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Was acquiring Meszaros a good or bad idea?

View Poll Results: Was acquiring Meszaros a good or bad idea?
It was a good idea 48 39.34%
It was a bad idea 35 28.69%
Mediocre idea 39 31.97%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-22-2010, 07:29 PM
  #51
DenverBoone
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Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
No offense but Meszaros was hardly our best defenseman. From December on Lundin was the 2nd best player on the roster and Ohlund was consistently better than Meszaros, Hedman also had his moments too. At best I would call Meszaros our 3rd best defenseman. Check the Lightning gdts last year and you will find more negative Mez comments than anybody excluding maybe Tanguay. The shoulder excuse might fly but he injured it 52 games into the season and it's not like he was playing average hockey then.

And I haven't seen his comments but if he wanted to put Ranger who is/was great on offense but horrible in his own end as a shutdown defenseman then Tocchet is a worse HC than I thought.
What a buzzkill.

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Old
07-22-2010, 07:34 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
No offense but Meszaros was hardly our best defenseman. From December on Lundin was the 2nd best player on the roster and Ohlund was consistently better than Meszaros, Hedman also had his moments too. At best I would call Meszaros our 3rd best defenseman. Check the Lightning gdts last year and you will find more negative Mez comments than anybody excluding maybe Tanguay. The shoulder excuse might fly but he injured it 52 games into the season and it's not like he was playing average hockey then.

And I haven't seen his comments but if he wanted to put Ranger who is/was great on offense but horrible in his own end as a shutdown defenseman then Tocchet is a worse HC than I thought.
No offense, but with an extremely poor defensive unit, an ownership in disarray, and a coaching faction that was fairly clueless, I really take most of what happened in Tampa and throw it out the window.

We'll take Meszaros and go from what we see in camp.

There are far too many factors involved in his past both in Tampa and in Ottawa to get an accurate reading on him.

All we know is that he can succeed spectacularly when put in a situation where he is helped. In Philadelphia, he will have tons of support, and he will be in a solid environment. I mean, getting support both on-ice and in the locker room from Pronger and Timonen will only help as well.

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07-22-2010, 07:56 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
No offense, but with an extremely poor defensive unit, an ownership in disarray, and a coaching faction that was fairly clueless, I really take most of what happened in Tampa and throw it out the window.

We'll take Meszaros and go from what we see in camp.

There are far too many factors involved in his past both in Tampa and in Ottawa to get an accurate reading on him.

All we know is that he can succeed spectacularly when put in a situation where he is helped. In Philadelphia, he will have tons of support, and he will be in a solid environment. I mean, getting support both on-ice and in the locker room from Pronger and Timonen will only help as well.
The only player who I could understand using the ownership as an excuse is Lecavalier and that's just because they tried to trade him weekly. It didn't seem to bother Stamkos, Downie, Ohlund, Lundin, etc. But we agree on the coach, Tocchet is the worst coach in franchise history which says a lot considering we've had Melrose, Ludzik etc.

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07-22-2010, 08:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Saint Patrick View Post
The only player who I could understand using the ownership as an excuse is Lecavalier and that's just because they tried to trade him weekly. It didn't seem to bother Stamkos, Downie, Ohlund, Lundin, etc. But we agree on the coach, Tocchet is the worst coach in franchise history which says a lot considering we've had Melrose, Ludzik etc.
Your organization was in COMPLETE disarray.

I don't take much stock in whatever happened in Tampa over the last two years.

It's been one disaster after another.

I never hated or liked Tampa Bay one way or the other, so I do mean this when I say that Yzerman and Gagne have some success together.

That said, your defense still looks bad. I understand your need for secondary scoring, but you really do need to do something about your blueline. Meszaros was a step in the wrong direction for your team but was probably the right decision in the end. The split benefits both parties in a sense.

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07-22-2010, 08:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Sklodo View Post
Agreed. We could've signed Michalek for as much as Meszaros or spent another $250,000 and signed Volchenkov.
Just because we might've had the money doesn't mean we could've have signed either of those guys. We already have two top defensemen in Pronger and Timonen, so neither of them would be a guaranteed number one or two.

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07-22-2010, 08:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That said, your defense still looks bad. I understand your need for secondary scoring, but you really do need to do something about your blueline. Meszaros was a step in the wrong direction for your team but was probably the right decision in the end. The split benefits both parties in a sense.
With Yzerman at the helm, doesn't it concern you a great deal that even HE didn't want Meszaros? It concerns the holy hell out of me.

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Old
07-22-2010, 08:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Disagree. I think we're going to love both Meszaros and Zherdev before the year is out. The 2003 draft was the strongest ever. Carter was 11. Richards 24th.

Zherdev was #4 for a reason. He has that level of talent, and it's not like he hasn't produced at all in the NHL, as others have pointed out.

Meszaros is a player I've always liked. Big, fast, strong, skilled, competitive.

Both guys are young and ready to blossom.

People on here complain about young D and their growing pains all the time, but Carle and Coburn proved they have it. Meszaros does too. Zherdev is going to be a star for us in a strong lineup.
I kind of like Meszaros overall but I just don't think the manner in which he was acquired puts him in a fair position, that is one disadvantage added to the two he already has of adjusting to a new team and overcoming underperformance. Calming down and thinking about it now, I also tend to think that Gagne was going to go regardless and now Meszaros is the guy that replaces him going forward in terms of the salary structure. I guess it could be worse but like I said I just see him having a lot to prove and it's a tough town for someone to go through major adjustments in.

Zherdev has LOADS of talent, however I don't think draft position six or seven years after the fact means anything at all. All he has proven to this point is that despite his talent, he cannot hold a job. In Columbus, OK, several players had issues but have any of them proven Hitchcock wrong? Other than getting more ice time, it's not like Zherdev or Brule has broken out big time. Zherdev did OK for the Rangers, he did OK in the KHL and no one was itching to commit to him now. If he were that ready, why didn't any Russian teams make him a big offer at least?

Like I said, maybe he is a nouveau Kovalev and the Flyers will be like the Pens were for Kovie, but I have my doubts.

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Old
07-22-2010, 09:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
With Yzerman at the helm, doesn't it concern you a great deal that even HE didn't want Meszaros? It concerns the holy hell out of me.
Not really.

He's a well-respected manager who is more than capable of turning an organization into a legitimate one. That said, I don't put his decision to heart.

There are far too many factors that were likely involved with the Meszaros dump (and we can call it a dump at this point) than just talent.

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Old
07-22-2010, 09:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
With Yzerman at the helm, doesn't it concern you a great deal that even HE didn't want Meszaros? It concerns the holy hell out of me.
I think the move is more about asset management then talent. Since we aquired Meszaros there have been numerous posts about not spending 4M on a third pairing defenseman. I don't think Yzerman wanted to do that either and with Hedman, Lundin, Ohlund, Ranger and now Kubina all in the fold it really makes little sense to keep Meszaros at 4M.

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07-22-2010, 09:14 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I think the move is more about asset management then talent. Since we aquired Meszaros there have been numerous posts about not spending 4M on a third pairing defenseman. I don't think Yzerman wanted to do that either and with Hedman, Lundin, Ohlund, Ranger and now Kubina all in the fold it really makes little sense to keep Meszaros at 4M.
And like any GM, he'd want to fill his team with players he picked. Not to say that the whole team is his own hand-picked roster, but when I think Yzerman, the first name that comes to mind is certainly not Meszaros. Again, that has nothing to do with Meszaros' talent.

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07-22-2010, 09:57 PM
  #61
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it was a bad idea for many reasons. It forced Gagne to be moved for much less because everyone knew the Flyers were so close to the cap because they used so much cap space getting Meszaros. They could of given up less because Meszaros is an overpaid dman.
and lastly...
They don't need him. They could of just signed O'Donnell and used Bartulis with him for a perfectly acceptable third pairing and they could of used the money to sign a good goalie.

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07-22-2010, 10:00 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I say good move. Meszaros has the potential to be an absolute steal if he plays the way he did when he was in Ottawa.
Meszaros is going to be playing with what was already one of the best defenses in the league - that should certainly do something positive for his career.

Why does everybody assume he will be playing on the 3rd pairing? Isn't he better than Coburn?

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07-22-2010, 10:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Sklodo View Post
Agreed. We could've signed Michalek for as much as Meszaros or spent another $250,000 and signed Volchenkov.
Volchenkov would not want to play 3d line minutes.

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07-22-2010, 10:30 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Meszaros is going to be playing with what was already one of the best defenses in the league - that should certainly do something positive for his career.

Why does everybody assume he will be playing on the 3rd pairing? Isn't he better than Coburn?
Ottawa Meszaros>Last 6 months Coburn>>Meszaros>Carle>Start of 2009-10 Coburn

That's about roughly what it comes down to.

Going into next year I expect Coburn>Meszaros>Carle.

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07-22-2010, 10:33 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Ottawa Meszaros>Last 6 months Coburn>>Meszaros>Carle>Start of 2009-10 Coburn

That's about roughly what it comes down to.

Going into next year I expect Coburn>Meszaros>Carle.
I think it will be between Meszaros and Coburn. Didn't Meszaros had a serious shoulder injury a year ago?

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07-22-2010, 10:40 PM
  #66
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good idea.

so our problem in the cup finals, chicago had more scoring depth, and our 3rd pairing D, was not good enough to hold the fort. we managed to improve our defense as a whole, quite a bit. as per taking it on the chin in regards to forwards, we resigned the major pieces, lost gagne, picked up shelly, a genuine heavyweight, zherdev. we'll just have to see how these guys work in lavvies system. we'll be fine.

but the way we manage salary cap, is a problem. short term, we'll scrap by. we always are an organization that sits as close as possible to the max.

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07-22-2010, 10:56 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I think it will be between Meszaros and Coburn. Didn't Meszaros had a serious shoulder injury a year ago?
February 4th 2009, he tore his left shoulder labrum. It ended his 2008-09 season.

He also got hit with a puck in the face, much like Coburn if I recall correctly.

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07-22-2010, 11:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by daynus View Post
so our problem in the cup finals, chicago had more scoring depth, and our 3rd pairing D, was not good enough to hold the fort. we managed to improve our defense as a whole, quite a bit. as per taking it on the chin in regards to forwards, we resigned the major pieces, lost gagne, picked up shelly, a genuine heavyweight, zherdev. we'll just have to see how these guys work in lavvies system. we'll be fine.

but the way we manage salary cap, is a problem. short term, we'll scrap by. we always are an organization that sits as close as possible to the max.
The reality is that their D wasn't good enough to hold our offense either.

Our D is still something incredible even without a legitimate 3rd pairing.

Goalie should have been the real attack of this offseason, though I'm not complaining about the Meszaros trade. He will be a big boost to our defense next year and in years to come.

It's just that the difference between the Blackhawks and Flyers came down to execution. As I've said before, it came down to not hitting the wide open net or not making the easy save.

Those are mistakes (well maybe not in Leighton's case since he's not that good) that are kind of flukey. That's the way the puck bounces I guess.

Chicago, the Stanley Cup Champions, were not significantly better than us even with our god awful third pairing and our terrible goaltending, if they were better than us at all. That series could have gone either way. That said, they did not have more scoring depth than us, nor did they have a better defense.

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Old
07-23-2010, 02:33 AM
  #69
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I don't necessarily believe it was a good or bad idea.

Bad for the cap.
Good for having a ridiculous defense.

What can you do?

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07-23-2010, 09:39 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by GilbertsGuns View Post
it was a bad idea for many reasons. It forced Gagne to be moved for much less because everyone knew the Flyers were so close to the cap because they used so much cap space getting Meszaros. They could of given up less because Meszaros is an overpaid dman.
and lastly...
They don't need him. They could of just signed O'Donnell and used Bartulis with him for a perfectly acceptable third pairing and they could of used the money to sign a good goalie.
We need to dispense with this idea that acquiring Meszaros made moving Gagne necessary. Clearly they had decided to move Gagne already, before they acquired Mesz and signed Zherdev. It was just a matter of finding the right place for Gagne.

I agree that they could have just signed O'Donnell to play with Oskars, but they wanted to really improve the D without significantly hurting the offense - which they did by signing Zherdev.

I'd still love to see a better goalie signed, but I'm resigning myself to the fact they might not....

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07-23-2010, 10:04 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Our D is still something incredible even without a legitimate 3rd pairing.
Even so, playing Pronger, Timonen, Carle and Coburn 25+ minutes a night was not an ideal situation. You could tell in the finals that all four were beginning to suck wind from playing so much. The nice thing about having a really solid third pairing is that the ice time will be distributed much more evenly so that guys like Pronger and Timonen aren't playing nearly 30 minutes a night. Having a solid third pairing that can play 18 to 20 minutes a night is the most relief that guys like Pronger and Timonen can ask for. It also means fresher legs in the playoffs and more effective play from the most important players on the ice. It's a win all around.

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07-23-2010, 10:35 AM
  #72
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It would have made more sense to trade Gagne directly for Meszaros and a 2nd pick......getting Walker back was taking back actually more money than we had invested in Gagne alone, anyone calling this a salary dump is missing the bigger picture.

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07-23-2010, 10:36 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Ottawa Meszaros>Last 6 months Coburn>>Meszaros>Carle>Start of 2009-10 Coburn

That's about roughly what it comes down to.

Going into next year I expect Coburn>Meszaros>Carle.
Last 6 months Coburn? Haha. He had about 3 weeks of the regular season where he played competent and then round 3 he played well and 4 he was pretty good.

Carle outplayed both Coburn and Meszaros by a wide margin last year... Gagne scored the game 4 OT winner against Bos, what about the sick pass that allowed him to basically deflect it effortlessly into the net? How about game 5 when Carle tied a franchise record for assists in a game? Game 3 against Chi when he fed Giroux for the overtime game winner? Game 82 when he was the only person able to put the puck past the league's best goalie who was playing most likely the best game of his career?

Carle stepped it up all year and even more so in big spots, people jerk off Coburn for his play in the Finals, that -8 sure does get me hard, too, guys.

The rankings from '09-'10 goes like this:
Carle>>Meszaros>Coburn

The rankings for their careers goes like this:
Meszaros>Carle>>Coburn

The rankings of their natural talent goes like this:
Coburn>>Meszaros>Carle

Talent gets you **** all in this world except on this board of prospect huggers that think everyone will fulfill their potential to its fullest, news flash, 4 seasons into Coburn's career and he is still a ****ing moron.

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Old
07-23-2010, 10:38 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Carle outplayed both Coburn and Meszaros by a wide margin last year...
Carle's ass was saved by Pronger numerous times - he was clearly the beneficiary of playing with a future hall of famer. He had some good games, but he had a lot of brutal games too.

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07-23-2010, 10:42 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Carle's ass was saved by Pronger numerous times - he was clearly the beneficiary of playing with a future hall of famer. He had some good games, but he had a lot of brutal games too.
Of course he benefitted from playing with Pronger, Carle is an offensive minded defenseman, he needs someone to anchor him when he pinches. In '08-'09 Carle had to alter his game dramatically because Coburn was not that backstop that he needed.

Btw, how did playing with an all star defenseman work out for Coburn the last few seasons? If I recall correctly, he even made Timonen look bad, that is impressive. He actually didn't start playing semi-competent until he was demoted to the 3rd line and didn't have to match up against talented lines, which is right where he will be this upcoming season.

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