level type prospect (no salary)... moving Raymond downgrades a contending lineup, where he's an excellent fit with the current team and team needs... if he's moved it'll be strictly for salary cap purposes, in which case a guy like Lupul (making $4.25mill) makes zero sense. The Canucks are better off just keeping Raymond, who's not likely to get a contract higher than that anyways.
most contending teams make trades at deadlines to make them better. you are telling me you would have no intrest in a 1st that could be used to make you better at the deadline?

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Old
07-22-2010, 07:13 PM
  #9
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It doesn't work for either team. No point for the Canucks to give up Raymond, and the Ducks don't want or need him.

It'd be smarter for us to just make a package of Mikkelson and a 2nd for Bieksa and then sign a cheap FA forward if needed.

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Old
07-22-2010, 08:29 PM
  #10
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I don't know what it is, but I never bought the Raymond hype. Yes he had a pretty good year last season, but I still don't buy it.

I guess the point is I would never pay proper value for him.

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Old
07-22-2010, 08:50 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defer View Post
most contending teams make trades at deadlines to make them better. you are telling me you would have no intrest in a 1st that could be used to make you better at the deadline?
no, I would have no interest in a 1st to upgrade at the deadline, if it meant downgrading right now.

What we have with Raymond is a perfect fit for our team needs. He has chemistry on his line, plays in every situation, is productive and brings a lot of speed, which is what Gillis has been trying to build in Vancouver.

Why would you downgrade on a player that fits now, to acquire a more expensive player that doesn't bring the same intangibles that make Raymond that perfect fit, just so you can add a piece to upgrade your lineup again during the season?

not to mention, you haven't really thought this trade through, since the trade you proposed would have the Canucks at the salary cap anyways, and would have no room to upgrade at the deadline.

but in the end even if you have that cap space, wouldn't it make more sense to just keep Raymond (who's cap hit isn't going to be any higher than Lupul's anyways), and just use your own 1st rounder to upgrade the lineup - and have a better lineup in the process? or they could use one of several prospects they have (Schroeder? Shirokov? Rodin? Connauton? Sauve? etc).

bottom line, unless you're getting back a better player than Raymond at a comparable salary (assuming he gets around $3-3.5mill) that fits the current structure, it makes no sense to move him.

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Old
07-23-2010, 02:25 AM
  #12
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No from Ducks. Would rather trade something minor for Bieksa alone. Raymond brings nothing we need.

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Old
07-24-2010, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostly Clueless View Post
No from Ducks. Would rather trade something minor for Bieksa alone. Raymond brings nothing we need.
Raymond isn't going anywhere. Hes 24 and he just had a great season. The guy pks also.

The Canucks offense was their strength last year, we already dropped Demitra (not a big deal but still an offensive player) and I am not 100% confident Hodgson or Schroeder crack the line up this year.

Bieksa for a 2nd, good deal both ways, Canucks can use this 2nd round pick as a bargaining chip at trade deadline.

Ducks fans will soon learn to hate Bieksa. (however it is a contract year for him)

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Old
07-24-2010, 08:13 PM
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We really just need a tougher guy that can hog up ice time.

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Old
07-24-2010, 08:42 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outraged666 View Post
Bieksa for a 2nd, good deal both ways,

Ducks fans will soon learn to hate Bieksa.
Great logic there.

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Old
07-25-2010, 12:59 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlyingV View Post
Great logic there.
You have to watch him 82 games a year to understand.

Edit: Hes your favourite player one game, than hes costing you goals in game 6 against the Blackhawks.

Used to be the biggest Bieksa fan, but yes I did contradict myself. Take him off our hands please.


Last edited by David Booth Fan: 07-25-2010 at 01:11 AM.
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Old
07-25-2010, 01:52 AM
  #17
Slapshot_11
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This is all you need to know about Bieksa's defensive game




He will probably get traded after the Raymond hearing when we know exactly where our teams cap stands

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Old
07-25-2010, 02:03 AM
  #18
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That's unacceptable! No one should lose sight of the ****ing puck, what an absolutely terrible player! He does not belong in the NHL!

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Old
07-25-2010, 03:02 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outraged666 View Post
You have to watch him 82 games a year to understand.

Edit: Hes your favourite player one game, than hes costing you goals in game 6 against the Blackhawks.

Used to be the biggest Bieksa fan, but yes I did contradict myself. Take him off our hands please.
A 2nd round pick isn't a return for "take this guy off my hands" type of player.

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Old
07-25-2010, 05:10 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
This is all you need to know about Bieksa's defensive game




He will probably get traded after the Raymond hearing when we know exactly where our teams cap stands
Ha ha that is pretty funny ,

though I daresay that isn't a good indication of one's defensive awareness.

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Old
07-25-2010, 05:19 AM
  #21
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NFTO already explained why this doesn't make sense (taking Lupul when Raymond is cheaper and better? The hell?).

But on top of that, I don't think Bieksa is going to end up in Anaheim. Anaheim just doesn't have the player we need. Chipchura comes close but then there's no real value to the trade.

I see him going to MTL for Moen or elsewhere in the East for a big body hitter that has some semblance of hands.

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Old
07-25-2010, 06:32 AM
  #22
Unholy
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After a few days hes starting to sound like a new Ryan Whitney...do not want

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Old
07-25-2010, 07:43 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Sevenfold View Post
After a few days hes starting to sound like a new Ryan Whitney...do not want
Whitney does not fight!

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Old
07-25-2010, 11:14 AM
  #24
defer*
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Originally Posted by Ducksforcup View Post
Ha ha that is pretty funny ,

though I daresay that isn't a good indication of one's defensive awareness.
everyone has had moments like this if you have played hockey or a catcher in baseball or something liek that. it happens

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